The silly turnovers killed us, and little else

[swish7]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

The refs sucked, but the major suckage occurred after we were already 6-7 silly turnovers into the 2nd half. Valuing the ball is what led us on this mini run. However, you cannot devalue the ball like we did in the 2nd half, and expect to win. There might be a million reasons why bad Triche showed up in the second half, I don't know. Bad back. Psychological damage. I don't know, but it is frightful. How someone who has started 300 games and for seemingly 8 years, cannot receive an inbounds pass, or beat pressure is beyond me. His disease is contagious, and infected MCW, who ended up adding 4 TOs of his own, one and Ollie-like off the foot dribble.

I really feel this was our tournament, but the much better team won. It should have been the dean of the BE, JB up there writing that last chapter. But it was his fleeting 'protege', Pitino. Head, heart, and hustle won tonight. In the 2nd, we lost our head, eventually lost our hustle, then our heart, and lost.

 

[Flacusian]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

The refs sucked, but the major suckage occurred after we were already 6-7 silly turnovers into the 2nd half. Valuing the ball is what led us on this mini run. However, you cannot devalue the ball like we did in the 2nd half, and expect to win. There might be a million reasons why bad Triche showed up in the second half, I don't know. Bad back. Psychological damage. I don't know, but it is frightful. How someone who has started 300 games and for seemingly 8 years, cannot receive an inbounds pass, or beat pressure is beyond me. His disease is contagious, and infected MCW, who ended up adding 4 TOs of his own, one and Ollie-like off the foot dribble.

I really feel this was our tournament, but the much better team won. It should have been the dean of the BE, JB up there writing that last chapter. But it was his fleeting 'protege', Pitino. Head, heart, and hustle won tonight. In the 2nd, we lost our head, eventually lost our hustle, then our heart, and lost.

Admittedly, much of what you say is true and well stated. I however believe that you understate the role the poor officiating and to a greater degree the allowance of defenses to push the envelope of what is allowable contact and defensive posture in the game of college basketball. When a team is allowed to play in a fashion that should generally be prohibited by the rules it tends to have an averse effect on the opposition. We saw that tonight. I'm disappointed that we lost but I am also disappointed in the manner in which we lost. Some of it is on us... no doubt. But not all of it.

 

[swish7]

Admittedly, much of what you say is true and well stated. I however believe that you understate the role the poor officiating and to a greater degree the allowance of defenses to push the envelope of what is allowable contact and defensive posture in the game of college basketball. When a team is allowed to play in a fashion that should generally be prohibited by the rules it tends to have an averse effect on the opposition. We saw that tonight. I'm disappointed that we lost but I am also disappointed in the manner in which we lost. Some of it is on us... no doubt. But not all of it.

It is all on us. In a blowout loss, it has to be.

This BE thug ball act has been performed by 3-4 teams for about 10 years now. We should have a strategy to handle it by now. That we fall victim to it again and again is infuriating.

The ... statement (don't even know what to call it) that we will not face pressure like this in the tourney, soo hollow. And, it's not the first time that cannard has been lobbed here.

I was impressed with MCW. He tried to attack the pressure and draw fouls. After only one year of play he already approaches it better than BT. Cut those turnovers in half and this game maybe becomes a carbon copy of the Gtown game. A first half cushion, becomes a dogfight. But, alas, we got spanked, and have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I just hope the smackdown doesn't destroy our confidence.

 

[tbonezone]

well southerland to bench w/4 fouls and 15 minutes to go seemed to be the turning point in the game.

 

[Ghost]

well southerland to bench w/4 fouls and 15 minutes to go seemed to be the turning point in the game.

And one of those fouls came because of a ridiculous turnover.

 

[Shrmdougluvr]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

I also think he played some guys too much this year, and it really showed at the ends of games. I never felt like this team had the ability to come back on anyone because they always seemed so spent down the stretch of games (i was amazed they pulled off the win in OT against Gtown).

 

[Ghost]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

The refs sucked, but the major suckage occurred after we were already 6-7 silly turnovers into the 2nd half. Valuing the ball is what led us on this mini run. However, you cannot devalue the ball like we did in the 2nd half, and expect to win. There might be a million reasons why bad Triche showed up in the second half, I don't know. Bad back. Psychological damage. I don't know, but it is frightful. How someone who has started 300 games and for seemingly 8 years, cannot receive an inbounds pass, or beat pressure is beyond me. His disease is contagious, and infected MCW, who ended up adding 4 TOs of his own, one and Ollie-like off the foot dribble.

