The Stark Reality...

[OrangeXtreme]

And the lead Recruiter (Hopkins) left after a disappointing NIT season and the sanctions ending. So the effect of the sanctions and Hopkins leaving don't always show immediately but can linger for a couple of seasons down the road, like this year.

Recruiting and player development have to improve quickly, I still have some faith left that it can be done, im not sure I have the patience for it

Look at our Junior class: Sidibe, Marek, and Washington. All recruited during the sanction period.

Where would we be without the Prophet Elijah !!

 

[jdubs30]

Look at our Junior class: Sidibe, Marek, and Washington. All recruited during the sanction period.

Where would we be without the Prophet Elijah !!

And JB signed Marek off a YouTube video

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Assuming sanctions were a big factor in this. Whose fault were the sanctions, at the end of the day?

Do you believe it was the NCAA out to get Syracuse? I would be OK if you thought that.

I'm of the opinion that the head coach has oversight of the program. During his tenure, there have been two separate postseason bans. The first was a "slap on the wrist" with the other stuff. This time, since it was his second set of infractions, they hit us harder.

Ultimately, it's on the guy who won't take any ownership of any of his faults.

JB never failed any drug tests.
JB never wrote a paper for a student.
JB never ate a chicken sandwich at the YMCA.

IMO the guy who owns the company can't be held responsible for the conduct of all his employees 24/7/365.

In your opinion, it might not be JB's fault, but yeah, it's JB's fault.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[DilemaCuse]

Look at our Junior class: Sidibe, Marek, and Washington. All recruited during the sanction period.

Where would we be without the Prophet Elijah !!

That class included Oshae and a transfer in Geno Thorpe (hardly knew ya) And I believe this staff preferred Washington over Tremont Waters who went to LSU and NBA, to round out the class, Yikes! Not sure what they are scouting and evaluating.
The Sophomore class is even worse and why the team is behind schedule. Bazley never showed, Carey has had zero impact after 2 seasons. Those were the top 2 recruits in that class that are non-existent right now.
Buddy has been a pleasant surprise but now teams know how to prevent him from getting open looks and
Braswell has barely been able to play this year.
So there are no seniors, and subpar junior and sophomore classes. Imperative to develop the freshman and need to hit on Kadary and Woody. Not sure if it will be enough.

 

[SUFan44]

JB never failed any drug tests.
JB never wrote a paper for a student.
JB never ate a chicken sandwich at the YMCA.

IMO the guy who owns the company can't be held responsible for the conduct of all his employees 24/7/365.

In your opinion, it might not be JB's fault, but yeah, it's JB's fault.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

The failed drug tests weren't the issue. It was the fact that the program did not adhere to the athletic department's drug testing policies and procedures. That is directly on the head coach.

Programs don't get in trouble for having kids smoke weed. They get in trouble when they know the kid smoked weed, failed a drug test, then don't punish the kid as mandated by the school's policy.

As for the other things, yes -- they are minor. The Fab Melo stuff was ridiculous. But the fact of the matter is, all of these things came after the NCAA did a full investigation. And I do believe (again, my belief) that the actions were a direct result of his pompous and completely defiant initial statements after the Bernie Fine situation, and also wasn't helped by his less-than-stellar relationship with Oliver Luck, the NCAA president at the time.

He's always been cavalier in his attitude to people outside the program, reporters, and anyone that dare question his program and leadership. People take offense a lot of the time, and go out of their way to make sure they get him.

 

[MikeSU02]

JB never failed any drug tests.
JB never wrote a paper for a student.
JB never ate a chicken sandwich at the YMCA.

IMO the guy who owns the company can't be held responsible for the conduct of all his employees 24/7/365.

In your opinion, it might not be JB's fault, but yeah, it's JB's fault.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Listen, I hate the NCAA as much as everyone else here, but two things:

1) what occurred was worse than what you wrote.

2) JB has never, and will never, be mistaken for a guy who runs a tight ship in terms of player discipline.

I get other programs have done worse and skated by, but JB has to take some of the blame here.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

The failed drug tests weren't the issue. It was the fact that the program did not adhere to the athletic department's drug testing policies and procedures. That is directly on the head coach.

