The real missing piece with this team

[Czar]

I think we're going to continue to disagree on this.

As to your original points:

How much time do you give someone wandering around, not playing to his potential, unable to finish against anyone in the Big East.

He's shooting over .550 from the field - even if it's all dunks, it shows some aptitude to finish. Not even sure what you're talking about w/ the wandering around comment. I've never seen him end up sitting by CTO in the middle of a play. The kid gets yanked after every miscue - if he lacks confidence, or plays tightly, I can't blame him for that. If he seems to lose interest, well, I would too i I went entire games w/out one person passing me the ball outside of the one bailout pass from MCW per game after he leaves his feet (and honesty it's not NEARLY the issue some of you make it out to be).

It takes a special player to keep his motor running non-stop just to rebound. It really does. I've said it before, it's not an admirable quality, but it applies to lots of big men. If they don't touch the ball, they tend to have What moments where they lose focus. It's not all that out of the ordinary or just a Rak problem. And as of late I haven't seen him doing it much.

Want to touch the ball? Get a damned offensive rebound and put-back. JB doesn't stop him from that.

Really? Want to touch the ball, get a rebound? I don't know, seems like a philosophy. Our guards cannot shoot, why not let some of the other people that cannot shoot try missing too. See my point above - half the time he's up trying to set screens, and he still is second on the team in offensive rebounds. Still shoots .550 plus from the field. It's not like he's the walking dead.

If you actually watched the games you might discover the "bizarre reasons" he gets pulled for. Or do you actually think JB is pulling him just for kicks?

Why did he get pulled in the first half today? He gets pulled off one mistake, JB is notorious for that (it tends dissipate Sophomore years, but to Rak's discredit there has been sometimes where he's lacked intensity and he seems to be in some permanent dog house because of it - Baye gets a much longer leash imo) - it's not a new thing.

If the player behind him offered up a bit more, I wouldn't care. If it was for DC, and DC getting touches to develop his game, so be it. Baye comes in and offers up very little - certainly not more than Rak, and can make the same mistakes and stay in (let's not pretend that making mistakes is just a Rak thing - it's absurd but it feels like a lot of u think that). I just find the rotation confusing. That's all.

Again, Rak was the only player in the UConn/G'Town game that was a net positive, when Baye was in both games we got destroyed. Yet Baye's still getting substantial minutes and foul trouble wasn't an issue in either loss. Maybe Rak was fatigued, but he's played longer stretches, and since he's resting all the time anyway when he's on the court (supposedly) he should be fine to stay in.

By no means am I arguing Rak is great - but he's serviceable, and we do little to use him. He does need to be more productive on the boards, but as I said before, there is a ton of time where he and Baye are 1 on 3 on the boards because the forwards are always rushing in late. You have to be a pretty exceptional rebounder to excel under those circumstances, neither of them are to begin with so it gets accentuated a bit more. Especially with Baye because he lacks strength.

This team sucks offensively, I don't see why when he posts up, and he does, we don't toss it in there once in awhile. See what opens up. It's gotta be better than jacking up threes w/ our sub 30% guards.

And he does box out - ur mental or maybe kept watching the Georgia game and didn't realize it if you missed that for an entire game today.

Rak: 5 in 22
Fab: 5.8 boards in 25 last year

I agree with everything you say. Playing Baye is like playing Jeremy McNeil. And as much as I loved McNeil, he never should get more than 10 minutes per game.

 

[Opus]

Just saw this thread. And with it being 3:41 am, I didn't read it. Sorry. But just going by the title. if people think there is only one missing piece from this team...well you must be a half full kinda guy/gal. That is all.

 

[TBCuse11]

The missing piece to this team is Dion Waiters. Since he isn't walking thru that door, we have to grind this year out and hope for the best.

Seriously though, when was the last time Cuse had an offense this bad? Must be ten years or more at least. We simply can not score. Period.

 

[SoBristol]

The missing piece to this team is Dion Waiters. Since he isn't walking thru that door, we have to grind this year out and hope for the best.

Seriously though, when was the last time Cuse had an offense this bad? Must be ten years or more at least. We simply can not score. Period.

Against Providence (small guards; small SF), we had a lot of offense. When we can get some drive moves from MCW and BT, and when we can get out in transition, we have offense except from the centers. We are near the top of the league in offense.

G-town made it a half-court game. G-town kept our guards from getting drive moves, and they matched up on JS. Made us shoot from the perimeter -- and our shooters clanked a lot of shots. Our game inside the 3 was basically CJ -- and there is the issue against a team like G-town.

 

[bpo57]

He took three shots today.

He got the ball in the post - drove to the lane - fouled.

