This board is out of control

[Trueblue25]

Exactly ... Ollison ran 8 ypc and almost 200 yards on us but no one's asking if our LB's or safeties are hurt.

Foster is hurt

 

[Chip]

The key this year has been all three phases playing together, Saturday they didn't dominate field position, the offense didn't protect the ball and didn't extend the lead that feeds the defensive advantage on pass rush, and the defense didn't get the third down stops they had been getting all year.

It absolutely wasn't one thing.

We also didn't win the kicker battle. For once. If anything, a push, ours did nothing wrong. But JC that guy. How many times will that happen in a game?

As others have said, I didn't like the forward progress lack of a whistle. That play was done. That said, Dungey would be better served to just accept that sometimes instead of inviting the fumble.

 

[RF2044]

The thing is, if we can get by with a 60-70% Dungey, I’m ok with giving it the ole college try.

That said, if he is then asked to win with his arm...and he can’t do it, then u have to question why DeVito hasn’t broken a sweat in the game already.

Especially given that he answered the bell against FSU.

Please don't take any of this as a call for Dungey to be replaced, but let's be honest -- he inexplicably missed a huge chunk of our opening game against WMU, where they quickly erased our huge lead and the coaching staff didn't put him back in until we were staring down the barrel of a loss. Against FSU on the first series, he missed some early throws badly, and the camera caught him hanging his arm after an errant pass as though he were injured, even though he hadn't been hit. He hasn't been as accurate as many expected, and he's badly misfiring on some seemingly easy throws. Something's gotta be up -- moreso than the coaching staff has led on.

 

[UelSU]

I'm not sure I'm buying the "Dungey is hurt" theory. Dungey is not, and has never really been, a super accurate thrower. He is for sure not on the same page with our WR's. How much of that is on the WR's? A lot, I would say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt Tommy could come in at this point, and just make the offense go without a serious leaning curve.

 

[SmilinBob]

You see a pretty girl dancing in a bar and you go up and ask her if she'll dance with you and she says yes (Chance for a bowl) You're dancing and now a slow song comes on and she continues to dance with you and your heart is racing. ...she pulls slightly away near the end of the dance (4-0 start and almost beat Clemson) and then...the song ends and her boyfriend shows up and she says..."thanks for the dance" and walks away. (Pitt game) Boys and girls that is how this one felt and of course emotions are going to go crazy, you were crushed and we all show it in different ways. Some go pick a fight, some mope, some leave, some drink more and others do XY or Z.

 

[KaiserUEO]

I'm not sure I'm buying the "Dungey is hurt" theory. Dungey is not, and has never really been, a super accurate thrower. He is for sure not on the same page with our WR's. How much of that is on the WR's? A lot, I would say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt Tommy could come in at this point, and just make the offense go without a serious leaning curve.

Go put in the FSU tape from THIS year.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not sure I'm buying the "Dungey is hurt" theory. Dungey is not, and has never really been, a super accurate thrower. He is for sure not on the same page with our WR's. How much of that is on the WR's? A lot, I would say. Maybe I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt Tommy could come in at this point, and just make the offense go without a serious leaning curve.

Any doubts I had about that went out the window when I saw him hanging his dangling shoulder prone against FSU in the first series.

 

[Cuseregular]

Especially given that he answered the bell against FSU.

Please don't take any of this as a call for Dungey to be replaced, but let's be honest -- he inexplicably missed a huge chunk of our opening game against WMU, where they quickly erased our huge lead and the coaching staff didn't put him back in until we were staring down the barrel of a loss. Against FSU on the first series, he missed some early throws badly, and the camera caught him hanging his arm after an errant pass as though he were injured, even though he hadn't been hit. He hasn't been as accurate as many expected, and he's badly misfiring on some seemingly easy throws. Something's gotta be up -- moreso than the coaching staff has led on.

Yep I'm saying this as someone who has been there and now as someone who treats such things and lectures on the topic for 28 years now (orthopedics).

He's essentially a weight lifter, and there's no group of the sporting population who has more shoulder issues than weight lifters. And of course he's essentially a pitcher with the wear and tear of years of throwing with not much rest to compound the issue.