Programs don't get in trouble for having kids smoke weed. They get in trouble when they know the kid smoked weed, failed a drug test, then don't punish the kid as mandated by the school's policy.

As for the other things, yes -- they are minor. The Fab Melo stuff was ridiculous. But the fact of the matter is, all of these things came after the NCAA did a full investigation. And I do believe (again, my belief) that the actions were a direct result of his pompous and completely defiant initial statements after the Bernie Fine situation, and also wasn't helped by his less-than-stellar relationship with Oliver Luck, the NCAA president at the time.

He's always been cavalier in his attitude to people outside the program, reporters, and anyone that dare question his program and leadership. People take offense a lot of the time, and go out of their way to make sure they get him.

You asked me earlier if I thought the NCAA was out to get JB.

SEC Football schools get away with far worse every year without penalty.

Pay Pal Cal's entire recruiting class leaves school early and they never get an APR hit.

And we all know about UNC's History classes and how the NCAA kicked that can down the road.

Clearly there are two different sets of rules in play here.

 

[pearl31]

I love when the anti-Boeheim crowd, cocksure and righteous in the midst of a losing streak, offer up this garbage and call it REALITY and yammer about certain up-for-debate opinions they’ve glommed onto as FACTS.

 

[orange79]

I love when the anti-Boeheim crowd, cocksure and righteous in the midst of a losing streak, offer up this garbage and call it REALITY and yammer about certain up-for-debate opinions they’ve glommed onto as FACTS.

I am thinking of teaching a class: Facts vs. Opinions - How to Tell the Difference

There are many here who could benefit.

 

[SUFan44]

I love when the anti-Boeheim crowd, cocksure and righteous in the midst of a losing streak, offer up this garbage and call it REALITY and yammer about certain up-for-debate opinions they’ve glommed onto as FACTS.

Name one thing from my original post that’s an opinion.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

He has clearly cherry picked to fit his or her narrative.

My favorite is how he mentions our best player and leading scorer is probably leaving with 1 year of eligibility remaining without mentioning his sit out year for transferring or that he will probably have his degree because he has been in college 4 years.

Carry on.

The premise of his post is that we’ve declined in talent and have been on a downward trend competitively. That can’t be disputed.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I believe that sanctions contributed.

Based on your OP, you don't even acknowledge that sanctions happened. Only that recruiting mysteriously dropped off a cliff. That's like writing a book about the Titanic, and failing to mention the iceberg.

Fact: SU was limited to the number of coaches it could send on recruiting trips.

Fact: SU was restricted to the number of scholarship players it could have.

I'll leave it up to the jury to decide if sanctions had a negative influence on recruiting.

Hopkins leaving is the primary reason for a decline in recruiting

 

[orange79]

Hopkins leaving is the primary reason for a decline in recruiting, in my opinion.

Fixed that for you.

Many would disagree.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Fixed that for you.

Many would disagree.

I hate passive voice...but thanks for trying.

There are two schools of thought here. You certainly understand where I stand.

 

[orange79]

I hate passive voice...but thanks for trying.

There are two schools of thought here. You certainly understand where I stand.

Frankly, I don't care if you hate it or not. You posted an opinion, but stated it as fact. But thanks for trying.

And yes, we all know where you stand.

 

[jdubs30]

I hate passive voice...but thanks for trying.

There are two schools of thought here. You certainly understand where I stand.

I think they both have clearly had an effect but it’s impossible to say which is more impactful

 

[orangecuse]

Name one thing from my original post that’s an opinion.

I'll play. Mostly because I'm wondering if I should sign up for orange79's "Facts vs. Opinions" class if he so kindly chooses to teach it.

I highlighted in bold below what I view as opinion vs. fact in your OP, is that correct?


There is a strong possibility that this team will not beat a team ranked in the final Top 25 poll during the regular season.

This would mark the first time since the 2001-02 season that a Syracuse team has not defeated a team ranked in the final AP Top 25 poll.

Additionally, there's a strong chance (greater than 90%, according to most) that our leading scorer and best player will be leaving with additional eligibility remaining.

This would mark the seventh time in eight years that a significant member of the team has left with eligibility remaining. Bolded players are ones drafted, and bolded underlined players are those still in the NBA.

