The team we expected is emerging? | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

The team we expected is emerging?

First of all, if you get a chance to hoist 13 shots and you're a shooter like EH, hitting 6 wouldn't be insane, remember that insane was what we were talking about. I watch a ton of hoops, including attending plenty (on all levels) and give plenty of advice to a current D1 player. So I guess that wasn't directed towards me. Everyone on this board aren't idiots when it comes to ball.

It is quite insane since nobody has ever done that in college ever and the guy were talking about is shooting 37% on the year from there.
 
I respect your optimism, but I want to see us win some quality games without Elijah going insane from deep before I think we are a tourney-level team.

Above is Eric's post that is the basis for this discussion. It's about this one game. Nobody said anything about shooting that for the year. I'll stand by, I wouldn't consider it insane for EH to shoot 6-13 from deep.
 
It is quite insane since nobody has ever done that in college ever and the guy were talking about is shooting 37% on the year from there.
I really like Hughes' stroke. I am hoping that he takes 6-10 threes per game and gets his percentage up to about 42%. I bet we would all be very happy with that and the team would be winning plenty of games.
 
I really like Hughes' stroke. I am hoping that he takes 6-10 threes per game and gets his percentage up to about 42%. I bet we would all be very happy with that and the team would be winning plenty of games.
If he Shoots 10 threes a game and makes 42 percent of them...he’ll be one of the best Shooters in school history...I’d be thrilled with 38 percent
 
I really like Hughes' stroke. I am hoping that he takes 6-10 threes per game and gets his percentage up to about 42%. I bet we would all be very happy with that and the team would be winning plenty of games.

So, you’ll be very happy if he’s basically the best 3pt shooter in modern SU history? ;)

(Monroe & Roe were the shorter 3pt line)

Syracuse Orange Season Three Point Leader
 
So, you’ll be very happy if he’s basically the best 3pt shooter in modern SU history? ;)

(Monroe & Roe were the shorter 3pt line)

Syracuse Orange Season Three Point Leader
I didn’t realize it would put him that high, but I do think it is a number that isn’t crazy for him. Perhaps 40% is still lofty, but more realistic.
 
for this team to emerge, it starts with oshae and frank playing as well as they did last season. if that happens, then we can move on to other issues.

Here's the thing though, we actually need Oshae and Frank to play better than last year, not the same, and certainly not any worse. This team lost 14 games last year, and it had a lot to do with the inconsistency of both Oshae and Frank at times, and O had several games where he seemingly just disappeared if I recall correctly.

I think with winning those three tourney games (even though all by the skin of one's teeth) we all hoped that coming back everyone would be better. Combining that with the addition of Hughes and Carey, the loftier expectations and top 15 preseason ranking. It shouldn't be too much to ask or hope that these two would've improved, even slightly, otherwise just as JB stated, this is the same team that lost 14 games.
 
I didn’t realize it would put him that high, but I do think it is a number that isn’t crazy for him. Perhaps 40% is still lofty, but more realistic.

Yeah, I agree, certainly from an optics standpoint, his J is beautiful. And, with his decent size and athleticism, I don't think it's outside the realm that he could end up going down as one of our best shooters ever. Time will tell of course.
 
Here's the thing though, we actually need Oshae and Frank to play better than last year, not the same, and certainly not any worse. This team lost 14 games last year, and it had a lot to do with the inconsistency of both Oshae and Frank at times, and O had several games where he seemingly just disappeared if I recall correctly.

I think with winning those three tourney games (even though all by the skin of one's teeth) we all hoped that coming back everyone would be better. Combining that with the addition of Hughes and Carey, the loftier expectations and top 15 preseason ranking. It shouldn't be too much to ask or hope that these two would've improved, even slightly, otherwise just as JB stated, this is the same team that lost 14 games.
Improvement can come from many places. Frank still doesn't seem to be the same as he was pre-injury. Most likely his upside is to get back to last year's level. No reason Oshae can't step it up between now and the end of the season. Hughes represents a definite step forward. Carey is capable of more, will it happen this season or next ?

I was really hoping that marek could pickup where he left off last season. That has not happened.

I am one of the few that still thinks buddy just might find a role.

The one area I am pessimistic is on our centers. I really doubt we will see any meaningful improvement from that spot.
 
How long are we going to give Frank excuses? Yes, I see a little improvement but I have never been a believer in Frank and think Carey might make more mistakes but is more dynamic and will make for a better team by the end of the year if we utilize him more.
Carey is a good player but needs more experience before he can be trusted to run the offense for extended periods. If you like dynamic mistakes over overall solid performance then he's your man.

I'm not sure why you don't like Frank but if you can 't conceive of what the team will be like when he gets back to last year's form I don't know what to tell you.
 
I really like Hughes' stroke. I am hoping that he takes 6-10 threes per game and gets his percentage up to about 42%. I bet we would all be very happy with that and the team would be winning plenty of games.
If he Shoots 10 threes a game and makes 42 percent of them...he’ll be one of the best Shooters in school history...I’d be thrilled with 38 percent
the difference between 38 and 42 percent is really quite negligible. assume he continues his current pace and takes about 7 threes per game. that's 217 attempts in a 31 game season. 42% is 91.14 makes, 38 is 82.46. round them down and the difference is just 9 makes over the span of 31 games, less than 1/3 a basket per game. funny to think that one shot a week that goes half way down & then pops out can be the difference in perception between a good & a very good shooter
 
we can't have both our forwards outside falling in love with the three. who's gonna board ?
 
we can't have both our forwards outside falling in love with the three. who's gonna board ?
This is why I was happy w Dolezaj improvement on the boards. If we can get that out of him every game I have no problem w Hughes being on the perimeter on offense w Oshae and Marek in the paint.
 
the difference between 38 and 42 percent is really quite negligible. assume he continues his current pace and takes about 7 threes per game. that's 217 attempts in a 31 game season. 42% is 91.14 makes, 38 is 82.46. round them down and the difference is just 9 makes over the span of 31 games, less than 1/3 a basket per game. funny to think that one shot a week that goes half way down & then pops out can be the difference in perception between a good & a very good shooter

i dont really agree with the notion that scoring one more point on the same number of shots by 1 player per game is insignificant.
 
