The View From Here III

[Dcuse]

Sorry SWC but I'm with Bees on this one. Cooney has made a jump. He is shooting confidently even after a few misses,he showed decent ball-handling and ball protection from some fairly aggressive pressure, and he did make a bad pass but so what. Overall he's been making good decisions.
Disagree on Patterson also. I am impressed with him despite the low shooting percentage.He has a very good looking stroke that isn't missing ugly-it's just missing. As Leo said,he doesn't get down for a nano-second after a missed shot or turnover. He races back and makes a play on defense. Probably won't be a huge contributor this year but I feel very good about his future.

 

[SWC75]

The idea that we have to get our best guys as much time as we can is the old JB philosophy, which I am glad to see he has moved away from. He used to play the 5 starters as much as possible and sub only for foul protection. It led to players being gassed and defense was an opportunity to gain rest.

The new JB philosophy starts people who may not be the best. He uses other factors. Now the D is energized and the minutes are distributed much better. The best will be in at the end anyways. Developing DC2 is not just done solely by DC2 (we saw what happened this summer), he needs playing time and coaching instruction.

It's no longer an experiment it's been a successful change. After 4 years of 30 wins per, it is no time to revert back just because our board residents have hyped an unseen, late arriving, Roberson to Paul Harris heights.

I know nothing about what Roberson could give us. I'm talking about whether Rak or Jerami start at forward. Jermai is obviously the superior player and he needs to be out there.

 

[SWC75]

Sorry SWC but I'm with Bees on this one. Cooney has made a jump. He is shooting confidently even after a few misses,he showed decent ball-handling and ball protection from some fairly aggressive pressure, and he did make a bad pass but so what. Overall he's been making good decisions.
Disagree on Patterson also. I am impressed with him despite the low shooting percentage.He has a very good looking stroke that isn't missing ugly-it's just missing. As Leo said,he doesn't get down for a nano-second after a missed shot or turnover. He races back and makes a play on defense. Probably won't be a huge contributor this year but I feel very good about his future.

We can afford to have Patterson, (who is very good on defense and can rebound and pass the ball, too) only if we are getting adequate scoring from elsewhere. We will have two very good forwards but I'm not sure we can get by with nothing from the second guard. The "shooting" guard position is like first base in baseball. Being a good fielder is a useful thing but they don't put "good field, no hit" guys there. If you are playing the 2, you've got to score.

But as I said at the beginning, these are just observations and speculation based on a couple of games in Canada in August. It's not a time for conclusions.

 

[orangedave]

SWC - "I should have said that he's in his third year in the program. The point is, he ought to know that you don't send a bounce pass to a 6-8 guy being guarded by a 6-2 guy."

Our all-everything point guard, 11th overall pick last year, threw many an ill-advised and not too smart passes. Did you also question his intelligence well into his 2nd year in the program?

]

 

[OttoMets]

We can afford to have Patterson, (who is very good on defense and can rebound and pass the ball, too) only if we are getting adequate scoring from elsewhere. We will have two very good forwards but I'm not sure we can get by with nothing from the second guard. The "shooting" guard position is like first base in baseball. Being a good fielder is a useful thing but they don't put "good field, no hit" guys there. If you are playing the 2, you've got to score.

But as I said at the beginning, these are just observations and speculation based on a couple of games in Canada in August. It's not a time for conclusions.

SWC, you haven't watched enough Mets games these past two summers.

 

[SWC75]

SWC - "I should have said that he's in his third year in the program. The point is, he ought to know that you don't send a bounce pass to a 6-8 guy being guarded by a 6-2 guy."

Our all-everything point guard, 11th overall pick last year, threw many an ill-advised and not too smart passes. Did you also question his intelligence well into his 2nd year in the program?

]

Yes.

 

[SWC75]

SWC, you haven't watched enough Mets games these past two summers.

And Ike wound up in the minors.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I know nothing about what Roberson could give us. I'm talking about whether Rak or Jerami start at forward. Jermai is obviously the superior player and he needs to be out there.

I agree that JG is the superior player. Jerami will get the most minutes at the 4 and be out there at crunch time. But JG doesn't need to start. If JG is with us next year he can start then. It is a progression.

A lot of people are not understanding the tie-in between Rak starting at the 4 and the affect on the distribution of minutes. Having Rak get minutes at the 4 gives more minutes for the center trio to split. It allows Rak, DC2, and BMK to get more minutes than Roberson (a frosh). It allows JB to maintain an upperclassman rewarded philosophy.

Next year Roberson can move into a least the 3rd forward. It allows for the progression.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'm mystified by your post/ like ratio... It should be significantly better.

Paging Mr. tee...

Yeah, me too. Much obliged. Tee is probably responsible for a 1/4 of those, ha.

 

[SWC75]

I agree that JG is the superior player. Jerami will get the most minutes at the 4 and be out there at crunch time. But JG doesn't need to start. If JG is with us next year he can start then. It is a progression.

A lot of people are not understanding the tie-in between Rak starting at the 4 and the affect on the distribution of minutes. Having Rak get minutes at the 4 gives more minutes for the center trio to split. It allows Rak, DC2, and BMK to get more minutes than Roberson (a frosh). It allows JB to maintain an upperclassman rewarded philosophy.

Next year Roberson can move into a least the 3rd forward. It allows for the progression.

All-Americans start and that's what Jerami is going to be.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

All-Americans start and that's what Jerami is going to be.

They used to say that about lottery picks. SU/JB set new standards all the time.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

All-Americans start and that's what Jerami is going to be.

SWC - first sorry for putting you in with the Roberson hype machine, clearly you belong in the Grant PR Dept.