He missed on a lob.

He got the feed from MCW with 1 second on the shot clock, I'm not sure why everyone was expecting him to pump fake and and dunk that. He had to get it up quickly - what was he going to do?

He scored on a put back late.

What other touches are you referring to?

I'm not saying they need to feed him the ball constantly, but one post touch is not enough. The one legit feed he got in the post - he was fouled going into the lane. Guards do not feed the post - you can't improve if you don't touch the ball more than once every two weeks other than on lobs, bail-out passes.

He received two lob-type passes into the post. He fumbled both of them and couldn't convert. I agree with you on the pass with one second left on the shot clock- that was a tough spot. We just disagree on his offensive capabilities. No doubt a more effective offense spreads the ball around and feeds the post. I guess it is worth a try but I am not at all convinced that much would come of it. It does highlight a major deficiency on this team though- besides Fair we have nobody that can score inside other than an occasional slash to the hoop by one of our guards.

 

[bpo57]

Fine, watch the game again.

Count for me the number of times he doesn't box out or look for his man to box out - that's what was happening on his tip-in, he looked for his, was trying to get in position to box out and then jumped late and it ended up just being a tip. He's trying - if ppl don't see it, I don't know what to say.

He's second on the team in offensive rebounds - which proves he never gets one obviously. Per minute he and Baye would probably lead the team by quite a bit.

I don't think half of you watch the post men at all - the perception exists and then it just sticks for the year. Hell, this is the same board where 80% of the ppl have insisted for four years that BT is a phenomenal 3 point shooter based on the fact that other ppl on the board say so.

I watch our post men constantly and they are consistently unproductive. We have to be the only team in the country where our big men's foul totals nearly exceed points scored. RC racked up some ok stats against inferior competition in December. Since BE play started he basically has had two good games and has done bupkis besides that. All while opposing defenses spend little time focused on our post players. I just don't see what you see in terms of RC being this gem that is not being properly utilized.

 

[Ghost]

I watch our post men constantly and they are consistently unproductive. We have to be the only team in the country where our big men's foul totals nearly exceed points scored. RC racked up some ok stats against inferior competition in December. Since BE play started he basically has had two good games and has done bupkis besides that. All while opposing defenses spend little time focused on our post players. I just don't see what you see in terms of RC being this gem that is not being properly utilized.

First, a lot of players boost their stats during the part of the schedule where you play inferior competition. That's not much of anything. At least it shows he's good enough to dominate inferior competition, no??? Might mean we could at least try to utilize him against regular competition?

Second, I really have tried to emphasize that my argument isn't that Rak is some gem, or savior for the team, my point is that he takes a lot of unwarranted heat, and that the guards do an absolute job of getting him involved. And JB has done his best to ensure the kid is probably a basket case. In the last two games, we have throw two traditional passes into the post.

On one he drove to his left, and was fouled.
On the other he did a turnaround and missed. And he was pulled for that by JB. 27 foot jumpers, yes sir! 3 foot turnaround, front rimmed, you're out of control RAK! It's left me a bit puzzled.

I see him receive a post pass about once a month - and the results aren't typically that disastrous (although two games ago he did do some weird attempt at backing his man down where he over-dribbled and I think turned it over in his one attempt in the post that game)

 

[Orangezoo]

Just saw this thread. And with it being 3:41 am, I didn't read it. Sorry. But just going by the title. if people think there is only one missing piece from this team...well you must be a half full kinda guy/gal. That is all.

that wasnt the perspective of my op- at 34-2 last year we had missing pieces but we were so good at everything else it didnt matter. this year we have multiple missing pieces .. interior production would be one of them but that goes as far as having shooters to offset .. my point was a true all around 3 who can shoot it and make plays off the dribble is a key piece and has been a staple of the program for years. that flexibility helps the offense. having cj be a better ball handler and a guy who can get his own shot on the drive would go long ways to not forcing two guys to handle the ball handling load. with that said- of course we could use inside production and outside shooting- just thinking of the programs history and how an all around sf is typically synonymous with the highest level of success for us.

 

[bpo57]

First, a lot of players boost their stats during the part of the schedule where you play inferior competition. That's not much of anything. At least it shows he's good enough to dominate inferior competition, no??? Might mean we could at least try to utilize him against regular competition?

Second, I really have tried to emphasize that my argument isn't that Rak is some gem, or savior for the team, my point is that he takes a lot of unwarranted heat, and that the guards do an absolute job of getting him involved. And JB has done his best to ensure the kid is probably a basket case. In the last two games, we have throw two traditional passes into the post.

