The Paterno Situation

[Macho Uno]

Don't get my wrong, I think Sandusky should fry. But I think JoPa is a scapegoat. The way I'm understanding the situation, it's sounds like Paterno never saw anything, heard about it, and reported it. If my neighbor told me my other neighbor killed someone I didn't know would I get in trouble for not reporting it?? I heard about OJ and didn't report that. If this were JB I would drive to Cuse and burn down a building.

 

[PeteCalvin]

Oh Lord

 

[pfister1]

You should probably take the time to read the Grand Jury Presentment before you come to JoePa's defense. At best he chose to look the other way when it was repeatedly brought to his attention that a man who he hired, supervised and was probably a close friend of was bringing young boys to the PSU football complex so he could rape them.

JoePA is lucky that he is being allowed to slink off in shame considering what he allowed to go on. You can always pass the buck to someone else and say it wasn't your responsibility to do something, however JoePA built his career and reputation on not being that type of person. Clearly everything he stood for was a lie.

 

[StopCoolio]

Please read the following 23 pages and report back your findings.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/feature?section=news&id=8421115

 

[suthrills]

Don't get my wrong, I think Sandusky should fry. But I think JoPa is a scapegoat. The way I'm understanding the situation, it's sounds like Paterno never saw anything, heard about it, and reported it. If my neighbor told me my other neighbor killed someone I didn't know would I get in trouble for not reporting it?? I heard about OJ and didn't report that. If this were JB I would drive to Cuse and burn down a building.

Are you serious or did you write this post just to get a reaction?

 

[Macho Uno]

I will fully admit I have not read or heard all of the facts, but here is what I'm not understanding: Guy 1 sees it and does not report it to the police, tells guy 2, guy 2 does not report it to the police. Guy 2 loses his job and nothing happens to guy 1. Add in that the authorites knew about it in 98 and didn't prosecute... How is JP the one getting fried??? And how come no one is banging down Sandusky's door?

 

[bballbeadle]

I just read 2/3 of it and couldn't take it any more. We have to ask ourselves: what would we do? We like to think we know the answer.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Except there is a statutory reporting requirement which likelrequires u to see to of that some authority is called by u or your boss. They usually only requìre that u reasonably suspect that a child has been or might be in danger of being harmed. Depending who u report to it might even be anonymous. As an employee of the school he was likely mandated to make the report when the GA came to him

Sent from my Vortex using Tapatalk

 

[cuseincincy]

Don't get my wrong, I think Sandusky should fry. But I think JoPa is a scapegoat. The way I'm understanding the situation, it's sounds like Paterno never saw anything, heard about it, and reported it. If my neighbor told me my other neighbor killed someone I didn't know would I get in trouble for not reporting it?? I heard about OJ and didn't report that. If this were JB I would drive to Cuse and burn down a building.

How about this frame of reference...you are the manager of an apartment complex. You are told by the custodian that he saw one of your tenants rape a kid in your building's laundry room. You report it to your boss at the management company that operates the complex. And then for the next 9 yerars you see that same tenant walking around the apartment complex where children and others live and play. Ya think it might be your ethical or moral responsibility to find out what was done or if the police were ever called? You think you might think to ask, "what's he doing here?" Joe Pa is guilty of failing morally and ethically. I feel a little for Joe Pa only because I believe he is a victim of his own ignorance. He was an old man that should not have been in charge of such a large enterprise as Penn State Football. He was no longer competent to perform all of the responsibilities of that job.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

Where is the "dislike" button?

 

[pfister1]

I will fully admit I have not read or heard all of the facts, but here is what I'm not understanding: Guy 1 sees it and does not report it to the police, tells guy 2, guy 2 does not report it to the police. Guy 2 loses his job and nothing happens to guy 1. Add in that the authorites knew about it in 98 and didn't prosecute... How is JP the one getting fried??? And how come no one is banging down Sandusky's door?

I don't know why McQueary is being sheltered, clearly there is more here that has not yet been released or come to light. But as far as JoePa goes......he is the Big Enchilada. As far as the football program goes, no make that the entire Athletic Program, check that...... maybe the entire University, he is the face. If the Face of your University chooses to take the low road and allow young boys to be raped in order to preserve his own reputation how do you not see how a sane BOT can do anything but say we can no longer allow that person to be in a position to be the face of our University.

How could they allow someone who was more concerned about how disclosure would impact his football program and his personal reputation than he was about preventing youngsters from being raped, continue to be held out by the University as someone who should be looked up to, admired and be allowed to be in a position of trust and act as a leader of the young men playing football at PSU. The only way the BOT could do this would be to say "Puck we don't care about right and wrong and teaching values or morality to our students, we only care that we continue to take in the money that PSU football generates...if a few lives are lost in preserving that revenue so be it."

