The state of eastern football

[Hoo's That]

Your statement is a bleeping joke it reeks of first class troll material. The WHOLE THING IS JOE PATERNO'S FAULT. The greedy ahole wouldn't treat everyone as equals when they wanted to create an Eastern football/basketball league. The guy was the Penn State AD and only wanted to play 2 for 1s with his so called conference mates. The guy didn't want to treat everyone as equals and then the Big East conference formed and boom it blew up. However, continue telling us you feel bad for Penn State and WVU lol their clown of an AD has them on an island in the Big XII. SU/BC have access to recruiting in FL, SC, NC, GA. Congrats for trolling.

^^^This. I remember the shock that everyone expressed when Paterno took them to the B1G. PSU had nothing in common with the B1G as it existed back then, and many PSU folks would argue they still don't. Paterno might have gotten away with making Temple give him 2-for-1, but the others? I still can't decide if he was incredibly brave or incredibly stupid to demand that deal of SU, Pitt, and WVU.

 

[tep624]

Somebody on another board I frequent had this to say, and I gotta agree with it:

It's pretty much the whole northeast. Syracuse, BC, UConn, UMass, Rutgers, Buffalo, Army (I give them a pass), etc. And the worst part is all of them seem to have a hard on for old-school football and ex-defensive coordinators and won't hire a new coach who'll try something different. There are always going to be the inherent facility and recruiting disadvantages, and yet plenty of FCS schools make noise with high-octane attacks, but guys like Chip Kelly, Brian Kelly, Mark Whipple, Bobby Wilder all had to leave the area to get head coaching gigs. Even a guy like Paul Johnson would be a good hire because he would bring something unique and different, which is your best chance of beating teams with more money, fans, and better recruiting areas than you.

Greg Robinson tried to bring something different to Syracuse. Different isn't always better.

 

[tep624]

Its too late now Eastern foot ball is dead. Syracuse will be regulated to the ACC trash heap along w/ BC. Penn State will never play for a national championship. Rutgers will be happy to receive its welfare check from the big 10. WV might be in the best position in its state of western limbo. There is hope for UCONN if they find the football equivalent of Jim Calhoun. Temple could win 7/8 games w/ like Uconn, the right coach. I really don't feel sorry for the schools except Penn state & WV. The others prostituted themselves for money instead of doing everything they could to solidify the east and now are getting pimp slapped including SU.

It's a credit to Missouri that they stood by the Big 12 in it's time of need and didn't leave for greener pastures in the SEC - oh wait. Dipshit.

 

[syr02esq]

Look at every recruiting source and see where the players are coming from: it's not the east. There is something special about the south: year-round practice and a football culture. Baseball is very similar - the best schools are located in warm places.

You may be able to hire a great coach or build better facilities, but you can't create a culture overnight nor can you change the climate.

How do you explain New Jersey or Pennsylvania?

 

[WoadBlue]

Its too late now Eastern foot ball is dead. Syracuse will be regulated to the ACC trash heap along w/ BC. Penn State will never play for a national championship. Rutgers will be happy to receive its welfare check from the big 10. WV might be in the best position in its state of western limbo. There is hope for UCONN if they find the football equivalent of Jim Calhoun. Temple could win 7/8 games w/ like Uconn, the right coach. I really don't feel sorry for the schools except Penn state & WV. The others prostituted themselves for money instead of doing everything they could to solidify the east and now are getting pimp slapped including SU.

Only PSU and WVU did not prostitute themselves?

Are you nuts?

JoePa ran for the biggest money while turning his back against northeastern teams. He was so obsessed with getting into the richest conference that he refused to consider the ACC.

WVU fled the BE for the money of the Big 12.

The fact is that college football has such a low level of popularity in the northeast, and the region produces so few top players, that no all northeastern league could ever be better than the weakest major conference. Even with Penn St, the BE would have required ND and/or schools in the South like VT and Miami. Even Morgantown, WV is below the Mason-Dixon line.

