This better get fixed and coaching is a huge part

[Millhouse]

Really, you got a link for that? Now you are just making up. Improvement on the 3rd down after 2009 was faster than any other factor so when would I have done that? It's much more important than a 50/50 punt decision.

No I'm not

 

[GoSU96]

No I'm not

Of course you are.

Here's a quote from a genius.

"being good on third down usually just means you're good in general and get third and shorts. i think that teams that are good on 3rd down are good on other downs.

i mostly just care about yards - if you get a lot of yards, you're going to be good at 3rd downs. red zone stats can fill in whatever's missing from yards - that's what separates good offenses from each other. we have room to improve there."

Really? You have a team ranked 25th in rushing, 48th overall on offense, 450 yds a game, rolls up all those yards, and can't score and can't move the chains when it counts.

How's the happen yard boy.

 

[Scooch]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Ridiculous

Like I said, this kinda bores me. But I'll be direct..,

When Marrone was here there were a bunch of posters who seemed to believe he could do no wrong. Maybe you weren't one of them, I'm not trying to single you out honestly. But there was a crew that would rush to his defense at any perceived slight. "...Inherited the worst BCS program..." was thrown around deep into his 4th year. As was "...total rebuild..."

Now Shafer, who only has the job because Marrone fled, can't catch any break from some folks. The guy who last year didn't have the luxury of starting a 5th year QB, a 1st round OLman and 2 quality senior WRs yet won exactly 1 fewer game than his predecessor did the year prior. That's pretty good, in the grand scheme.

Look, this year has sucked and who knows if this staff is up to the task. I just find it tiring that some of the same folks who spent 4 years constantly telling us that we have to support the coach have seemingly turned on the current one so quickly.

 

[GoSU96]

Like I said, this kinda bores me. But I'll be direct..,

When Marrone was here there were a bunch of posters who seemed to believe he could do no wrong. Maybe you weren't one of them, I'm not trying to single you out honestly. But there was a crew that would rush to his defense at any perceived slight. "...Inherited the worst BCS program..." was thrown around deep into his 4th year. As was "...total rebuild..."

Now Shafer, who only has the job because Marrone fled, can't catch any break from some folks. The guy who last year didn't have the luxury of starting a 5th year QB, a 1st round OLman and 2 quality senior WRs yet won exactly 1 fewer game than his predecessor did the year prior. That's pretty good, in the grand scheme.

Look, this year has sucked and who knows if this staff is up to the task. I just find it tiring that some of the same folks who spent 4 years constantly telling us that we have to support the coach have seemingly turned on the current one so quickly.

I haven't turned on anyone. I like how they are moving the ball. It's a great sign. Much better than last year, and I've said that repeatedly.

I think Hunt is capable of a lot more than most. I like that the passing game has been tweaked the last two weeks. I didn't think they had a chance against ND, and I certainty didn't kill them for it. I think the ingredients are in place to have an 8 win team still, if they can pull it together.

That doesn't mean it's all roses and sunshine. The fact they can't extend drives on offense and get off the field on defense is a huge issue. And the weakness on each side feeds and amplifies the weakness on the other.

They fix this one thing, and it's a matter of 4 or 5 plays a game on each side, this can be a very good team.

 

[Millhouse]

Of course you are.

Here's a quote from a genius.

"being good on third down usually just means you're good in general and get third and shorts. i think that teams that are good on 3rd down are good on other downs.

i mostly just care about yards - if you get a lot of yards, you're going to be good at 3rd downs. red zone stats can fill in whatever's missing from yards - that's what separates good offenses from each other. we have room to improve there."

Really? You have a team ranked 25th in rushing, 48th overall on offense, 450 yds a game, rolls up all those yards, and can't score and can't move the chains when it counts.

How's the happen yard boy.

What do you think the word "usually" means?

I think George McDonald is an idiot. I think he's an embarrassment. I think they on third down by throwing too much. I agree with you when you pin blame on McDonald for third downs. McDonald is unusually dumb and they are the exception to what generally happens thanks to him

Where we disagree about is what you posted when Marrone was here.

 

[upperdeck]

I you want to be good on 3rd down you need to be able to run, we are not good at running and no play calling can fix that. add in an inaccurate short range passer and struggles have begun..

