The zone is like the knuckleball in baseball

[SUMJF]

If it’s on then it becomes hard to score on and can confuse the opposition.
If it’s not on then it becomes easy to solve and do damage against.

Our coaching staff should understand that if the opponent knows how to hit/attack the zone then you need to have a backup.

We need to develop a fastball/man to man defense just in case the opponent is feasting on us.

It’s either bad coaching or stubbornness that we don’t change anything but throw a press.

Coach Boeheim doesn’t change and that is not acceptable due to the results.
Thus fans can either speak up their frustrations or say nothing. I saw 4 years of exciting basketball I want the same for current students so they care after their time on the Hill.

If our offense is going to struggle the defense needs to carry the team. Our defense doesn’t carry the team. It allows inferior competition to get open looks and make open shots.

 

[Orangepace]

You’re mistaking a lack of talent to run a scheme vs a scheme that’s antiquated.

 

[SUMJF]

You’re mistaking a lack of talent to run a scheme vs a scheme that’s antiquated.

We have talent. It’s not national championship talent but we have talent.
Mintz/Girard/Maliq/Williams/Edwards are a decent and we have depth.

Our problem is the offense isn’t consistent thus we need defense to carry the team.
Coach said he was going to mix in man to man this season. He went one game and has scrapped it since. Why? We can mix in some man to man every game.
The idea we can’t practice multiple defenses in practice is just gaslighting in its finest. Coach wants to be a one trick pony that doesn’t help when our defense isn’t great. We played a bunch of cupcakes and couldn’t mix in a little man to man why?

 

[bozophobe]

Not a big deal, really, but the problem with modestly related subjects used as metaphors is that they can be scoured for opposite conclusions. Boeheim or others could say that Phil Niekro's longevity and fair amount of success was partly due to his bread and butter technique. Speaking of which, the annual won-loss records for both seem curiously similar. Could go 19-13, or 16-17.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I compare the zone to the option / wishbone offense in college football. It was all the rage in the 70’s and 80’s until defenses figured out how to stop it. Then the offenses evolved to RPO. It’s a continual evolution.

JB has been running the same defense for decades all while basketball offenses have evolved to take advantage of the 3 point shot and more guys than ever can shoot from deep. He keeps recruiting the same type of players to fit his “system”, a system that doesn’t work anymore because the game has evolved.

The zone worked for a moment in time. JB built his success upon it. That moment in time has passed. JB is incapable of adapting and evolving. Nothing will change until SU basketball starts a new chapter.

 

[Cuse181]

We have talent. It’s not national championship talent but we have talent.
Mintz/Girard/Maliq/Williams/Edwards are a decent and we have depth.

Our problem is the offense isn’t consistent thus we need defense to carry the team.
Coach said he was going to mix in man to man this season. He went one game and has scrapped it since. Why? We can mix in some man to man every game.
The idea we can’t practice multiple defenses in practice is just gaslighting in its finest. Coach wants to be a one trick pony that doesn’t help when our defense isn’t great. We played a bunch of cupcakes and couldn’t mix in a little man to man why?

Go back and watch the first 8 minutes of the Colgate game and tell me these guys would be any better in man to man lol

 

[djcon57]

You’re mistaking a lack of talent to run a scheme vs a scheme that’s antiquated.

Do any other teams around the country run exclusively 2-3 zone?

 

[djcon57]

I compare the zone to the option / wishbone offense in college football. It was all the rage in the 70’s and 80’s until defenses figured out how to stop it. Then the offenses evolved to RPO. It’s a continual evolution.

JB has been running the same defense for decades all while basketball offenses have evolved to take advantage of the 3 point shot and more guys than ever can shoot from deep. He keeps recruiting the same type of players to fit his “system”, a system that doesn’t work anymore because the game has evolved.

The zone worked for a moment in time. JB built his success upon it. That moment in time has passed. JB is incapable of adapting and evolving. Nothing will change until SU basketball starts a new chapter.

It’s a nice defense to throw at certain teams/lineups. Using it 100 percent of the time in 2023, well, we see the results

 

[Cuse181]

Do any other teams around the country run exclusively 2-3 zone?

Washington lol

 

[Zelda Zonk]

If it’s on then it becomes hard to score on and can confuse the opposition.
If it’s not on then it becomes easy to solve and do damage against.

Our coaching staff should understand that if the opponent knows how to hit/attack the zone then you need to have a backup.

We need to develop a fastball/man to man defense just in case the opponent is feasting on us.

It’s either bad coaching or stubbornness that we don’t change anything but throw a press.