I really feel this was our tournament, but the much better team won. It should have been the dean of the BE, JB up there writing that last chapter. But it was his fleeting 'protege', Pitino. Head, heart, and hustle won tonight. In the 2nd, we lost our head, eventually lost our hustle, then our heart, and lost.

I thought Triche was going to have a good game, he seemed to come out w/ some pretty strong moves/play. After that turnover to end the first half he seemed to lose it a bit (okay, a lot) - he really folded under the pressure defense after that. I was surprised to see him THAT shaken by it. It did seem to be contagious after that and he didn't seem to want to touch the ball at a certain point.

 

[rrlbees]

I thought Triche was going to have a good game, he seemed to come out w/ some pretty strong moves/play. After that turnover to end the first half he seemed to lose it a bit (okay, a lot) - he really folded under the pressure defense after that. I was surprised to see him THAT shaken by it. It did seem to be contagious after that and he didn't seem to want to touch the ball at a certain point.

Well he had more turnovers (4) in the first half than he did in the second (3) and 1 of those was in the last minute of garbage time. So I don't think the one at the end of the half when he got trapped by a double team did anything to him.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[SarasotaPaul]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

The refs sucked, but the major suckage occurred after we were already 6-7 silly turnovers into the 2nd half. Valuing the ball is what led us on this mini run. However, you cannot devalue the ball like we did in the 2nd half, and expect to win. There might be a million reasons why bad Triche showed up in the second half, I don't know. Bad back. Psychological damage. I don't know, but it is frightful. How someone who has started 300 games and for seemingly 8 years, cannot receive an inbounds pass, or beat pressure is beyond me. His disease is contagious, and infected MCW, who ended up adding 4 TOs of his own, one and Ollie-like off the foot dribble.

I really feel this was our tournament, but the much better team won. It should have been the dean of the BE, JB up there writing that last chapter. But it was his fleeting 'protege', Pitino. Head, heart, and hustle won tonight. In the 2nd, we lost our head, eventually lost our hustle, then our heart, and lost.

Swish - I can't agree with much of anything you stated, except that the refs sucked. That was more the game than anything else. Hard to recover from that. Can't value the ball getting mugged constantly and in several cases literally run over from behind.

 

[Ghost]

Well he had more turnovers (4) in the first half than he did in the second (3) and 1 of those was in the last minute of garbage time. So I don't think the one at the end of the half when he got trapped by a double team did anything to him.

Sent using my Commodore 64

I don't know, all I remember is lots of bad passes - and I thought he looked like he was going to be "on" early. Surprised to see him fall apart like that w/ some really horrid TO's.

 

[swish7]

Swish - I can't agree with much of anything you stated, except that the refs sucked. That was more the game than anything else. Hard to recover from that. Can't value the ball getting mugged constantly and in several cases literally run over from behind.

Watch the tape. The poorest calls came well after momentum had swung louisville's way.

 

[senorpalmer]

We'll never know what would have happened in a reasonably called game. Unfortunately we didn't see one. Louisville gets to mug SU in full court pressure for an extended period, and Cuse gets rung up for BS on the other end. If they want to let it be physical fine, call it consistent on both ends.

 

[SarasotaPaul]

Watch the tape. The poorest calls came well after momentum had swung louisville's way.

You are absolutely right. There wen't many calls until after they had turned the mud wrestling into a victory. Thats the point though now isn't it? I watched Grant get banged to the floor and out of bounds and they got the ball and got a 3 after that.. I watched players being wrapped up by free safeties, and a hell of a lot of bump, bump bump and run. Even in football you can't do that more than a few yards down the field. Yes, we made a lot of bad passes but it all went together not like you said only after they had secured the lead. In fact while it was still a game MCW got that ridiculous flagrant call after twice getting a two handed shove in the chest/stomach. That appeared to me the final nail in the coffin for us.

We had trouble in the last two games closing but did it. But neither G'town nor Pitt was nearly as blatant in mauling us every step of the way down the court. That gave us the wins.