Im am way more concerned we cant stop people

 

[Millhouse]

I you want to be good on 3rd down you need to be able to run, we are not good at running and no play calling can fix that. add in an inaccurate short range passer and struggles have begun..

Im am way more concerned we cant stop people

by running did you mean throwing?

 

[GoSU96]

What do you think the word "usually" means?

I think George McDonald is an idiot. I think he's an embarrassment. I think they on third down by throwing too much. I agree with you when you pin blame on McDonald for third downs. McDonald is unusually dumb and they are the exception to what generally happens thanks to him

Where we disagree about is what you posted when Marrone was here.

What did I post when Marrone was here?

 

[SWC75]

I you want to be good on 3rd down you need to be able to run, we are not good at running and no play calling can fix that. add in an inaccurate short range passer and struggles have begun..

Im am way more concerned we cant stop people

We are 24th in the country at running the ball, 232.5 yards per game:
http://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/team/23
Maybe you meant we aren't good at running on third down.

 

[upperdeck]

yes, but despite the numbers I still dont think we are very good at running. too many plays get blown up and no power game when its a running situation.

 

[anglerman]

What did I post when Marrone was here?

Are you serious?? You are by far the biggest Marrone supporter on this board and everyone knows it. You came to his defense every time some one criticized him. now you are extremely critical of this staff and it's only 4 games in to their second year. You are by far the biggest Marrone appologist on this board and everyone knows it but you apparently.

 

[GoSU96]

Are you serious?? You are by far the biggest Marrone supporter on this board and everyone knows it. You came to his defense every time some one criticized him. now you are extremely critical of this staff and it's only 4 games in to their second year. You are by far the biggest Marrone appologist on this board and everyone knows it but you apparently.

Just stop, obviously you can't actually track the content of a thread.

Millhouse made a specific claim about something I said.

That claim had no basis, that's the subject of the back and forth.

I haven't been close to extremely critical of this staff.

Learn how to read.

 

[Chip]

What did I post when Marrone was here?

I know for a fact that you sent him a Valentine's Day card.

As to your original post, what's most alarming is that we can't just say well we're failing so much on 1st and 2nd down that we're always in 3rd and long, which pushes down our 3rd down conversion rate. We're struggling too much on 3rd and short.

Was odd that one of the most authoritative, and successful, 3rd and short runs against ND was by none other than George Morris. Someone must have said *** it, just go for it, don't dance.

 

[GoSU96]

marrone is such a good talent evaluator that he tied his entire NFL future to ej manuel. who he has now benched. marrone gets credit for winning a few games with nassib, who was a grob recruit. that is all marrone gets.

1 player out of 85 does not a football team make. It ain't basketball.

 

[SWC75]

yes, but despite the numbers I still dont think we are very good at running. too many plays get blown up and no power game when its a running situation.

Whenever somebody says "despite the numbers" I think they should explain what is producing the numbers before we can dismiss them.

 

[orangehomer]

1 player out of 85 does not a football team make. It ain't basketball.

so the starting QB is not more important than the #85 schollie, gotcha.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Just stop, obviously you can't actually track the content of a thread.

Millhouse made a specific claim about something I said.

That claim had no basis, that's the subject of the back and forth.

I haven't been close to extremely critical of this staff.

Learn how to read.

You're really not helping your case.

 

[GoSU96]

You're really not helping your case.

What about what I said isn't true?

 

[Millhouse]

Marrone two year averages
first two years
326 ypg, 96 ranking
21.7 ppg, 96 ranking

middle two years
335 ypg, 94 ranking
23.2 ppg, 88 ranking

last two years
415 ypg, 54 ranking
27.2 ppg, 69 ranking

McDonald
two years (17 games)
394 ypg, 68 ranking
23.4 ppg, 94 ranking

Scoring and yardage through two years are more than Marrone's first two years and his second two years. I did two year chunks so you can drop Paulus and Spence if you want?

What would qualify as progress? Does McDonald get 4 years like Marrone, Hackett? I expect years three and four here to be a lot better than 415 yards 27 points. would that be progress?

