this a great read,but it is a long one | Syracusefan.com

this a great read,but it is a long one

orangenirvana

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Not a great read. I'm sick and tired of hearing about this woe-is-the-student-athlete crap. What would 95% of these football players be doing if there was no college football? No one is putting a gun to these kids heads and making them play. If they don't like it, then they can be regular students or stay on the streets and get into trouble.
 

Whitey23

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well if they want to make a living playing football i guess someone is holding a gun to their heads. The NFL and NCAA have essential forced potential professional football players to play 3 years for free before they are allowed to make a salary. Unless a kid goes to college he has zero chance of getting paid to play football. They have to play by their rules.
 

SWC75

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Cadillac

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Not a great read. I'm sick and tired of hearing about this woe-is-the-student-athlete crap. What would 95% of these football players be doing if there was no college football? No one is putting a gun to these kids heads and making them play. If they don't like it, then they can be regular students or stay on the streets and get into trouble.

You don't have to agree with the author to appreciate that he hit a home run.

Tell me this isn't gold:
The Atlantic said:
“Why,” asked Bryce Jordan, the president emeritus of Penn State, “should a university be an advertising medium for your industry?”

Vaccaro did not blink. “They shouldn’t, sir,” he replied. “You sold your souls, and you’re going to continue selling them. You can be very moral and righteous in asking me that question, sir,” Vaccaro added with irrepressible good cheer, “but there’s not one of you in this room that’s going to turn down any of our money. You’re going to take it. I can only offer it.”

William Friday, a former president of North Carolina’s university system, still winces at the memory. “Boy, the silence that fell in that room,” he recalled recently. “I never will forget it.”
 

VaSaltine

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I can vouch from experience that the financial life of the minor league baseball players is absolutely no better than that of a collegiage scholarship football player. As a young professional trying to prove your worth in baseball, you are earning simply enough so that you do not starve to death. And at the same time you are doing nothing to further your education and are far from any sorority houses and frat parties. The life of being a professional starts with hard work and paying your dues early in your career with the goal of earning a potential high income later in your career. And when I say professional in this sense, I am not limiting my definition to athletics. It will be very difficult to convince me that scholarship athletes are not being compensated more than adequately.

I know plenty of low level cubicle living employees who work hard their entire careers also earning billions of dollars for their corporations. Sorry, I'm not buying the woe is me slant, and the arguements made in these type of stories really make me upset. But, thanks for sharing!
 

orangenirvana

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well if they want to make a living playing football i guess someone is holding a gun to their heads. The NFL and NCAA have essential forced potential professional football players to play 3 years for free before they are allowed to make a salary. Unless a kid goes to college he has zero chance of getting paid to play football. They have to play by their rules.

Then they should take it up with the NFL.
 

orangenirvana

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College is supposed to be an educaitonal experince for the students. ahtletes who watch the college adminsitrators do everything possible to make more money while creating rules to prevent the atheltes from getting any of it are getting very well educated. What values do we expect them to learn from this?

Colleges don't have to ignore financial opportunities in a capitalist system in order to be an educational experience for the students. They can do both, and they do. In fact, the educational opportunities improve with the money coming in from those sports.

You're implying that the college adminstrators are pocketing all of the money and bathing in it while going "Mwuhahahaha! Stupid college athletes!" How much more are these college administrators making for themselves?
 

texascpa

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well if they want to make a living playing football i guess someone is holding a gun to their heads. The NFL and NCAA have essential forced potential professional football players to play 3 years for free before they are allowed to make a salary. Unless a kid goes to college he has zero chance of getting paid to play football. They have to play by their rules.

there are/have been players in the nfl that never played a snap of college ball.
 

SmilinBob

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If players ever did get paid I'd have to guess they would also be a lot more cuts as well. If I'm paying a kid to play and he isn't playing well, he's gone. I know that scholarships are year to year but most are honored, if you're paying players I'd have to make sure I'm getting my moneys worth. If I'm a marginal player or worse I'd watch out for what I'd be wishing for on this one. The star players are going to "get theirs" but the rest have to make they have an education and right now they are getting a free ride.
 

Orangepace

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there are/have been players in the nfl that never played a snap of college ball.
There are exceptions to every rule, we all know that, but that still doesn't break the argument.
 

SWC75

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I can vouch from experience that the financial life of the minor league baseball players is absolutely no better than that of a collegiage scholarship football player. As a young professional trying to prove your worth in baseball, you are earning simply enough so that you do not starve to death. And at the same time you are doing nothing to further your education and are far from any sorority houses and frat parties. The life of being a professional starts with hard work and paying your dues early in your career with the goal of earning a potential high income later in your career. And when I say professional in this sense, I am not limiting my definition to athletics. It will be very difficult to convince me that scholarship athletes are not being compensated more than adequately.

I know plenty of low level cubicle living employees who work hard their entire careers also earning billions of dollars for their corporations. Sorry, I'm not buying the woe is me slant, and the arguements made in these type of stories really make me upset. But, thanks for sharing!

College athletes are not "low level cubicle living employees", (as I was). They are sports stars whom thousands of people buy tickets, (and pay exorbitant prices for parking and concessions), to see play. Not a valid comparison.
 

SWC75

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Colleges don't have to ignore financial opportunities in a capitalist system in order to be an educational experience for the students. They can do both, and they do. In fact, the educational opportunities improve with the money coming in from those sports.