 

[OrangeDW]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

The refs sucked, but the major suckage occurred after we were already 6-7 silly turnovers into the 2nd half. Valuing the ball is what led us on this mini run. However, you cannot devalue the ball like we did in the 2nd half, and expect to win. There might be a million reasons why bad Triche showed up in the second half, I don't know. Bad back. Psychological damage. I don't know, but it is frightful. How someone who has started 300 games and for seemingly 8 years, cannot receive an inbounds pass, or beat pressure is beyond me. His disease is contagious, and infected MCW, who ended up adding 4 TOs of his own, one and Ollie-like off the foot dribble.

I really feel this was our tournament, but the much better team won. It should have been the dean of the BE, JB up there writing that last chapter. But it was his fleeting 'protege', Pitino. Head, heart, and hustle won tonight. In the 2nd, we lost our head, eventually lost our hustle, then our heart, and lost.

Many of the turnovers came after our players were grabbed, bumped, tackled, or hand checked with 1 or even 2 hands(that one even lead to a flagrant on us!)

Not that hard to force turnovers when they don't call 75% of the fouls you commit. And on the other end, it's hard to break pressure when you're getting fouled and it's not called.

 

[mantonio]

WE are the more talented team, & it will be proven in the tourney.

 

[mantonio]

Watch the tape. The poorest calls came well after momentum had swung louisville's way.

Doesn't matter. The refs clearly kept us from being in the game at the end. We would have won more likely, because we had the better players at 4 of the 5 positions.

 

[mantonio]

It is all on us. In a blowout loss, it has to be.

This BE thug ball act has been performed by 3-4 teams for about 10 years now. We should have a strategy to handle it by now. That we fall victim to it again and again is infuriating.

The ... statement (don't even know what to call it) that we will not face pressure like this in the tourney, soo hollow. And, it's not the first time that cannard has been lobbed here.

I was impressed with MCW. He tried to attack the pressure and draw fouls. After only one year of play he already approaches it better than BT. Cut those turnovers in half and this game maybe becomes a carbon copy of the Gtown game. A first half cushion, becomes a dogfight. But, alas, we got spanked, and have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I just hope the smackdown doesn't destroy our confidence.

WRONG.

Bad officiating is not the responsibility of a team's coaching staff to adjust.

This problem should have been dealt with by the conference or the NCAA a long time ago. Maybe if the coaches of the victimized teams decided to pull their teams off the court & demanding the refs start calling every grab & shove, it could have been fixed, then Louisville wins NO titles in the Big East.

You have a lot of nerve to ask teams to adjust to other teams that are breaking the rules of the game. It's like telling a professor to allow his students to bring a cheat sheet to class with more than half the answers.

Cheating is cheating, & should not be tolerated.

 

[newmexicuse]

I disagree that the TOs was the only thing that kille us.

The biggie was that our defense totally fell apart after the 15 minute mark. Every trip they had down after that was either a foul, an open trey, or an easy layup underneath.

It was beyond pathetic that our 4th year senior and lottery pick backcourt couldn't get the ball across halfcourt.

As to the reffing, it felt very lopsided. They getting calls & us not at game speed, but on every foul where they showed a slo mo re-play the calls were correct. Now admittedly, they didn't re-wind each foul, but all in all our D was pathetic and reaching.

 

[baggerbob]

The key plays of the game had nothing to do with the refs. In the 1st half at 3:53 fair threw the ball long to Triche, who if he was going to shoot should have tried to dunk the ball, instead tried to lay it up blocked out of bounds. Then on the inbounds pass Triche throws it short to MCW, Ware steals ball, missed layup Louisville rebounds, James picks up his 3rd foul. Then at end of half working for last shot Triche has ball stolen for a layup. Those few seconds changed the entire momentum of the game, James being in foul trouble, 4 points we didn't get, and 2 points they shouldn't have had. If we go into halftime up 39-20, with James not in foul trouble its a different ballgame.