With all of Hunts warts, this offense is better than the offense was in 2010 and 2011. That has to matter when evaluating progress.

mind you, I'm fine with canning McDonald. It could be so much better. But McDonald's first two years have 18% more yards (with only 1% more points) than 2010-2011

This reminds me of the 80/20 rule. We have an immature knucklehead running the offense but the easy line up 4 wide, shotgun all day, read option simple anyone can do it 20% leads to 80% of the success.

I think Marrone would've gone back to white knuckling it and wouldn't have continued with that 2012 trajectory which oh by the way had the exact same gap in yardage and scoring rankings than this year's

 

[retro44]

I know for a fact that you sent him a Valentine's Day card.

As to your original post, what's most alarming is that we can't just say well we're failing so much on 1st and 2nd down that we're always in 3rd and long, which pushes down our 3rd down conversion rate. We're struggling too much on 3rd and short.

Was odd that one of the most authoritative, and successful, 3rd and short runs against ND was by none other than George Morris. Someone must have said *** it, just go for it, don't dance.

We always went left on those plays and Hickey and Trudo basically produced nothing in those situations. Against 'nova these two were huge compared to the players they went against and we needed a trick play by the kick holder to win it after numerous attempts that netted negative yards on the goal line offense.

I am beginning to question if Hickey is an NFL talent at this point as he also has very timely costly penalties also.

Fire Hicks and things will improve

 

[Chip]

Fire Hicks and things will improve

Is this the new *** it?

Hickey had a bad game. Against a good defense at an inopportune time, given the stage and attention. That (crappy) roughing the passer call against ND showed Hickey getting tossed around like a kicker.

I think he'll recover.

 

[retro44]

saw that in the N.D. game as Hickey was man handled on that play as he looked like a freshman out there.

Is this the new *** it?

Hickey had a bad game. Against a good defense at an inopportune time, given the stage and attention. That (crappy) roughing the passer call against ND showed Hickey getting tossed around like a kicker.

I think he'll recover.

But my point was the very weak play against 'nova from the left side of the line. Against N.D. they got no push at all and got nothing on the 4th and 1 play. We need to change our thinking in those situations.

If you take away gully's long run against a very, very undersized 'nova defensive front we barely averaged 2 yards a rush.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Is this the new *** it?

Hickey had a bad game. Against a good defense at an inopportune time, given the stage and attention. That (crappy) roughing the passer call against ND showed Hickey getting tossed around like a kicker.

I think he'll recover.

I'm concerned. Hickey's been a lot more shaky potatoes this season than expected.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

What about what I said isn't true?

With all due respect, even if you've got your facts straight you're not going to convince people them by telling them to learn to read. Just sayin'.

 

[GoSU96]

Marrone two year averages
first two years
326 ypg, 96 ranking
21.7 ppg, 96 ranking

middle two years
335 ypg, 94 ranking
23.2 ppg, 88 ranking

last two years
415 ypg, 54 ranking
27.2 ppg, 69 ranking

McDonald
two years (17 games)
394 ypg, 68 ranking
23.4 ppg, 94 ranking

Scoring and yardage through two years are more than Marrone's first two years and his second two years. I did two year chunks so you can drop Paulus and Spence if you want?

What would qualify as progress? Does McDonald get 4 years like Marrone, Hackett? I expect years three and four here to be a lot better than 415 yards 27 points. would that be progress?

With all of Hunts warts, this offense is better than the offense was in 2010 and 2011. That has to matter when evaluating progress.

mind you, I'm fine with canning McDonald. It could be so much better. But McDonald's first two years have 18% more yards (with only 1% more points) than 2010-2011

This reminds me of the 80/20 rule. We have an immature knucklehead running the offense but the easy line up 4 wide, shotgun all day, read option simple anyone can do it 20% leads to 80% of the success.

I think Marrone would've gone back to white knuckling it and wouldn't have continued with that 2012 trajectory which oh by the way had the exact same gap in yardage and scoring rankings than this year's

What does any of that have to do with the fact that the teams ability to convert on 3rd down, which was the point on the original post?

I've said more than once that I'm happy with the way they have moved the ball and the adjustment in the pass game the last two weeks.

That's the whole point, the inefficiency, not the inherent capability, of this offense is holding them back.

I'd ***ing hope it would be better now, let alone year 3 and 4, considering he wasn't handed the worst offense in D-1 when he took over.