There are two reasons for HCSS to return

[CNY in Miami]

1 He is a man of character, I've been in business for over 40 years now, people of high character normally succeed.
2 No question there is a significant upgrade in talent, he deserves the chance to help the talent mold into a successful team.
One more... I don't want to start the merry go round all over again, I don't think there is anybody better on the horizon.

 

[PAcuse]

You make great points. The #fireHCSS army will arrive to to let you know you are wrong AND if you don't like what they say you can not read there 2397892834758945 posts and ignore them. :crazy:

 

[FAL]

I guess we'll see in a couple of weeks if the AD agrees with you.

 

[DocFlanders]

I tend to agree...but if NC State throttles us, and questionable coaching decisions are made, the pendulum will swing right back around. How do we hang with the big dogs and lose to the dregs of the ACC (of which we are a proud member at the moment)?

 

[tep624]

It only makes sense to retain him if we're going to spend some serious cash on an OC that is a high powered offensive guru and a DC in the mood of Eddie O. Other than that, I just don't see it.

 

[chakka3421]

1 He is a man of character, I've been in business for over 40 years now, people of high character normally succeed.
2 No question there is a significant upgrade in talent, he deserves the chance to help the talent mold into a successful team.
One more... I don't want to start the merry go round all over again, I don't think there is anybody better on the horizon.

I'll weigh in here. No question about Shafer's character from me.

I'm also vaguely hearing they may keep Shafer around through the Dome renovation as we may end up next year??? with 12 away games and not put that on a new HC making it even more difficult for Shafer to succeed. I would not want to be in Shafer's shoes if that is the case but I would probably do anything if I were paid a cool million bucks .

Primary would be to build the SUAD's war chest as they are doing so now by going cheap with Shafer & his band. If they give Shafer an extension for a year or more through the Dome Reno, with only a small comp increase, that would verify this longer term University position of strengthening the financials first just as Sevyrud is doing with SU at large.

 

[JeremyCuse]

You make great points. The #fireHCSS army will arrive to to let you know you are wrong AND if you don't like what they say you can not read there 2397892834758945 posts and ignore them. :crazy:

Not sure there is an army but there are posters who rightfully so will point to what looks like a 3-9 season followed by at best a 4-8 season with continued coaching mistakes. Its OK to want Shafer to return many people share your and the OP's opinion that he should be brought back. But people who disagree and are looking for a change are also entitled to their opinion. While you think there is a fire Shafer army there is also clearly a #keepshafernomatterwhat group of posters who are reaching for any reason to try and bring him back. As nice of a person as he is this isnt Div 3 wins matter and he simply doesn't have them.

 

[tep624]

I'll weigh in here. No question about Shafer's character from me.

I'm also vaguely hearing they may keep Shafer around through the Dome renovation as we may end up next year??? with 12 away games and not put that on a new HC making it even more difficult for Shafer to succeed. I would not want to be in Shafer's shoes if that is the case but I would probably do anything if I were paid a cool million bucks .

Primary would be to build the SUAD's war chest as they are doing so now by going cheap with Shafer & his band. If they give Shafer an extension for a year or more through the Dome Reno, with only a small comp increase, that would verify this longer term University position of strengthening the financials first just as Sevyrud is doing with SU at large.

So what you're saying is prepare for next year to potentially be worse than this year. And if the current staff somehow improves despite the obvious difficulty with playing an entire schedule away from the dome, the we would potentially be talking extension.

 

[CuseLegacy]

I'll weigh in here. No question about Shafer's character from me.

I'm also vaguely hearing they may keep Shafer around through the Dome renovation as we may end up next year??? with 12 away games and not put that on a new HC making it even more difficult for Shafer to succeed. I would not want to be in Shafer's shoes if that is the case but I would probably do anything if I were paid a cool million bucks .

Primary would be to build the SUAD's war chest as they are doing so now by going cheap with Shafer & his band. If they give Shafer an extension for a year or more through the Dome Reno, with only a small comp increase, that would verify this longer term University position of strengthening the financials first just as Sevyrud is doing with SU at large.

That is the same rationale I have heard but I know you are better connected than I. And that sure is one aggravated looking kitty.

 

[orangecuse]

I really think the pudding may be in these final two games. As some players have eluded, there are no moral victories in playing admirably in losses to LSU & Clemson. At the end of the day, the team has lost 7 straight, with a couple of those losses looking like a team that doesn't quite know precisely what it's doing...and something like 2-16 in its last Power 5 games.

 

[tep624]

That is the same rationale I have heard but I know you are better connected than I. And that sure is one aggravated looking kitty.