 

[AZOrange]

Don't get my wrong, I think Sandusky should fry. But I think JoPa is a scapegoat. The way I'm understanding the situation, it's sounds like Paterno never saw anything, heard about it, and reported it. If my neighbor told me my other neighbor killed someone I didn't know would I get in trouble for not reporting it?? I heard about OJ and didn't report that. If this were JB I would drive to Cuse and burn down a building.

Difference between a legal obligation and a moral obligation. Are you legally obligated to report? No. But morally? I am no criminal expert but from what I understand most investigations start because of third party informants. I think you could make a clear case that JoePa had a moral obligation to do more. I think you could also "stretch" it to argue he might have had a legal one too (if he knew others were not following the law).

 

[arbitragegls]

This is document you need to read or at least watch espn for 30 minutes to get up to date. Initially it appeared that JOEPA did what was binding from a legal perspective in that he did report to the AD what asst told him. However, each hour it gets worse...It seems the university covered up the actions of Sandusky and helped in retire at the age of 55 to leave employ of university...but still provided him access etc to facilities.
Question 1 goes to moral actions vs. legal only...
Question 2 goes to what did JOEPA know; when did he know it and what were his actions...
From the time JOEPA reported what he heard...to after that fact...several more children were abused...it keeps getting worse...

There is no longer any way to shield Paterno from this mess...

 

[pfister1]

Difference between a legal obligation and a moral obligation. Are you legally obligated to report? No. But morally? I am no criminal expert but from what I understand most investigations start because of third party informants. I think you could make a clear case that JoePa had a moral obligation to do more. I think you could also "stretch" it to argue he might have had a legal one too (if he knew others were not following the law).

That doesn't even begin to touch on the civil liability he has allowed to be created for the University and Commonwealth because he chose to do the minimum (although my guess is that we'll eventually find out that his report consisted of telling Curley and Schultz to make this disappear), rather than step up and put an end to what Sandusky was doing.

The University doesn't need to be looking at whether JoePA did anything criminal, all they need to do is look at the civil exposure his decision to do the minimum has created for them. All of those guys Joe Pa, Spanier, Curley, Schultz and likely several/many others have made decisions that will likely take decades for PSU to get itself out from under.

 

[Flacusian]

I read the entire grand jury report and there can be no mistake that JoPa should have become more involved and his inaction is tantamount to becoming an accessory to the crime. Can there be anything more egregious than using your stature to rape young kids? Paterno was clearly aware that Sandusky represented a clear and present danger to these young boys and yet he allowed the facillities of the Football program and the University to be used as devices which helped to perpetuate the crimes against these young boys. When you are in a position of leadership you are supposed to LEAD. And lead by example. Paterno held the responsibility to monitor and oversee the individuals who were subordinate to him in the Football program. If you get so much as even a whiff of the type of things that reportedly were going on you MUST FOLLOW THROUGH and insure that those responsible are held accountable under the law and act in such a manner to insure that those types of things NEVER HAPPPEN AGAIN. Shame on Joe Paterno and all those who stood by while these young boys were raped and sodomized by this depraved excuse for a human being.

 

[AZOrange]

That doesn't even begin to touch on the civil liability he has allowed to be created for the University and Commonwealth because he chose to do the minimum (although my guess is that we'll eventually find out that his report consisted of telling Curley and Schultz to make this disappear), rather than step up and put an end to what Sandusky was doing.

The University doesn't need to be looking at whether JoePA did anything criminal, all they need to do is look at the civil exposure his decision to do the minimum has created for them. All of those guys Joe Pa, Spanier, Curley, Schultz and likely several/many others have made decisions that will likely take decades for PSU to get itself out from under.

Oh God. PSU is up stuff-creek without a paddle on the civil side.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't know if Paterno is guilty of breaking any laws, but he is absolutely in the wrong and 100% deserved to be fired.

The fact that McQueary is still coaching is troublesome to me. He deserves to be fired more than Paterno. He actually saw the crime happen.

But Paterno is culpable as well. Where did this idea that you only have to tell your boss about a crime (especially a crime as heinous as this one)? What about the cops? First thing I do is try and get McQueary to call the cops, since he is the actual witness, but there is no way I don't call the cops if he doesn't. Especially if you're Joe Paterno, who may have more clout in that town that anyone may have in any town in the country.

He, along with everyone else who knew, was complicit in a predator raping young children. Throw in the investigation in 1998, and Sandusky's retirement in 99, at the age of 55, and it's exceedingly likely Paterno and the other members of the PSU brass were well aware of what Sandusky was doing before 2002 and continued to let it happen, as long as it was away from Penn State. (Which of course they couldn't enforce anyway.) MCQueary saw Sandusky on campus in later years, with kids. What the hell did he think was going on?

