The Upside and the Downside of Trevor Cooney

[tbonezone]

well now we've already got 4 ex syracuse guards on the bench who never made the nba. not sure we need another one.
how about somebody to coach the BIGS ? etan thomas, louie or bouie come on down !

 

[CusefanATL]

You thought Louie McCroskey was good?

Why cant I find OttoMets post anywhere in this thread? i want to see the context of it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Why cant I find OttoMets post anywhere in this thread? i want to see the context of it.

He never said he was good. He was identifying players that he thought weren't great starters here and had Wright, Thues, and Joseph listed but not McCroskey...

 

[CaliCuse]

No I didn't say that. I said Pearl was my favorite of all time. And if I had listed more than just Pearl it would have included Smith, Kohls, Duval, Sherm, DC, Wallace, Melo, Gmac, Triche.

I was and still am extremely impressed with GMAC His ability to launch and make clutch shots is the number one thing in his gameIMHO.While there are a great many other Orange players that have made themselves FAVORITES. GMAC remains the kid who was the step stool to the NC in 2003 with Melo and all the others . josh Pace was the 6th man on the court with his energy. Because of him there were times it looked like the Orange had 6 players on the court. I was super lucky to have gotten court side seats in Manley when Dave Bing metal made their debut in Manley. I still can't remember who the fifth player in that starting five. Bing Penceal,Dean, and Richards.:noidea:SUball

 

[tbonezone]

in defense of jame thues. dude only started 18 games as a soph. yet played 1127 minutes in 36 games. that year
JT had 101 steals and 5 apg. jason hart had 101 steals in 33 games and mcw 111 in 40. he's tied for 2nd all-time!

 

[CusefanATL]

He never said he was good. He was identifying players that he thought weren't great starters here and had Wright, Thues, and Joseph listed but not McCroskey...

Was he saying that Cooney was the 4th or 5th worst starter for cuse since 2000?

 

[CuseTG2003]

Cooney being an above average defender is a fallacy. As someone else said, he gets a lot of steals thanks to the zone. Anyone besides KJ last year would. Other teams feast off the 3-pt shot on his side of the zone. Rewatch the Pitt game. It ain't pretty.

One important metric, maybe the most important, that hasn't been mentioned is the success of the teams in which a player plays a significant role. We simply haven't been that good since Trevor became a starter. Not saying there's causation, but the correlation's undeniable.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Was he saying that Cooney was the 4th or 5th worst starter for cuse since 2000?

It's on the previous page. It's the post I quoted. He was talking about guards Cooney is better than.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Cooney being an above average defender is a fallacy. As someone else said, he gets a lot of steals thanks to the zone. Anyone besides KJ last year would. Other teams feast off the 3-pt shot on his side of the zone. Rewatch the Pitt game. It ain't pretty.

One important metric, maybe the most important, that hasn't been mentioned is the success of the teams in which a player plays a significant role. We simply haven't been that good since Trevor became a starter. Not saying there's causation, but the correlation's undeniable.

Meh, he's not Triche, Rautins or MCW, but he's a lot better than the guard defense we put out there post Jason Hart until Andy started. You can check out the advanced metrics on this on CBBreference.com if it annoys you.

 

[CorduroyG]

Cooney being an above average defender is a fallacy. As someone else said, he gets a lot of steals thanks to the zone. Anyone besides KJ last year would. Other teams feast off the 3-pt shot on his side of the zone. Rewatch the Pitt game. It ain't pretty.

One important metric, maybe the most important, that hasn't been mentioned is the success of the teams in which a player plays a significant role. We simply haven't been that good since Trevor became a starter. Not saying there's causation, but the correlation's undeniable.

glad im not the only one who sees that. its almost like hes daring guys to shoot 3s sometimes. it sometimes reminds me of how i play defense in a pickup game against scrubs who i know cant shoot, you back off a little and dare them to shoot. "hey if you wanna brick a jumper be my guest". unfortunately cooney plays against high level d1 players who can drill open 3s like layups. i remember the miami game when it was close in the 2nd half cooney let his guy drill a couple 3's cuz he didnt get out on him and it killed us. drives me nuts.

 

[CusefanATL]

It's on the previous page. It's the post I quoted. He was talking about guards Cooney is better than.

I have glanced at every page on this thread 3x. and pages 7, 8 and 9 at least 5 times each. I can not find it. I have also search all of ottomets recent posts. I dont even know how to block anyone so hes not blocked - plus i can see his other posts on this thread.

But calling him the 4th worst starter this century is absurd (if that is his intent, which i cant verify)

 

[djcon57]

But calling him the 4th worst starter this century is absurd (if that is his intent, which i cant verify)

He was calling him the 4th worst starter at G this century.

Why is that absurd?