That unavoidable fact means that every school in the northeast that wants to play 1A football either gets into a conference based in the South or the midwest (meaning ACC or Big Ten) or else must be a mid-major.

 

[WoadBlue]

Bingo. On the plus side, the field is wide open for any Northeastern team to be THE team in the region. And that could be an ACC school with it's unique ability to have both exposure and the opportunity to play in the South.

But I think you are right on. I think Northeastern schools want in their hearts to all do what Stanford does. But Stanford is the extreme exception when it comes to these "haven't been good, shouldn't be all that good, but damn they're good" schools. Frankly, I don't know how they do it, but I guess it probably has something to do with being able to offer QBs and O Linemen a Stanford education, Palo Alto setting, and an unparalleled alumni network.

But the reality is that schools that overcome big disadvantages of tradition or talent have done so by utilizing non-standard schemes. I don't care whether you are Baylor or Duke or Vandy or Texas Tech or Boston College or Syracuse, it's just a losing battle to try to win with a system that requires a 6'4" rocket armed QB or 6'1" CBs and 300 lb DTs that run a 4.6.

There is just simply too much ground to make up for Northeastern teams to strive to play purely physically dominating football to long term success. Despite the stellar histories of Syracuse and Pitt, unfortunately being in an area that is very disadvantaged as far as talent, and very lukewarm in terms of fan support and therefore facilities, those schools are definitely in the "disadvantaged" category. And I mean no disrespect. There just aren't enough legit D1 athletes in these areas, and it's not getting any better. It's just getting worse, and will continue to do so.

Baylor and Texas Tech KNOW they are never going to get first (or second, third or fourth) pick of kids in Texas. GT KNOWS it will never be able to recruit the kinds of kids that Georgia, Florida State and Clemson can admit.

Schools that have been able to somewhat overcome severe disadvantages are ones that have figured out how to utilize a 5'10 receiver, or a quarterback with a quick release but a weak arm. Are they winning national titles, no. But they have put themselves on a different competitive level, and someday will...Oregon may this year.

The first step I think is for Northeastern schools to admit to themselves that they really are at a huge disadvantage due to local talent and support. I just don't think people want to appreciate just how far away they are from being able to match up physically with the top teams and utilize that. They can go into Georgia or Florida and get a kid who has played against the best of the best in high school competition, but isn't getting looks from UGA, Bama or FSU.

I think the Northeastern school that breaks out is one that rolls the dice with innovative coaching minds that can at least somewhat level the playing field. They need to put in a system that will be a selling point for a certain kind of talented kid. And with success, and being the most successful program in the region, they will slowly be able to get the attention of more traditional athletes I think, like what happened at Oregon, where they now have legit big boy athletes running that system.

I just don't see anyone being able to channel '86 Penn State to national prominence.

And that is the reason I say that the next hire by one of the ACC's northern schools should be a coach like Mike Leach or Bobby Petrino. Those guys can win with lesser talent, and they draw fans to the stadium and to TV sets.

 

[Townie72]

The Balkanization of the east has brought my worst fears to fruition. Their is not a single eastern school even receiving votes in the latest pole. Whether its the Big Ten, Acc or big 12 every eastern school is on the outside looking in. Wake up people, things won't be changing. These are the inevitable consequences of chasing a false narrative.

No one misses the Major Eastern Indy period more than I do. But you can't make a real conference out of eitght teams unless you want to be the Ivy League.

There never really was an opportunity to make the East into a great football or all sports conference. The problem is that there weren't enough schools at any time who would have made up a really competitive conference.

The universe of schools that might have made it up include:
Syracuse
Penn State
Pitt
BC
Army
Navy
WVU
Rutgers
Conn
Temple

Maryland was never an Eastern school. It has always been in either the Southern Conference or the ACC. So constructing a fantasy Eastern Conference with Maryland seems to me to be a fantasy.