If this happened at SU, I would turn on Boeheim in a second. This is unforgivable stuff. And I don't want to hear that Paterno was too old to know any better. This was 2002, he was 75, and there were allegations in 98, and likely well before that as well. Furthermore, if you're competent enough to be the highest paid employee of the state, then you're competent enough to know raping children is bad. (To say the least)

 

[AZOrange]

But Paterno is culpable as well. Where did this idea that you only have to tell your boss about a crime (especially a crime as heinous as this one)? What about the cops? First thing I do is try and get McQueary to call the cops, since he is the actual witness, but there is no way I don't call the cops if he doesn't. Especially if you're Joe Paterno, who may have more clout in that town that anyone may have in any town in the country.

If this happened at SU, I would turn on Boeheim in a second. This is unforgivable stuff. And I don't want to hear that Paterno was too old to know any better. This was 2002, he was 75, and there were allegations in 98, and likely well before that as well. Furthermore, if you're competent enough to be the highest paid employee of the state, then you're competent enough to know raping children is bad. (To say the least)

I agree on McQ. I dont get it. I think there is alot more to this story than we have heard.

As for JoePa not calling the cops initially, I dont think he did much wrong at the outset first reporting it to his superiors. The way I read the PA statute and think about corporate hierarchy issues I think this is probably the right way to do it (initially). When Paterno found out nothing was done, or nothing would be done, he should have immediately changed course. The fact of the matter is, the legal advice up the chain got really bad after Paterno made his report to the AD and SVP. This is not necessarily his fault as he is following protocol and I can understand why he did that. I cannot understand why he didnt do more after.

I dont know why, but JB just doesnt strike me as a guy that would put up with that nonsense at all. I know, in my heart, he would have done the right thing.

 

[pfister1]

I agree on McQ. I dont get it. I think there is alot more to this story than we have heard.

As for JoePa not calling the cops initially, I dont think he did much wrong at the outset first reporting it to his superiors. The way I read the PA statute and think about corporate hierarchy issues I think this is probably the right way to do it (initially). When Paterno found out nothing was done, or nothing would be done, he should have immediately changed course. The fact of the matter is, the legal advice up the chain got really bad after Paterno made his report to the AD and SVP. This is not necessarily his fault as he is following protocol and I can understand why he did that. I cannot understand why he didnt do more after.

I dont know why, but JB just doesnt strike me as a guy that would put up with that nonsense at all. I know, in my heart, he would have done the right thing.

You are still giving him the benefit of the doubt in assuming that he truly wanted something to be done. From everything I understand about PSU, JoePa and State College, JoePA runs the show there. If he felt the incident witnessed by McQueary should have reached the ears of the proper authorities he would have made that happen. Instead he went up the line because he wanted to commence damage control measures. He is/was in control, not the feeble Octagenarian that some are trying to portray now.

I firmly believe that he went to Curly and Schultz because he wanted help in engineering the cover up or wanted to bury the incident, not because he thought that that was the way to stop Sandusky.

 

[Knicks411]

As for JoePa not calling the cops initially, I dont think he did much wrong at the outset first reporting it to his superiors. The way I read the PA statute and think about corporate hierarchy issues I think this is probably the right way to do it (initially). When Paterno found out nothing was done, or nothing would be done, he should have immediately changed course. The fact of the matter is, the legal advice up the chain got really bad after Paterno made his report to the AD and SVP. This is not necessarily his fault as he is following protocol and I can understand why he did that. I cannot understand why he didnt do more after.

I guess I just don't get it; just because it happened on school property he doesn't have to call the cops right away? (I admit I don't know much about PA law or whatever, but I can't imagine if Joe Paterno of all people called the cops to report a sexual assault of a child they'd ask him if he went to his superiors first)

But even accepting that, you know Sandusky has a charity where he's around kids all the time. Is it really hard to connect the dots?

I dont know why, but JB just doesnt strike me as a guy that would put up with that nonsense at all. I know, in my heart, he would have done the right thing.

I don't think I can ever say that about anyone, especially someone I've never meant.

If this had happened at somewhere other than Penn State, I can promise you all Penn State people would be saying the same thing about Paterno you are about JB. "I know JoePa woulda done the right thing". And obviously, he failed.

That isn't meant as a shot at JB, I'm not saying I would expect him to cover something like this up. Just pointing out we never really know.

I firmly believe that he went to Curly and Schultz because he wanted help in engineering the cover up or wanted to bury the incident, not because he thought that that was the way to stop Sandusky.

I think this is especially true because it's very likely they covered things up in 1998 when the first allegations came out. They were probably already in too deep at that point.

