The players

[Zelda Zonk]

Here’s another expression: “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

The game plan and recruiting are on JB, no question. Desire is on the players, though. There’s only so much the coaching staff can do to make Edwards stronger and tougher. And they have developed him into an effective big who will play professionally. At some point, Edwards needs to be held accountable when he has games like yesterday.

Same goes for rebounding. The effort just isn’t there with some of the players. JB is pointing this out to anyone who will listen. There was a moment during the game when the ball was just sitting there in the paint and no one went for it. JB can’t do anything about that. When someone like Girard gets 7 boards, it’s not because he’s more fundamentally sound than Bell. It’s desire.

JB can’t do anything about missed layups either. Not in the middle of a game at least. I’ll bet Hima will be a more effective finisher by next season, though.

It’s not 100% on JB, nor is it 0% on JB.

I don’t disagree with any of that. I never said anything was 100% on JB.
My point was that we were outclassed and outsmarted from the start, and even if we had converted better on those ‘bunnies,’ etc., there was still headroom on VA’s side. Just because we got back into this game and lost by 7 doesn’t mean that if we had made three layups and collected two more rebounds that we would have won. The specious concept in this thread starter seems to cling to that sort of ‘logic.’ But the game is ‘elastic.’

[more:]
The team wants to “drink.” It just doesn’t know how to. Or how to do it well.
which is why the military analogy is far more appropriate. A unit wants to be successful and wants to execute something. The leadership needs to get that unit into a position where it can execute. That’s training and planning, the precursors to success.

 

[Day2]

Wow is that a poor observation. He anticipates passes down low MUCH QUICKER than Bell and is a better rebounder. After reading this, I’m not sure you know who Taylor is.

Quickness and speed are not the same thing. He physically isn’t fast. He couldn’t get to a loose ball in the BC game that you could probably get to.

I didn’t say anything about his rebounding.

 

[Orangezoo]

Orangezoo was objectively the most nonsensical. You know that though

You argued six degrees of your own initial complaint in that thread and then you call me out in a totally new thread with more of this crap. Honestly just read how much you were all over the map. And FYI you can tag people on here. At least have some decency to do that... I assume you just did so then hit ignore lol.

 

[Niastri]

That’s really interesting stat. I’ll be honest, I would have never guessed those stats. There is one disclaimer though. They moved the 3 point line back after the 2018-2019 season. After moving it back, the 2019-2020 season and 2020-2021 season were the 2 lowest 3pt percentage average in history of college basketball at 33.3% and 33.6% respectively. That is another stat I would have never guessed.

Just goes to prove it isn’t necessarily going against better shooters. But the less athletic players playing in the zone. No doubt that the Syracuse player has become less athletic and less talented over the past 8 years.

I bet the biggest differences in our defense between the last 8 years and preceding 8 are our block and steal percentages.

Our movement in the zone just isn't as quick or efficient as it used to be. Our guys just can't get there like they used to.

Not being as afraid of blocks and steals makes our opponents just a little too comfortable.

I be curious to see evidence to back me up. I don't subscribe to the advanced metics sites that track such things though.

 

[Brooky03]

I bet the biggest differences in our defense between the last 8 years and preceding 8 are our block and steal percentages.

Our movement in the zone just isn't as quick or efficient as it used to be. Our guys just can't get there like they used to.

Not being as afraid of blocks and steals makes our opponents just a little too comfortable.

I be curious to see evidence to back me up. I don't subscribe to the advanced metics sites that track such things though.

I didn't go back 16 years but I did go back to 2010 and did my best to come up with steal and block percentages for the team with the stats I found. Methodology: Steal and Block totals for the season divided by total possessions for the season (derived by multiplying average possessions per game by number of games played). I probably did this the hard way, if I did it correctly at all.