Coach Boeheim doesn’t change and that is not acceptable due to the results.
Thus fans can either speak up their frustrations or say nothing. I saw 4 years of exciting basketball I want the same for current students so they care after their time on the Hill.

If our offense is going to struggle the defense needs to carry the team. Our defense doesn’t carry the team. It allows inferior competition to get open looks and make open shots.

Worse than that. It means you can only sign players at all the other positions who want to commit to the knuckleball. In baseball, that’s only one position that’s compromised. In basketball, it’s the entire roster.

Can you imagine being a top 10 player in high school and thinking, yeah, I want to go play zone? Before we were all zone all the time, we signed Pearl. DC, Billy Owens, and Winfred Walton. In a pretty short period of time. After we went all zone, our ceiling got a little lower.

 

[Day2]

I compare the zone to the option / wishbone offense in college football. It was all the rage in the 70’s and 80’s until defenses figured out how to stop it. Then the offenses evolved to RPO. It’s a continual evolution.

JB has been running the same defense for decades all while basketball offenses have evolved to take advantage of the 3 point shot and more guys than ever can shoot from deep. He keeps recruiting the same type of players to fit his “system”, a system that doesn’t work anymore because the game has evolved.

The zone worked for a moment in time. JB built his success upon it. That moment in time has passed. JB is incapable of adapting and evolving. Nothing will change until SU basketball starts a new chapter.

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[tino]

Go back and watch the first 8 minutes of the Colgate game and tell me these guys would be any better in man to man lol

Yea they would

 

[Cuse181]

Yea they would

So the answer is you didn’t watch them get shredded by glorified Rec players?

 

[UpstateSM]

The zone against a good coach is like giving soft toss to juiced up Barry Bonds

 

[Eric15]

I think the zone is like Buddy Ryan’s 46 defense. It used to be effective but the game has evolved and offenses have become too dynamic for it.

 

[jdubs30]

Most teams have 4 guys who can shoot/pass/handle. It makes the zone largely useless.

 

[Madbiker]

I don't know why every team doesn't destroy the 2-3 zone. Throw the ball inside, the zone collapses. Throw it back out to multiple 3 point shooters behind the arc. Widen open uncontested shots. Bingo. All game long. Too many teams today have multiple good 3 point shooters.

 

[FrancoPizza]

You’re mistaking a lack of talent to run a scheme vs a scheme that’s antiquated.

It’s both

 

[phil77]

I think the zone sucks

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

The zone is a dated defense that doesn't work consistently in modern basketball. Kids are shooting 30 foot 3's in junior high now. That is the game now. And we haven't adjusted. I'm so tired of watching us grit it out vs lesser teams and get mauled by good ones because they are making the wide open 3's we are giving them. It's exhausting.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

I think the zone sucks

A well executed offense will beat the zone 100% of the time. Once you understand the rotations , you know two quick passes will lead to a wide open shot. Just depends on how early in the shot clock you want the look to occur in

 

[STEVEHOLT]

The zone is a dated defense that doesn't work consistently in modern basketball. Kids are shooting 30 foot 3's in junior high now. That is the game now. And we haven't adjusted. I'm so tired of watching us grit it out vs lesser teams and get mauled by good ones because they are making the wide open 3's we are giving them. It's exhausting.

The kids sort of give up on D once they realize their opponent has figured it out. It’s quite obvious

 

[FrancoPizza]

Every time we post about the zone, JB digs in further. don’t be even mention it anymore. Don’t say its name. Don’t give it notoriety.

 

[CuseCPT]

I think a decent analogy for would be BJJ in mixed martial arts. In the wild west early days of the UFC, nobody really had an answer for it. But the game evolved and everyone started training in it. I would argue the best fighters now aren't generally kickboxers/boxers (aka super strikers) or actual BJJ champions, it's the guys who are rounded and strong in both.

Although tonight, we looked like we are in the UFC trying win with Rex Kwon Do.

 

[swish7]

If it’s on then it becomes hard to score on and can confuse the opposition.
If it’s not on then it becomes easy to solve and do damage against.

Our coaching staff should understand that if the opponent knows how to hit/attack the zone then you need to have a backup.

Its the unwillingness to switch in-game that is bugging me tonight.

As that lead grew in the 1st, I kept waiting for him to setup the press on the inbounds. He has done it before in the 1st and tonight he didn't. We desperately needed a change of pace.

Was he reserving this 'trick up his sleeve' for the 2nd half?

You need to challenge shooters. When the zone cannot do that, we should switch to something else, right away.

Seems like you could even modernize a zone to challenge teams that have figured out its weaknesses. Do something different at that 8' point, besides just conceding an uncontested move there.