I do understand this rationale. I think the end result will end up being the same if we moved now or later, but I can get behind this strategy if it is a means to an end and a better beginning.

 

[RoatanCuse]

I'll weigh in here. No question about Shafer's character from me.

I'm also vaguely hearing they may keep Shafer around through the Dome renovation as we may end up next year??? with 12 away games and not put that on a new HC making it even more difficult for Shafer to succeed. I would not want to be in Shafer's shoes if that is the case but I would probably do anything if I were paid a cool million bucks .

Primary would be to build the SUAD's war chest as they are doing so now by going cheap with Shafer & his band. If they give Shafer an extension for a year or more through the Dome Reno, with only a small comp increase, that would verify this longer term University position of strengthening the financials first just as Sevyrud is doing with SU at large.

Good thoughts. Makes sense to me.

 

[Crusty]

I certainly hope we are not making a football coaching decision based on a construction schedule.

 

[supp]

I'll weigh in here. No question about Shafer's character from me.

I'm also vaguely hearing they may keep Shafer around through the Dome renovation as we may end up next year??? with 12 away games and not put that on a new HC making it even more difficult for Shafer to succeed. I would not want to be in Shafer's shoes if that is the case but I would probably do anything if I were paid a cool million bucks .

Primary would be to build the SUAD's war chest as they are doing so now by going cheap with Shafer & his band. If they give Shafer an extension for a year or more through the Dome Reno, with only a small comp increase, that would verify this longer term University position of strengthening the financials first just as Sevyrud is doing with SU at large.

That seems to me like an awful reason to keep a coach. You don't want to put the guy you want to lead the program through a 12-game road schedule so you hold on to the lame duck w/ the idea that he's going to be ground up by that same schedule, making your decision a no-brainer? This is what people in political science would call a conspiracy! The scenario laid out sounds ridiculous and is ridiculous. Further, what if the guy you're looking to lead the program is not there in a year's time? What if another poor season with Shafer really damages our recruiting and makes the job less attractive to the next guy?

If Coyle is really looking to make a change, then he should make one. There's little financial benefit to be had from keeping the current guy another year (if you're going to extend him another year) and there's no competitive benefit to be had from the keeping the current guy if you think he's not the man for the job. If he keeps Shafer, I'm going to assume that Coyle thinks he deserves another year. Any other reason is too horrible to imagine since it means we have bigger problems than just a losing football program.

 

[orange79]

That seems to me like an awful reason to keep a coach. You don't want to put the guy you want to lead the program through a 12-game road schedule so you hold on to the lame duck w/ the idea that he's going to be ground up by that same schedule, making your decision a no-brainer? This is what people in political science would call a conspiracy! The scenario laid out sounds ridiculous and is ridiculous. Further, what if the guy you're looking to lead the program is not there in a year's time? What if another poor season with Shafer really damages our recruiting and makes the job less attractive to the next guy?

If Coyle is really looking to make a change, then he should make one. There's little financial benefit to be had from keeping the current guy another year (if you're going to extend him another year) and there's no competitive benefit to be had from the keeping the current guy if you think he's not the man for the job. If he keeps Shafer, I'm going to assume that Coyle thinks he deserves another year. Any other reason is too horrible to imagine since it means we have bigger problems than just a losing football program.

Problem is, the prospect of playing your first entire year on the road could scare away some coaches we would normally be able to attract. All of them? I doubt it. But it may make an already small pool of candidates even smaller. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's definitely something that needs to be considered.

 

[supp]

Problem is, the prospect of playing your first entire year on the road could scare away some coaches we would normally be able to attract. All of them? I doubt it. But it may make an already small pool of candidates even smaller. Not saying it's right or wrong, but it's definitely something that needs to be considered.

It's swings and roundabouts, as the British would say. How attractive is the job if a lame duck Shafer goes 0-12? Some candidates might also view an all-road schedule as a year where they can teach their system and tinker with it, knowing they're getting a "mulligan" b/c of the circumstances.

I hate these cliches but, in the end, pressure is a part of this profession. If a coach thinks that the SU job is a step up from what he has now, I can't imagine him turning it down because he's going to be playing on the road for his first season.

 

[RandygoCuse]

1 He is a man of character, I've been in business for over 40 years now, people of high character normally succeed.
2 No question there is a significant upgrade in talent, he deserves the chance to help the talent mold into a successful team.
One more... I don't want to start the merry go round all over again, I don't think there is anybody better on the horizon.

I think your last statement is the first question (and some would argue only) question we should ask. If the next guy isn't going to be any better, there's really no point In firing SS. Change for the sake of change does us no good.