Army and Navy were fine in the 1950's and 1960's, but they both de-emphasized football starting in the early 1980's. Their admissions standards prevent them from recruiting the size and kind of athletes it became necessary to have to compete.

Rutgers played a 1AA schedule through the 1970's with Lehigh and Lafayette as their "rivals". Even when they improved their schedule, it too until 2005 for them to be competitive.

UConn was IAA until a few years ago when they were attracted by the lure of big money for upgrading.

Temple has been a train wreck since the 1930's.

So the Eastern Conference that might exist would be:

Penn State
Pitt
WVU
Syracuse
BC
Rutgers
Temple
UConn

Three points:

1. This is still the Northeast where football is far from King. It's a cult sport overpowered by the NFL, kids soccer games, shopping and raking leaves.

2. This isn't exactly a "Murderer's Row" of powerhouse football teams. It resembles the Big Ten without Ohio State and Michigan. For basketball it's pretty bad.

3. Most importantly, eight teams isn't enough, You can't get to a real 2013 Conference with 8 teams. Where do you get the additional teams from and keep it an "Eastern Conference"?

VT? Nope that's in Virginia and they are happy where they are since its where they always wanted to be?

Miami? If they weren't in the ACC they would be in the SEC.

To get to 11 or 12 teams you'd have to start casting the net wider and wider and letting in smaller market teams.

The Eastern Conference was never going to happen.

 

[Alsacs]

No one misses the Major Eastern Indy period more than I do. But you can't make a real conference out of eitght teams unless you want to be the Ivy League.

There never really was an opportunity to make the East into a great football or all sports conference. The problem is that there weren't enough schools at any time who would have made up a really competitive conference.

The universe of schools that might have made it up include:
Syracuse
Penn State
Pitt
BC
Army
Navy
WVU
Rutgers
Conn
Temple

Maryland was never an Eastern school. It has always been in either the Southern Conference or the ACC. So constructing a fantasy Eastern Conference with Maryland seems to me to be a fantasy.

Army and Navy were fine in the 1950's and 1960's, but they both de-emphasized football starting in the early 1980's. Their admissions standards prevent them from recruiting the size and kind of athletes it became necessary to have to compete.

Rutgers played a 1AA schedule through the 1970's with Lehigh and Lafayette as their "rivals". Even when they improved their schedule, it too until 2005 for them to be competitive.

UConn was IAA until a few years ago when they were attracted by the lure of big money for upgrading.

Temple has been a train wreck since the 1930's.

So the Eastern Conference that might exist would be:

Penn State
Pitt
WVU
Syracuse
BC
Rutgers
Temple
UConn

Three points:

1. This is still the Northeast where football is far from King. It's a cult sport overpowered by the NFL, kids soccer games, shopping and raking leaves.

2. This isn't exactly a "Murderer's Row" of powerhouse football teams. It resembles the Big Ten without Ohio State and Michigan. For basketball it's pretty bad.

3. Most importantly, eight teams isn't enough, You can't get to a real 2013 Conference with 8 teams. Where do you get the additional teams from and keep it an "Eastern Conference"?

VT? Nope that's in Virginia and they are happy where they are since its where they always wanted to be?

Miami? If they weren't in the ACC they would be in the SEC.

To get to 11 or 12 teams you'd have to start casting the net wider and wider and letting in smaller market teams.

The Eastern Conference was never going to happen.

What should have happened was that the ACC schools and Eastern Indepednents came together and said we will have 2 conferences with an alliance for a Football championship, and maybe a conference challenge between the conferences in basketball. Miami would like being with the Northeast schools because of its alumni being from there.
Conference 1
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Boston College
Temple
Rutgers
West Virginia
Connecticut
Miami

ACC
North Carolina
NC State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Duke
Maryland
Wake Forest
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Each conference would have its own football conference, 1 championship game, a true round robin in basketball, 1 game from a challenge series with each other and 4 games to schedule in the non-conference.