Season	Steals	Blocks	Poss. per game	Games	Possessions	Steal %	Block %
2022​	231​	124​	71.8​	33​	2369.4​	9.7%​	5.2%​
2021​	227​	141​	71.3​	28​	1996.4​	11.4%​	7.1%​
2020​	237​	143​	70.7​	32​	2262.4​	10.5%​	6.3%​
2019​	278​	162​	69.4​	34​	2359.6​	11.8%​	6.9%​
2018​	258​	198​	66.9​	37​	2475.3​	10.4%​	8.0%​
2017​	275​	159​	70​	34​	2380​	11.6%​	6.7%​
2016​	300​	162​	67.2​	37​	2486.4​	12.1%​	6.5%​
2015​	258​	157​	68.3​	31​	2117.3​	12.2%​	7.4%​
2014​	271​	171​	62.4​	34​	2121.6​	12.8%​	8.1%​
2013​	360​	248​	67.7​	40​	2708​	13.3%​	9.2%​
2012​	338​	255​	67​	37​	2479​	13.6%​	10.3%​
2011​	304​	231​	68.2​	35​	2387​	12.7%​	9.7%​
2010​	336​	221​	72​	35​	2520​	13.3%​	8.8%​

Unsurprisingly, you're correct that we stole the ball and swatted the ball more in our successful years than these last 8 years. Last year was especially bad.

 

[Orangezoo]

Here are some numbers.

In 2002-2003- 84 teams shot 20 3s a game and 50 shot less than 15

In 2012-13 - 88 teams shot 20 3s a game and 23 shot less than 15

In 2022-23 so far- 256 teams are shooting 20 3s a game and 7 are shooting less than 15 a game

Let's look at makes-

In 02-03 19 teams made 8 or more per game

In 12-13 25 teams made 8 or more per game

In 22-23 103 teams are making 8 or more per game

I would say the game has shifted necessitating scheme adjustments. Put that into a model with more variables and the correlation will be strong.

Now take the above and pair it with recruiting struggles and you magnify the issue but the way teams play to shoot the 3 has shifted massively.

The reason for doing the above is that the numbers on the bell curve have shifted a lot. That is significant and related to how the tactics of the game have changed

 

[Orangezoo]

I didn't go back 16 years but I did go back to 2010 and did my best to come up with steal and block percentages for the team with the stats I found. Methodology: Steal and Block totals for the season divided by total possessions for the season (derived by multiplying average possessions per game by number of games played). I probably did this the hard way, if I did it correctly at all.

Season	Steals	Blocks	Poss. per game	Games	Possessions	Steal %	Block %
2022​	231​	124​	71.8​	33​	2369.4​	9.7%​	5.2%​
2021​	227​	141​	71.3​	28​	1996.4​	11.4%​	7.1%​
2020​	237​	143​	70.7​	32​	2262.4​	10.5%​	6.3%​
2019​	278​	162​	69.4​	34​	2359.6​	11.8%​	6.9%​
2018​	258​	198​	66.9​	37​	2475.3​	10.4%​	8.0%​
2017​	275​	159​	70​	34​	2380​	11.6%​	6.7%​
2016​	300​	162​	67.2​	37​	2486.4​	12.1%​	6.5%​
2015​	258​	157​	68.3​	31​	2117.3​	12.2%​	7.4%​
2014​	271​	171​	62.4​	34​	2121.6​	12.8%​	8.1%​
2013​	360​	248​	67.7​	40​	2708​	13.3%​	9.2%​
2012​	338​	255​	67​	37​	2479​	13.6%​	10.3%​
2011​	304​	231​	68.2​	35​	2387​	12.7%​	9.7%​
2010​	336​	221​	72​	35​	2520​	13.3%​	8.8%​

Unsurprisingly, you're correct that we stole the ball and swatted the ball more in our successful years than these last 8 years. Last year was especially bad.

The steal and block percentages may be attributable to higher number of 3pt shots. That means less block opportunities and also potentially less steal opportunities as well. The one or two pass 3 pt shots are far more common vs the zone along with fewer risky passes. Teams also, given their propensity to shoot the 3, are less inclined to pass it to the areas we like to trap.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Here are some numbers.

In 2002-2003- 84 teams shot 20 3s a game and 50 shot less than 15

In 2012-13 - 88 teams shot 20 3s a game and 23 shot less than 15

In 2022-23 so far- 256 teams are shooting 20 3s a game and 7 are shooting less than 15 a game

Let's look at makes-

In 02-03 19 teams made 8 or more per game

In 12-13 25 teams made 8 or more per game

In 22-23 103 teams are making 8 or more per game

I would say the game has shifted necessitating scheme adjustments. Put that into a model with more variables and the correlation will be strong.

Now take the above and pair it with recruiting struggles and you magnify the issue but the way teams play to shoot the 3 has shifted massively.

The reason for doing the above is that the numbers on the bell curve have shifted a lot. That is significant and related to how the tactics of the game have changed

2013 was peak zone. It's mostly been downhill since. Guys are shooting those 3's further out as well.