 

[GHLF]

1 He is a man of character, I've been in business for over 40 years now, people of high character normally succeed.
2 No question there is a significant upgrade in talent, he deserves the chance to help the talent mold into a successful team.
One more... I don't want to start the merry go round all over again, I don't think there is anybody better on the horizon.

Could not agree more.

I'll weigh in here. No question about Shafer's character from me.

I'm also vaguely hearing they may keep Shafer around through the Dome renovation as we may end up next year??? with 12 away games and not put that on a new HC making it even more difficult for Shafer to succeed. I would not want to be in Shafer's shoes if that is the case but I would probably do anything if I were paid a cool million bucks .

Primary would be to build the SUAD's war chest as they are doing so now by going cheap with Shafer & his band. If they give Shafer an extension for a year or more through the Dome Reno, with only a small comp increase, that would verify this longer term University position of strengthening the financials first just as Sevyrud is doing with SU at large.

I agree, I do not know you but you do seem to be connected to the University. Or at least have some noted insight. Please note I think this is rational thought. If somehow we could pull out these next two games it would be tremendously beneficial for Coach Shafer and staff. Hopefully which I also believe is very reasonable a vote of confidence would be given publicly by the athletic director Mark Coyle. A one year extension given which certainly would help continue this upward recruiting trend and publicly voice confidence that the program is headed in the right direction. Which I do believe it is. I mean come on do we at least care about academics, building character as well as professional growth for the coach himself. Please remember the first couple years of Marrone's time here. Shafer and his defense were carrying this team. Can't the guy some slack people. Please note I am not referencing the person who wrote this post.

 

[chakka3421]

That seems to me like an awful reason to keep a coach. You don't want to put the guy you want to lead the program through a 12-game road schedule so you hold on to the lame duck w/ the idea that he's going to be ground up by that same schedule, making your decision a no-brainer? This is what people in political science would call a conspiracy! The scenario laid out sounds ridiculous and is ridiculous. Further, what if the guy you're looking to lead the program is not there in a year's time? What if another poor season with Shafer really damages our recruiting and makes the job less attractive to the next guy?

If Coyle is really looking to make a change, then he should make one. There's little financial benefit to be had from keeping the current guy another year (if you're going to extend him another year) and there's no competitive benefit to be had from the keeping the current guy if you think he's not the man for the job. If he keeps Shafer, I'm going to assume that Coyle thinks he deserves another year. Any other reason is too horrible to imagine since it means we have bigger problems than just a losing football program.

Actually I agree with you...terrible reason to keep a HC or not...I was just relaying what I heard yesterday. There seems to be 2 contradictory messages - messages coming from SUAD versus those out of SU regarding strategic direction. Tirico is an interesting addition to the BOT - too bad we couldn't in addition get Costas as a voting BOT. Anyway, you all realize if they hire a new football HC he should be the highest paid university official and JB and his supporters politically may be having a problem with that. Better to wait until JB retires and keep Shafer for now.

 

[CUSU]

Actually I agree with you...terrible reason to keep a HC or not...I was just relaying what I heard yesterday. There seems to be 2 contradictory messages - messages coming from SUAD versus those out of SU regarding strategic direction. Tirico is an interesting addition to the BOT - too bad we couldn't in addition get Costas as a voting BOT. Anyway, you all realize if they hire a new football HC he should be the highest paid university official and JB and his supporters politically may be having a problem with that. Better to wait until JB retires and keep Shafer for now.

If politically that is a reason, thats lame as hell.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I certainly hope we are not making a football coaching decision based on a construction schedule.

Well, they are making construction decisions based on FB.

 

[Shenexon]

I'm as interested a party as most and find the coaching debates fascinating in a masochistic way. People I know and respect stand on both sides of the Shafer issue. Personally, I'm just glad we have good people in place to analyze the program and make decisions. I'd like to hope that we support their decision on Shafer no matter what they decide. The university has many goals and the interplay between segments of SU isn't always based upon logic and the perspective of fans. SU has a complex plan to develop and execute. Let's hope Syverud & Coyle choose wisely, and create an organization capable of making their plans work.

I'm fond of the traditional curse and a victim of it's "generosity":

"May you live in interesting times..."​

 

[OrangeTarheel]

I imagine it is better to include construction decisions into decision making than to not include them in that decision. It is going to be difficult on whomever is here ... I almost think it is better for a new coach to experience that than have a lame duck one year coach struggle against those odds.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

The only way I can see the keep Shafer because we're on the road thing working is if Shafer gets his final year, and then we bring in Frost or Riley or somebody like that as HC in waiting. That way they can install their offense, get the road warrior season out of the way, and maintain if not improve recruiting and have lots of time to transition to and build out the next staff.

Of course, this would be asking a TON of Shafer.