You're implying that the college adminstrators are pocketing all of the money and bathing in it while going "Mwuhahahaha! Stupid college athletes!" How much more are these college administrators making for themselves?

No I'm implying the schools are pocketing all the money while denying it to the players who are taking the hits. The players are denied the chance to pursue "financial opportunities in a capitalist system" because the NFL and NBA are using the colleges as their farm system.
 

texascpa

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No I'm implying the schools are pocketing all the money while denying it to the players who are taking the hits. The players are denied the chance to pursue "financial opportunities in a capitalist system" because the NFL and NBA are using the colleges as their farm system.

And lots of college kids work hours upon hours in college labs to create, invent or discover new things. They don't get paid a cent either.
 

All4SU

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Then they should take it up with the NFL.

Exactly right. Or get people to invest money in a minor league, so that these kids can go play in it, hoping against hope to make it as a professional some day.

Or get a personal trainer and try to make a team on your own.

You don't see the NFL Players' Union holding out for a minor league.

The baseball analogy above is a good one. There are minor leagues in baseball, AND there are college teams competing at a high level. Choose your path. I am 100% against paying college athletes. I am 100% in favor of minor professional leagues. So stop criticizing the colleges, and put your energies into figuring out how football and basketball can develop minor leagues. If that cuts into the colleges' profits, so be it. Frankly, that would be a good thing.

The criticism here is misdirected.
 

All4SU

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College athletes are not "low level cubicle living employees", (as I was). They are sports stars whom thousands of people buy tickets, (and pay exorbitant prices for parking and concessions), to see play. Not a valid comparison.

They are sports "stars" because at the level they play, the colleges make them stars. The overwhelming majority will never be good enough to earn a living playing their sport.

If these players are not good enough to get into the NFL straight out of high school, then they are indeed receiving more than just an education in college. They are receiving coaching, exposure, training, -- the things that may help them actually make it in the NFL.
 

SWC75

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And lots of college kids work hours upon hours in college labs to create, invent or discover new things. They don't get paid a cent either.

Maybe they should
 

ottodaorange

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I posted this article late Wednesday night/Thurs. morning after watching the Yankees lose in 12 innings out West... I stumbled on this while reading an article from Donna Ditota with a link to this piece in hopes of stimulating the discussion that has surfaced with this post. It received 115 views and 0 replies... probably due to the lateness of the hour and the length of the article. I am personally torn on this issue; mostly for entirely selfish reasons. The author has the same feelings. The notion of amateurism and the "scholar athlete" is pure fiction in this day and age, as the article demonstrates. The romaniticsm that we all attach to this feeds our passion for our alma mater or school of choice that we choose to support. I played college football half a century ago and believe the game today has little remblance to the game I once played... as well as the premises we all attach to it. It became a business a long time ago, and with the dawn of civil rights, sports at all levels have been changed forever. In my opinion the central point of this article, written by a noted human rights advocate, is the constitutional rights we should all be entitled to versus the ideals of amateurism and the usurpation of these rights for power and greed by Byers and the NCAA. I freely admit that I am drawn to the false notion and ideals of amateurism but that was something that was lost decades ago... if it ever existed at all. Ideals and ideas are powerful and based in passion. As the author points out, the facts are that cases presently working their way through the courts will inevitably change the face of college sports and just compensation will eventually be awarded. The only question is what will the just compensation be?
 

anglerman

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Maybe they should
College athletes are students period! They are paid with free room, board and a very expensive education! What minior league farm system would give them a college degree as well? I don't understand what the problem is here. 99% of these kids are not going to play in the NFL so whats wrong with having a collge degree to fall back on? Any one who sees this as problem is the problem. Who amongst us that wasn't a scholarship athlete wouldn't have loved to be in their position?
 

All4SU

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As the author points out, the facts are that cases presently working their way through the courts will inevitably change the face of college sports and just compensation will eventually be awarded. The only question is what will the just compensation be?

The idea that college football and basketball athletes don't receive their cut of the pie, and the idea that there are no other options for them to compete, are two separate issues. Rather than attack the universities for not paying athletes, these folks should invest their energies to work with the pro leagues to see that minor leagues are in place. Those kids that want to go into the pro leagues through the minor league system should be able to do so. Those who want to go to college and get an education -- as an amateur student athlete -- should also be able to do so.

Let me ask you this, why do you think folks are not approaching the problem from that standpoint?
 

ottodaorange

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I think the answer is simple and the answer to most questions of this ilk... power and money. Byers started a precedent and built the NCAA into an institution based on hypocrisy. The University presidents saw the dilemma but bought in due to the temptation of the money it provided for their institutions and the NFL supported it since it was the major feeder system for its riches. I think the only true place where you still see a scholar athlete is probably at the Division III level of competition. The high level athlete is therefore trapped in a system that is unfair and quite probably illegal... but the courts will decide that. The thing that is most remarkable is that no one has really challenged the policies set by Byers before now. Also it is not just football and basketball but as the article points out baseball as well.
 

anglerman

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Is free room, board, and bachelors degree not payment? At Syracyuse that's about $50,000 a year. Some would call thata pretty good paycheck.
 

SU2NASA

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Is free room, board, and bachelors degree not payment? At Syracyuse that's about $50,000 a year. Some would call thata pretty good paycheck.

And how about the value of the doors that having that degree opens up? It's not just $50,000/year, it's the difference in earnings over the course of your life between having that free degree and not.
 

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