 

[Ghost]

The key plays of the game had nothing to do with the refs. In the 1st half at 3:53 fair threw the ball long to Triche, who if he was going to shoot should have tried to dunk the ball, instead tried to lay it up blocked out of bounds. Then on the inbounds pass Triche throws it short to MCW, Ware steals ball, missed layup Louisville rebounds, James picks up his 3rd foul. Then at end of half working for last shot Triche has ball stolen for a layup. Those few seconds changed the entire momentum of the game, James being in foul trouble, 4 points we didn't get, and 2 points they shouldn't have had. If we go into halftime up 39-20, with James not in foul trouble its a different ballgame.

I do think allowing UL to ratchet up the pressure by being more physical impacted the game quite a bit tbh, but we certainly had our fair share of What unforced turnover moments, and those were a couple of killers. That third foul on James never should have happened - those TO's really changed the complexion of the game even if it wasn't so obvious at the time.

 

[alphaorange]

Well he had more turnovers (4) in the first half than he did in the second (3) and 1 of those was in the last minute of garbage time. So I don't think the one at the end of the half when he got trapped by a double team did anything to him.

Sent using my Commodore 64

Technically correct, but not functionally correct. MCW got credited for at least one TO in the second half because he was the passer and Triche didn't catch the ball leading to a TO. Passer gets credit because he had possession last, but in truth, BT was the cause. Happened on an out of bounds play as well. Sometimes, the numbers don't tell the entire story. One of the ways to handle such pressure is to go hard to the basket. Force the contact and make the ref call it. How many offensive fouls while driving hard did we get? I can't remember any. Aggressive beats passive every time.

 

[MSOrange]

It was not the refs fault.

It was not JBs fault (well except his role in coaching teams that cannot handle pressure defense).

The refs sucked, but the major suckage occurred after we were already 6-7 silly turnovers into the 2nd half. Valuing the ball is what led us on this mini run. However, you cannot devalue the ball like we did in the 2nd half, and expect to win. There might be a million reasons why bad Triche showed up in the second half, I don't know. Bad back. Psychological damage. I don't know, but it is frightful. How someone who has started 300 games and for seemingly 8 years, cannot receive an inbounds pass, or beat pressure is beyond me. His disease is contagious, and infected MCW, who ended up adding 4 TOs of his own, one and Ollie-like off the foot dribble.

I really feel this was our tournament, but the much better team won. It should have been the dean of the BE, JB up there writing that last chapter. But it was his fleeting 'protege', Pitino. Head, heart, and hustle won tonight. In the 2nd, we lost our head, eventually lost our hustle, then our heart, and lost.

This is a great assessment. I don't necessarily agree with all of your posts (I'm sure you will lose a lot of sleep about that , but I agree totally with this one.

 

[swish7]

This is a great assessment. I don't necessarily agree with all of your posts (I'm sure you will lose a lot of sleep about that , but I agree totally with this one.

Thanks man. I appreciate that. Like everyone, I know my posts and gut reactions can be wack sometimes. However, I am confident I'm shooting 90% on this one.

I could have included fatigue, but we started playing like crap well before we tired.

Blaming the refs and other factors are weak excuses.

 

[rrlbees]

The key plays of the game had nothing to do with the refs. In the 1st half at 3:53 fair threw the ball long to Triche, who if he was going to shoot should have tried to dunk the ball, instead tried to lay it up blocked out of bounds. Then on the inbounds pass Triche throws it short to MCW, Ware steals ball, missed layup Louisville rebounds, James picks up his 3rd foul. Then at end of half working for last shot Triche has ball stolen for a layup. Those few seconds changed the entire momentum of the game, James being in foul trouble, 4 points we didn't get, and 2 points they shouldn't have had. If we go into halftime up 39-20, with James not in foul trouble its a different ballgame.

You left out about 20 other bad plays. Even with the ones you listed we extended the lead to 16 in the 2nd half. That's when all hell broke loose.

Sent using my Commodore 64

 

[Chip]

I just hope the smackdown doesn't destroy our confidence.

I'm not as necessarily worried about overall confidence, because I think we'll destroy Montana, and then for the most part Louisville can be in the rear view mirror.

But if we have another lights out first half against a good team (perhaps Indiana), I'm worried that we'll play the 2nd half like a team waiting to lose. That's when I'm worried that it bites us. This team has to learn how to put the foot on the throat of a team when you have them down. I just don't think they believe in themselves enough to do it. They play like they're wondering when the other team will start their run.