2019-20: Elijah Hughes
2018-19: Tyus Battle, Oshae Brissett
2017-18: None
2016-17: Tyler Lydon
2015-16: Malachi Richardson
2014-15: Chris McCullough
2013-14: Tyler Ennis, Jerami Grant
2012-13: Michael Carter-Williams

This is not a commentary about whether anyone should have left or not. Just a simple look at the quality of player we have had leave the program in recent years. It has diminished.

James Arthur Boeheim is a legend and will continue to be a Syracuse icon long after he retires. He has done a ton of good for the program.

But over the last six years, the level have play has deteriorated to the point that the Orange has lost an average of 13.2 games per season.

In no season over the last six has Syracuse been ranked in the Top 10, and the team has had 12 or more losses during the regular season every single year.

In Boeheim's first 38 years, he lost 12 games in a regular season exactly ONE other time (2007-08). And before you start saying "Oh, well, teams play more games now than ever during the regular season," here's a quick look, every five years, of what the number of regular season games played were:

2018-19: 31; 2013-14: 31; 2008-09 - 31; 2003-04 - 27; 1998-99 - 29; 1993-94 - 26; 1988-89 - 30; 1983-84 - 26

So if you were to add one loss to each of the loss totals for teams that played less than 30 games, you'd add two teams to the list: 1981-82 & 1996-97

Two fringe Top 100 players coming in, grad transfers, no Top 30 recruits in the pipeline except one -- and who knows if that will ever come to fruition with the new NBA rules pending.

The team has improved this year, but it's time for a change. The numbers do not lie.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I think they both have clearly had an effect but it’s impossible to say which is more impactful

Peace...But at least I accept both as a contributer.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

Frankly, I don't care if you hate it or not. You posted an opinion, but stated it as fact. But thanks for trying.

And yes, we all know where you stand.

You didn’t get it...

In my opinion, ...

That is active voice...

..., in my opinion

Is passive voice...

 

[hoopsupstate]

The staff’s lack of point guard evaluation is a big factor in our poor play. They struck out with everyone after Ennis left. Joe Girard is a pleasant surprise, but I don’t think the staff actually recruited him as a point guard. Hopkins was involved in a couple of the misses.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Listen, I hate the NCAA as much as everyone else here, but two things:

1) what occurred was worse than what you wrote.

2) JB has never, and will never, be mistaken for a guy who runs a tight ship in terms of player discipline.

I get other programs have done worse and skated by, but JB has to take some of the blame here.

You would think that a guy who all but made the Syracuse basketball what it is...who put the Syracuse basketball program on the map would’ve exercised a little more attention to detail after getting nailed once and having the program set back a few years.

You would think.

 

[orange79]

You didn’t get it...

In my opinion, ...

That is active voice...

..., in my opinion

Is passive voice...

It's a message board. Active/passive is often lost.

Regardless, you didn't state "in my opinion" anywhere.

 

[Oakland]

You may be right but they are not much different than the pro-Boeheim crowd during a 5 game winning streak.

I love when the anti-Boeheim crowd, cocksure and righteous in the midst of a losing streak, offer up this garbage and call it REALITY and yammer about certain up-for-debate opinions they’ve glommed onto as FACTS.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

It's a message board. Active/passive is often lost.

Regardless, you didn't state "in my opinion" anywhere.

Is that a new rule? Everything that everyone writes on this board is by definition an opinion...wow...

 

[CU44SE]

we haven’t had a center since rak. Some of our best defenses have been when we have a great interior center who can take away the paint. Jimmy and crew have not recruited or brought in a player to be that guy. He has played Lyndon and marek at center (and complained several times that they are too small to play that position). But then I ask who is responsible for not having an adequate replacement? If the recruiters are not getting it done (yes I know we had some sanctions, and some of it believe it or not is JB’s fault. For example having a drug policy and not enforcing it, literally the only way you can get in trouble is by not enforcing it, hell, you don’t even need one in place. So yes, even how petty it is, that is 100% on JB.). Back to the second point, if the recruiters and assistants are not getting it done then changes should be made. Yes, these assistants played for Syracuse, jimmy is a loyal person, but at some point changes need to be made. College sports is a results business. The bottom line, JB and crew have not been getting it done in recent years. Either in not developing talent and/or in not getting the right players.