On one he drove to his left, and was fouled.
On the other he did a turnaround and missed. And he was pulled for that by JB. 27 foot jumpers, yes sir! 3 foot turnaround, front rimmed, you're out of control RAK! It's left me a bit puzzled.

I see him receive a post pass about once a month - and the results aren't typically that disastrous (although two games ago he did do some weird attempt at backing his man down where he over-dribbled and I think turned it over in his one attempt in the post that game)

I agree on a few points. JB has always been reactionary where he gives some guys a three inch leash and others 94 feet. That can be detrimental, no doubt. But you can tell the coaching staff is very frustrated with RC. I also agree that we could do a much better job of getting the ball inside, not just to RC but Fair as well. That said, I think one of the reasons why they don't feed RC is that they have no confidence in him. That might be misguided (I don't think so) but right or wrong it is a factor.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

We ridicule JTIII and praise JB, yet they have the same number of NCAA wins since they've both been in the BE.

Well, that one hurt...

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

The real missing piece is...no star. JB loves having the guy who can take and make all the big shots down the stretch. We dont have that guy who can make em. We have Triche and MCW playing patty cake out there 35 feet from the hoop last night.

 

[OttoMets]

The real missing piece is...no star. JB loves having the guy who can take and make all the big shots down the stretch. We dont have that guy who can make em. We have Triche and MCW playing patty cake out there 35 feet from the hoop last night.

This hurts us.

Also, uh, your comment about Triche's shoes? What's going on? Why can't the kid find some sneakers that keep him on his feet for a full game?

 

[Coach Orange]

that wasnt the perspective of my op- at 34-2 last year we had missing pieces but we were so good at everything else it didnt matter. this year we have multiple missing pieces .. interior production would be one of them but that goes as far as having shooters to offset .. my point was a true all around 3 who can shoot it and make plays off the dribble is a key piece and has been a staple of the program for years. that flexibility helps the offense. having cj be a better ball handler and a guy who can get his own shot on the drive would go long ways to not forcing two guys to handle the ball handling load. with that said- of course we could use inside production and outside shooting- just thinking of the programs history and how an all around sf is typically synonymous with the highest level of success for us.

Though I see your point, I'm not sure I buy it. Fair consistently and effectively catches the ball and takes a dribble or two to create space for his own pull-up jump shot. He also routinely drives for layups or close floaters. He's shooting 48%, suggesting that he must be doing something right.

I can see the point about him needing to extend his range to maximize his scoring ability, but he's shooting 41% from behind the arc, which is quite a bit more than Joseph's 34% last year. The difference is CJ takes smarter shots, limiting the bad ones. Fair is averaging more points (14 to 13) and rebounds (7 to 4) per game than KJo did, too, and he still has another year to develop. Though the argument could be made that Dion took some of KJo's shots and points away from him last year, the same could be said about Fair having three other teammates averaging double-digit ppg this year.

If the argument is that our offense looked better with Carmelo at the three, I would argue that all offenses look better with that caliber of player on the floor. Take Melo out of the equation, and the last decade or so has seen Shumpert, Nichols, (sometimes) Pace, Harris, Wes, and KJo play the bulk of the minutes at the three. In terms of their overall game and stats, CJ (a junior) is comparable with all of them except Shumpert and Nichols, who scored six ppg and five ppg more (but both rebounded less) respectively during their senior years. Though CJ won't average 20 a game next year like Shumpert did, he may have a more efficient, better all-around skill set during his senior campaign.

The real problem is that the collection of offensive talent, position by position, is not as good on this year's team as it has been during many other seasons. Since there is no star to carry the team, that deficiency of fundamental offensive skills is showing up more.

 

[Orangezoo]

when it all comes down to it, it is about not having a real star on offense.. i guess i gravitate towards the sf being the position of choice there even with dion having held that role last year.. its amazing we are 22-5 considering all the preseason hope- trevor from 3, raks development, dc2 scoring in the post and triche coming out of his shell went kerplunk for the most part. I sometimes wonder what mcw would be with those things having come true- probably a double - double from the point position..

 

[Coach Orange]

when it all comes down to it, it is about not having a real star on offense.. i guess i gravitate towards the sf being the position of choice there even with dion having held that role last year.. its amazing we are 22-5 considering all the preseason hope- trevor from 3, raks development, dc2 scoring in the post and triche coming out of his shell went kerplunk for the most part. I sometimes wonder what mcw would be with those things having come true- probably a double - double from the point position..

All valid points.

 

[MyMeloMyMan]

This hurts us.

Also, uh, your comment about Triche's shoes? What's going on? Why can't the kid find some sneakers that keep him on his feet for a full game?