 

[AZOrange]

You are still giving him the benefit of the doubt in assuming that he truly wanted something to be done. From everything I understand about PSU, JoePa and State College, JoePA runs the show there. If he felt the incident witnessed by McQueary should have reached the ears of the proper authorities he would have made that happen. Instead he went up the line because he wanted to commence damage control measures. He is/was in control, not the feeble Octagenarian that some are trying to portray now.

I firmly believe that he went to Curly and Schultz because he wanted help in engineering the cover up or wanted to bury the incident, not because he thought that that was the way to stop Sandusky.

Well I have to have hope in the overall goodness of people (Paterno included). Here is a guy that dedicated his whole life to something, was pretty clean the whole way and has a family and 17 grandkids. I truly believe his initial response, at least as he thought it through, was the right way to do things. And being 75 at the time, I am not sure he was all there honestly. I really dont think he understood what is/was happening. Even now, he seems so "out of it". It is a sad ending for him, but I have no doubt that he is torn up right now, realizing he made a poor decision.

Please dont interpret this as a defense of Paterno. He deserves what he gets and his actions were ineffective and he should have fixed that. 9 years and countless kids were ruined because of that.

I do however believe wholeheartedly that Curley, Schultz and maybe even the President were in on the cover up. If you read the transcripts it sounds like they cut paterno out of the decisions. at least what i could read.

 

[AZOrange]

But even accepting that, you know Sandusky has a charity where he's around kids all the time. Is it really hard to connect the dots?

I am not saying that he didnt have the responsibility to call the cops. He did at some point. But I think schools, companies, etc., put reporting structures in place to get to the bottom of issues so that the people in charge make that call ultimately. The statute clearly imposes a duty on the admins at the school (especially schultz) with informing police. I guess what I am saying is that the way this happened initially seems to be the way most groups work. I would have expected that McQ, Paterno and the admins would have had a meeting and they would have decided that (a) they would call the police and (b) McQ would give them the story. If that had happened it would have been fine and Paterno wouldn't be in this spot now. So the process is what failed and PAterno takes responsibility after that.


I don't think I can ever say that about anyone, especially someone I've never meant. Well I agree that is a big difference.

That isn't meant as a shot at JB, I'm not saying I would expect him to cover something like this up. Just pointing out we never really know. JB is just a different personality from Paterno (who is much quieter, reserved and much older.

 

[Knicks411]

I guess the process is just failed. I just can't get past the fact that there's a structure in place where a coach would have to tell the head coach, who would then report it to his "superiors" (and I use that term loosely, since JoePa really had no superiors at the school).

Is it really just because this happened on school property that he had to go up the chain of command, so to speak? If I see someone raping a guy on the street, for instance, I'm not telling my boss. I'm calling the cops. But this starts with McQueary; you saw it, you call the cops. You're the primary witness.

1. Every one seems to have been afraid of losing their jobs. THAT is to be expected, regardless of the crime. Not saying it's excusable. But, it's reality

This is probably true, but the more you think about it, the more bogus it becomes.

If McQueary gets fired because of what he reported, does he not have the easiest law suit in history?

 

[realorange]

Very similar to the situation the Catholic Church went through. Protect the institution at all costs. Both ended up going down in flames because nobody put out the first fire.

 

[arnie3]

I don't know why McQueary is being sheltered, clearly there is more here that has not yet been released or come to light. But as far as JoePa goes......he is the Big Enchilada. As far as the football program goes, no make that the entire Athletic Program, check that...... maybe the entire University, he is the face. If the Face of your University chooses to take the low road and allow young boys to be raped in order to preserve his own reputation how do you not see how a sane BOT can do anything but say we can no longer allow that person to be in a position to be the face of our University.

How could they allow someone who was more concerned about how disclosure would impact his football program and his personal reputation than he was about preventing youngsters from being raped, continue to be held out by the University as someone who should be looked up to, admired and be allowed to be in a position of trust and act as a leader of the young men playing football at PSU. The only way the BOT could do this would be to say "Puck we don't care about right and wrong and teaching values or morality to our students, we only care that we continue to take in the money that PSU football generates...if a few lives are lost in preserving that revenue so be it."

I've asked myself that same question. All I can think of as an answer is that McQueary is a witness to the shower incident of victim one. He says that he saw Sandusky having sex with a ten year old. He said that he told this to Paterno, Shultz and Curly. Shultz and Curley denied this to the Grand Jury, and they referred to the incident as "horsing around." Both have been indicted for prejury. I believe that the Board felt an obligation to keep him (for that I find this unforgivable).
Even given that, he should have been put on administrative leave, not on the sidelines or in the booth! It's outrageous, but this whole cover up makes me ill.