2000-2001: Deshawan/Griffin (Cooney better than Deshawn)
2001-2002: Duany/Thues (Cooney better than Thues)
2002-2003: GMac
2003-2004: Billy E/Pace
2004-2005: Louie Mc (Cooney better than Louie)
2005-2006: Devo
2006-2007: Wright/Rautins (Cooney better than Wright)
2007-2008: Jonny/Scoop
2008-2009:
2009-2010: Triche

2010 - now: we already did...

So he's better than Deshawn, Thues, Wright, Louie, and assuming he doesn't turn it around, Joseph.

So I'd argue 6th. Honestly, not that absurd.

 

[CusefanATL]

He was calling him the 4th worst starter at G this century.

Why is that absurd?

2000-2001: Deshawan/Griffin (Cooney better than Deshawn)
2001-2002: Duany/Thues (Cooney better than Thues)
2002-2003: GMac
2003-2004: Billy E/Pace
2004-2005: Louie Mc (Cooney better than Louie)
2005-2006: Devo
2006-2007: Wright/Rautins (Cooney better than Wright)
2007-2008: Jonny/Scoop
2008-2009:
2009-2010: Triche

2010 - now: we already did...

So he's better than Deshawn, Thues, Wright, Louie, and assuming he doesn't turn it around, Joseph.

So I'd argue 6th. Honestly, not that absurd.

at guard is a much different story. Although Duany/scoop/triche are no land slides over cooney

 

[OttoMets]

at guard is a much different story. Although Duany/scoop/triche are no land slides over cooney

I abandoned the post midway through but forgot to fully delete it and then accidentally posted the half-post as part of another reply this morning. (Then I went back and edited the partial ranking post)

 

[CuseFaninVT]

No I didn't say that. I said Pearl was my favorite of all time. And if I had listed more than just Pearl it would have included Smith, Kohls, Duval, Sherm, DC, Wallace, Melo, Gmac, Triche.

I stand corrected. You said that Cooney is your favorite on the team right now and Pearl is all time. Or at least you said ditto to someone who said that.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

On the positive side for TC, look at how he stacks up mpg-wise versus some of SU's greats - it's amazing. JB obviously values having TC out on the floor.

You could say, and it was written by SWC "It could be argued that minutes per game is based on the options available. It seems to me that was true the last couple of seasons but not this one". While I don't know if I agree with the sentiment that JB is making a mistake, I do agree, there are options, good ones - MG and Mal come to mind. Yet, JB chooses to play TC an incredible amount.

If you ranked the backup 2g's MG and Mal would be near the top. So for TC to have so many minutes at the expense of those stellar options, JB must really value having TC on the floor. That is a credit to TC.

 

[Flacusian]

Trevor Cooney. Dog gone it... I just like him.

 

[Cheriehoop]

On the positive side for TC, look at how he stacks up mpg-wise versus some of SU's greats - it's amazing. JB obviously values having TC out on the floor.

You could say, and it was written by SWC "It could be argued that minutes per game is based on the options available. It seems to me that was true the last couple of seasons but not this one". While I don't know if I agree with the sentiment that JB is making a mistake, I do agree, there are options, good ones - MG and Mal come to mind. Yet, JB chooses to play TC an incredible amount.

If you ranked the backup 2g's MG and Mal would be near the top. So for TC to have so many minutes at the expense of those stellar options, JB must really value having TC on the floor. That is a credit to TC.

I saw all 3 on the court - together. You must be alluding that you believe Cooney was either a much better option at point guard and/or small forward on defense than either Mike G or Mal too.

 

[CorduroyG]

Trevor Cooney. Dog gone it... I just like him.

Do you think cooney wakes up in the morning and looks at himself in the mirror and says "im good enough...im smart enough...and dog gone it people like me!" ?

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I saw all 3 on the court - together. You must be alluding that you believe Cooney was either a much better option at point guard and/or small forward on defense than either Mike G or Mal too.

I am saying the large mpg's for TC shows that in JB's mind TC is very valuable.

And I believe that JB has good options to play at the 2g - Mal or MG. For instance, JB could take out TC, move Mal to the 2 and put Lydon at the 3. A lot of people believe this will be a staple next year (which would be added incentive to do that). Or JB could put in FH and move MG over to the 2. JB chooses not to.

It is a credit to TC how valuable JB thinks he is.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I can't buy in to this idea that if only he had better players around him and didn't have to work so hard to get shots that he would be tons more efficient. The guy gets multiple open threes every game and he misses a pretty normal percentage of them.

He's capable of having dagger games. We often really benefit when he has an effort like that, but sometimes we waste those games. That hurts, because he will have the occasional stinker, and that's really hard to overcome because he won't come out even if he's playing really poorly.