It will go down as the greatest mystery for me.. how he can't stay on 2 feet through a full game of dribbling.

 

[Opus]

that wasnt the perspective of my op- at 34-2 last year we had missing pieces but we were so good at everything else it didnt matter. this year we have multiple missing pieces .. interior production would be one of them but that goes as far as having shooters to offset .. my point was a true all around 3 who can shoot it and make plays off the dribble is a key piece and has been a staple of the program for years. that flexibility helps the offense. having cj be a better ball handler and a guy who can get his own shot on the drive would go long ways to not forcing two guys to handle the ball handling load. with that said- of course we could use inside production and outside shooting- just thinking of the programs history and how an all around sf is typically synonymous with the highest level of success for us.

Agreed. And why I shouldn't read this board so late in the evening after a couple cocktails and only reading the titles.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

I think we're going to continue to disagree on this.

As to your original points:

How much time do you give someone wandering around, not playing to his potential, unable to finish against anyone in the Big East.

He's shooting over .550 from the field - even if it's all dunks, it shows some aptitude to finish. Not even sure what you're talking about w/ the wandering around comment. I've never seen him end up sitting by CTO in the middle of a play. The kid gets yanked after every miscue - if he lacks confidence, or plays tightly, I can't blame him for that. If he seems to lose interest, well, I would too i I went entire games w/out one person passing me the ball outside of the one bailout pass from MCW per game after he leaves his feet (and honesty it's not NEARLY the issue some of you make it out to be).

It takes a special player to keep his motor running non-stop just to rebound. It really does. I've said it before, it's not an admirable quality, but it applies to lots of big men. If they don't touch the ball, they tend to have What moments where they lose focus. It's not all that out of the ordinary or just a Rak problem. And as of late I haven't seen him doing it much.

Want to touch the ball? Get a damned offensive rebound and put-back. JB doesn't stop him from that.

Really? Want to touch the ball, get a rebound? I don't know, seems like a philosophy. Our guards cannot shoot, why not let some of the other people that cannot shoot try missing too. See my point above - half the time he's up trying to set screens, and he still is second on the team in offensive rebounds. Still shoots .550 plus from the field. It's not like he's the walking dead.

If you actually watched the games you might discover the "bizarre reasons" he gets pulled for. Or do you actually think JB is pulling him just for kicks?

Why did he get pulled in the first half today? He gets pulled off one mistake, JB is notorious for that (it tends dissipate Sophomore years, but to Rak's discredit there has been sometimes where he's lacked intensity and he seems to be in some permanent dog house because of it - Baye gets a much longer leash imo) - it's not a new thing.

If the player behind him offered up a bit more, I wouldn't care. If it was for DC, and DC getting touches to develop his game, so be it. Baye comes in and offers up very little - certainly not more than Rak, and can make the same mistakes and stay in (let's not pretend that making mistakes is just a Rak thing - it's absurd but it feels like a lot of u think that). I just find the rotation confusing. That's all.

Again, Rak was the only player in the UConn/G'Town game that was a net positive, when Baye was in both games we got destroyed. Yet Baye's still getting substantial minutes and foul trouble wasn't an issue in either loss. Maybe Rak was fatigued, but he's played longer stretches, and since he's resting all the time anyway when he's on the court (supposedly) he should be fine to stay in.

By no means am I arguing Rak is great - but he's serviceable, and we do little to use him. He does need to be more productive on the boards, but as I said before, there is a ton of time where he and Baye are 1 on 3 on the boards because the forwards are always rushing in late. You have to be a pretty exceptional rebounder to excel under those circumstances, neither of them are to begin with so it gets accentuated a bit more. Especially with Baye because he lacks strength.

This team sucks offensively, I don't see why when he posts up, and he does, we don't toss it in there once in awhile. See what opens up. It's gotta be better than jacking up threes w/ our sub 30% guards.

And he does box out - ur mental or maybe kept watching the Georgia game and didn't realize it if you missed that for an entire game today.

Rak: 5 in 22
Fab: 5.8 boards in 25 last year

Love your opinions, no matter how errant they may be. I watch as much of SU or more than anyone and my statements are spot on. His reputation as having no motor coming out of high school have unfortunately been also spot on. Can't get your motor running playing for D1 SU? I got mine running playing at LeMoyne for god's sake. He is serviceable and that is it sometimes and then only defensively. He hasn't shown any aptitude for finishing unless someone puts the ball a foot over the rim and a foot or two from it. You and I could finish those if we were his size and had his youth and athleticism (speaking for myself here maybe).

Anyway like your determination and will give you a break on this one as he is family (as in Ghost player in so many games).