I can't wait until Buddy comes in and starts hitting the 3 with more regularity. It's going to happen, his stroke is just too good. Once that does happen, what a spark that will be coming off the bench along with Carey continuing to improve.
 
I think this season (and this game) come down to rebounding.

Brissett has to get 8 or more rebounds just about every game for us to be competitive in conference play. He needs to spend a lot of time down low. I know he doesn't like it but it has to happen.

Hughes has to be willing to do dirty work down low, like he did against ND but has not most games to date.

Marek has to bang down low and get his share of rebounds. He has not done well in this area this season. This has to change.

Sidibe and Chukwu must also contribute here. If they aren't going to score, they have to at least play decent defense and rebound.

And the guards need to help here too. Battle and Howard should get alot more rebounds than they have been doing. It was good to see Tyus get 5 against the Irish.

We have a lot of guys I would categorize as finesse players who are not, by nature, predisposed to hitting the boards. I hope they hit them the rest of the season.
 
Here's the problem with the idea of "The Team We Were Expecting".

The imaginary Team We Were Expecting was a figment of our imagination or at least the imaginations of those who were expecting a much better team in the beginning part of the season.

It's easy to see how this comes about if you just dissect some of these pre-season and early season posts in which these high expectations are set.

First, the optomists usually set the best part of the past season as the floor they expect in the upcoming seaason. For example, the SU defense at the end of 2018-19 becomes a new baseline.

Second, they assume that all the returning players will improve, especially in their areas of relative weakness. They believe Marek will gain 20lbs of muscle, Chewy will develop and inside offensive game and Oshae will figure out how to finish. That these players might not change or improve or even regress isn't part of their calculations.

Third, they look at the incoming players from video clips, or press snippets or"star" ratings that are based on some pretty flaky judgements.

So, it's all pretty logical. Improved returning players (playing fewer minutes) + Great incoming players = A better Team.

When that doesn't happen, disappointment sets in and blame starts being assigned with the coaching being the usual target.

Beyond that a lot of attention is paid to coming up with explanations as to why their optimism hasn't panned out. This year it's Frank's injury.

Little attention is paid or weight given to team chemistry or how this particular set of players is going to operate together. To the extent that the team we saw against ND is better than the one we saw against UConn, the explanation is not in individual players getting better but in the players and JB better understanding what works and what doesn't with this particular group.

Optimism is fine, even fun. But when it leads to mood swings, frustration and vitriol, it ain't.
 
. . . .
The imaginary Team We Were Expecting was a figment of our imagination . . . . . .
To the extent that the team we saw against ND is better than the one we saw against UConn, the explanation is not in individual players getting better but in the players and JB better understanding what works and what doesn't with this particular group.

Optimism is fine, even fun. ...

Yes, optimism is better, even when it takes some imagination (Dolezaj adding needed muscle, Chukwu & Sidibe finding some game). We have seen good play in two road games (OSU and ND). The explanations may be match-ups, a burst of good shooting, luck, or understanding what works, or Frank's ankle getting better. I think, as Frank returns to form, we have a good core group, other than at center, and valid reasons to be optimistic based on Hughes providing the extra juice we did expect. The weakness at center is going to hold us back, but hopefully, we get enough wins to be relevant in March. Optimism is fun.
 
Yes, optimism is better, even when it takes some imagination (Dolezaj adding needed muscle, Chukwu & Sidibe finding some game). We have seen good play in two road games (OSU and ND). The explanations may be match-ups, a burst of good shooting, luck, or understanding what works, or Frank's ankle getting better. I think, as Frank returns to form, we have a good core group, other than at center, and valid reasons to be optimistic based on Hughes providing the extra juice we did expect. The weakness at center is going to hold us back, but hopefully, we get enough wins to be relevant in March. Optimism is fun.
I don't think we are weak at center. This is the formula that Boeheim has employed for the center position for a long time. In his system the center position is 90% a defensive position that creates a low percentage shooting area closer to the rim. Now we have 15 fouls to give at that position, never had that before. So in that light, our center position is the strongest it's ever been. I think there will be some offensive improvement from that position as the season goes on, which will be a huge bonus.
 
the difference between 38 and 42 percent is really quite negligible. assume he continues his current pace and takes about 7 threes per game. that's 217 attempts in a 31 game season. 42% is 91.14 makes, 38 is 82.46. round them down and the difference is just 9 makes over the span of 31 games, less than 1/3 a basket per game. funny to think that one shot a week that goes half way down & then pops out can be the difference in perception between a good & a very good shooter

Couldn't agree more. I made the exact same argument about Frank in another thread -- last year over 37 games one more hoop every third game makes him a 40% shooter overall and one three every 2.5 games makes him a 40% shooter. The anti-Franks said woulda coulda shoulda, so what, fergettaboutit, blew it off. But I betcha the Hughesians love it.
 

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