 

[Townie72]

What should have happened was that the ACC schools and Eastern Indepednents came together and said we will have 2 conferences with an alliance for a Football championship, and maybe a conference challenge between the conferences in basketball. Miami would like being with the Northeast schools because of its alumni being from there.
.

Why "should" this have happened?

I guess it "should" have happen if the goal was to keep a Northeast Conference. But few had that as a goal. Everyone who was asked by the ACC or the B1G to abandon a Northeast conference accepted the invitation. So there apparently wasn't all that much interest even among the Northeast schools themselves in having this Northeast Conference.

Alsac's recommendation above calls for Miami to join a conference in which their closest school is Temple. I know that they have a huge NE alumni contingent ... but I don't think that would fly for practical reasons. And furthermore he is suggesting a never-been-done-before alliance between Conferences.

It's all a valiant --- and not uncreative --- attempt to cobble together a N.E conference that has too few schools, too few "marquis" schools and not enough fan interest.

It was just never going to work unless these other conferences stood completely still and never expanded.

 

[rosconey]

What should have happened was that the ACC schools and Eastern Indepednents came together and said we will have 2 conferences with an alliance for a Football championship, and maybe a conference challenge between the conferences in basketball. Miami would like being with the Northeast schools because of its alumni being from there.
Conference 1
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Boston College
Temple
Rutgers
West Virginia
Connecticut
Miami

ACC
North Carolina
NC State
Virginia
Virginia Tech
Duke
Maryland
Wake Forest
Florida State
Clemson
Georgia Tech

Each conference would have its own football conference, 1 championship game, a true round robin in basketball, 1 game from a challenge series with each other and 4 games to schedule in the non-conference.

right like they could work together- its all about the money we can get-screw everyone else

 

[Resonator]

And that is the reason I say that the next hire by one of the ACC's northern schools should be a coach like Mike Leach or Bobby Petrino. Those guys can win with lesser talent, and they draw fans to the stadium and to TV sets.

Just look at Louisville. Schnellenberger, Smith, Petrino. All offensive-minded HC's. Even their disastrous hire, Kragthorpe, was an offensive guy.

If you want a modern model, look at Texas Tech, and, what they did with Spike Dykes, and, Mike Leach. They had 18 straight winning seasons from 1993-2010. And, they did it with a wide-open offensive philosophy. You want more? Until the 2011 season TTU was the ONLY school in the history of the Big 12 to have not had a losing record in the league's short history.

If any eastern team gets a hold of a HC like that, they can make some real noise nationally.

 

[SmilinBob]

Maybe Colgate and Army can be major players as well. Times, they are and have changed...I understand the past ties to northeastern football but to me a lot of that nostalgic past is gone forever like the iceman coming to your house.

As for a coach, I like what SU has as a HC as long as he continues to grow and doesn't do the "I smashed into the wall yesterday and didn't get through it, maybe if I change my shoes it'll work this time" kind of thinking. There's believing in something and then there is believing in something. In other words, you have your beliefs and you stick to them even if you're going into the depths of hell or you can recognize what's happening and adjust/tweak. Some coaches just can not fathom that their crap just ain't going to work and just never get it. Or, it did work earlier but just have never been effective since but continue to use it. The best coaches adjust and learn, especially from failure...I'm very curious in seeing if SS is that kind of coach.

To me, HCSS's core is very good. Now, if he continues to grow as a coach and can recognize aspects that work and those that don't...I think we'll be fine. We don't need some flash in the pan idea but that being said, we also don't need a guy that's scared to make a mistake or go for that big plus. Estime comes to mind for me. Desire catches the ball and is decent at running the ball back but Estime is a game breaker. Desire catches difficult kicks and doesn't let the ball roll 5 to 15 yards so as SS said "It's like gaining that yardage" but Estime could snap off a long run or TD. This is where I find out a bit of who SS is and might be in the future. Go for it, or play it safe.