You're the historian, when is the last time SU has had two AA's on the same team? Because make no mistake this is CJ's team. CJ will lead the team in minutes, probably scoring, and will be JBs first consideration come crunch time. JB will do his best to promote CJ- above all other SU players. See earlier comment on upper classman oriented philosophy and rewarding the program player.

 

[Wallo]

I think your thinking is short-sighted. DC2 needs to develop because if he does the team will be unstoppable. Got to try and get that.

Sure, it seems like Roberson can give more on O than Rak but once again doesn't seem to be big picture smart. Keeping Rak happy via a token start is the best way to keep him for next year, when Rak is key. No reason to rush the frosh into action.

Say What !!! RAK is not NBA material and will not leave early! [unless he transfers to lower division school] with one year of eligibility.

 

[SWC75]

SWC - first sorry for putting you in with the Roberson hype machine, clearly you belong in the Grant PR Dept.

You're the historian, when is the last time SU has had two AA's on the same team? Because make no mistake this is CJ's team. CJ will lead the team in minutes, probably scoring, and will be JBs first consideration come crunch time. JB will do his best to promote CJ- above all other SU players. See earlier comment on upper classman oriented philosophy and rewarding the program player.

Melo and Hak were pretty good. So were DC1 and Billy. Even J-Dub and Burgan. Our best teams have had two great forwards. And they both started.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Say What !!! RAK is not NBA material and will not leave early! [unless he transfers to lower division school] with one year of eligibility.

I certainly don't view Rak as NBA material. Rak has been rumored to be frustrated for years. His name has been routinely brought up as a transfer candidate or to try the Euro circuit. It would really hurt if a demotion this year led to his not being here next year.

I believe Rak has a lot more value to next years team than this years (Rak and BMK are pretty similar). '14-'15 projects to be absolutely nasty, talented and deep at every position except center. Losing BMK and Rak would force a center tandom of DC2 and Chino - what a dropoff.

The cost to keeping Rak involved, focused, and happy, looks minimal to me. Grant can deal with not starting. A couple less minutes for Roberson as a late arriving frosh really doesn't bother me. Giving an upperclassman the benefit of time is right in JBs wheelhouse, no need to deviate from it now. Certainly not when you envision what is at risk for '14-'15.

 

[SWC75]

I certainly don't view Rak as NBA material. Rak has been rumored to be frustrated for years. His name has been routinely brought up as a transfer candidate or to try the Euro circuit. It would really hurt if a demotion this year led to his not being here next year.

I believe Rak has a lot more value to next years team than this years (Rak and BMK are pretty similar). '14-'15 projects to be absolutely nasty, talented and deep at every position except center. Losing BMK and Rak would force a center tandom of DC2 and Chino - what a dropoff.

The cost to keeping Rak involved, focused, and happy, looks minimal to me. Grant can deal with not starting. A couple less minutes for Roberson as a late arriving frosh really doesn't bother me. Giving an upperclassman the benefit of time is right in JBs wheelhouse, no need to deviate from it now. Certainly not when you envision what is at risk for '14-'15.

Keeping Rak involved, focused and happy seems minimal to me. We have two, maybe three other centers. If Rak doesn't want to play, we don't need him.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

I think what we've seen so far is what we're likely to continue to see from Trevor. Streaky shooting and ball hawking on defense. What we need is for Johnson and/or Gbinije to become reliable threats from 3. We need more shooters. Johnson looked the part last game. Silent G hasn't really found his offense yet. We need him to be more assertive.

Something tells me Gbinije has been focused primarily on trying to learn a new position (PG) and playing mistake-free and once he gets comfortable he will start looking for his offence more. Being very familiar with MG's game, albeit high school and AAU, I know he is definitely more capable than he is currently showing. I guess we will just wait and see how it plays out.

 

[SU_Fan_in_VA]

I agree. He has shown a good "floor game". But we need him to be able to score, especially with all the bigs who can't.

I would also agree considering that the defensive intensity picked up when MG came in for TC after we gave up a few back to back 3's on top of the zone, not puting the blame on TC, he was also critical to helping us win the game.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Keeping Rak involved, focused and happy seems minimal to me. We have two, maybe three other centers. If Rak doesn't want to play, we don't need him.

We may not need him this year, but we need him next year. Grant is a luxury next year.

 

[HOFCeluck]

We may not need him this year, but we need him next year. Grant is a luxury next year.

Grant will be the best player on 14-15 if he comes back.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Grant will be the best player on 14-15 if he comes back.

Yes, Grant would be awesome. But we will also have McCollough, Roberson, MG, and BJ to man the forward spot if JG were to leave.

At center, if Rak leaves the '14-'15 center position would be DC2 and Chino. That is not good. Actually, defensively that is pathetic. And they would probably foul out at times leaving some converted forward forced into action.

The point is, Rak is extremely valuable in '14-'15.

 

[HOFCeluck]

Yes, Grant would be awesome. But we will also have McCollough, Roberson, MG, and BJ to man the forward spot if JG were to leave.

At center, if Rak leaves the '14-'15 center position would be DC2 and Chino. That is not good. Actually, defensively that is pathetic. And they would probably foul out at times leaving some converted forward forced into action.



The point is, Rak is extremely valuable in '14-'15.

Fair enough...but "luxury" isn't the word I'd use at this point for a guy who will be a ACCPOY candidate if he returns.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Fair enough...but "luxury" isn't the word I'd use at this point for a guy who will be a ACCPOY candidate if he returns.

I hear you, I probably should have worded that better. But there is a good case to be made that Rak's value to the '14-'15 squad could be higher than Grant's even though Grant is clearly the superior talent, based on returning players and depth.

Starting Rak looks like it increases the odds of Rak, and Grant returning for '14-'15 versus risking some potential slow starts in '13-'14. A small price to pay in my book.