Sometimes the issue is the serious stop you in your track problems but more often the nagging chronic recurrent types like impingement syndrome of the rotator cuff and/or bursa from a combination of the repetitive throwing motion along with weight lifting where most over work the usual muscles to get ripped (bis/tris/pecs/lats/delts), while too often paying too little attention to the short rotators (infraspinatous/teres minor n major and subscapularis) that protect against such shoulder issues.

This impinge/tendonitis type is actually what you hope for and is more common cause you can fight through it and improve with therapy. Less common is the more significant cartilage tears aka labral tears you can play through many times if they're mild to moderate. Like Terrence Roberts did years back on the hoops side with his knee issues putting off surgery til post season.

Not certain which of the two type issues dungys dealing with but I can guarantee its one of those. Add in the routine elbow overuse tendonitis issues he also appears to have (check the FSU tape grabbing his elbow) and you have an injured qb playing at 50-75% or so.

If I were coach I'd allow him to heal up this next two weeks and give him the next game to see how he looks and feels. If he's bouncing so many passes, etc. you gotta give devito some run.

 

[reedny]

you must've missed the posts where people want them to rotate in more LBs

good kicker and short fields can get you points despite the offense not being very good

I didn't "miss" them, Millmouse .. just adding the perspective in response to the overhype about Dungey's shoulder strain in this thread - duh. Obviously, he isn't at his best right now. Also obvious is the fact that better offense would help our defense (no chit). The point is, among our many injury/talent/experience issues, run support problems at safety and LB are the only ones so acute they threaten to derail the season.

 

[reedny]

Foster is hurt

I read that in the post-game. Cordy's nicked up too .. has been wearing a cast. But unless we get those guys healthy AND/OR rotate in some of that special teams talent .. we're headed for another disappointing November.

 

[reedny]

Assuming QB, LB, Safety are all hurt, which position do you feel most comfortable with the backup?

I'll hang up and listen.

I'll turn that around: which problem is the biggest threat to a successful season right now .. dungey's bruised arm or the fact that we can't stop the run to save our lives?

 

[Chip]

I'll turn that around: which problem is the biggest threat to a successful season right now .. dungey's bruised arm or the fact that we can't stop the run to save our lives?

Well, there's a lot to unpack there, so here goes.

1. Is it a bruised arm? Do you know that?

2. We're not a great team against the run, and knew going in that linebackers were a concern. Dino said as much. Having said that, the defense is holding its own for 3 quarters. Why is that? I'd say because guys are getting tired and we need to rotate people in. Not due to injury. So it's time to stop fearing the backup and give the starters more of a breather.

3. I don't want to see DeVito unless Dungey has an injury that's preventing him from being the QB he can be. I also don't want to see us give up on the RBs in the run game so quickly.

4. Our kicker is great. Has nothing to do with this, I just felt like saying it.

 

[two3zone]

We also run a high speed offense. PPG isn't as important as points per possession which we're ranked 32nd.

 

[TheCusian]

Yeah. Usually a team doesn't get better tackling in the middle of the season.

An offense can function better as it finds its footing though.

They are playing tentatively. And that can be fixed.

 

[TheCusian]

We also run a high speed offense. PPG isn't as important as points per possession which we're ranked 32nd.

That’s really good. In the past that number was in the 70’s

 

[two3zone]

That’s really good. In the past that number was in the 70’s

I'm not saying it's bad, but it could be better.

 

[MSOrange]

Yep I'm saying this as someone who has been there and now as someone who treats such things and lectures on the topic for 28 years now (orthopedics).

He's essentially a weight lifter, and there's no group of the sporting population who has more shoulder issues than weight lifters. And of course he's essentially a pitcher with the wear and tear of years of throwing with not much rest to compound the issue.

Sometimes the issue is the serious stop you in your track problems but more often the nagging chronic recurrent types like impingement syndrome of the rotator cuff and/or bursa from a combination of the repetitive throwing motion along with weight lifting where most over work the usual muscles to get ripped (bis/tris/pecs/lats/delts), while too often paying too little attention to the short rotators (infraspinatous/teres minor n major and subscapularis) that protect against such shoulder issues.

This impinge/tendonitis type is actually what you hope for and is more common cause you can fight through it and improve with therapy. Less common is the more significant cartilage tears aka labral tears you can play through many times if they're mild to moderate. Like Terrence Roberts did years back on the hoops side with his knee issues putting off surgery til post season.

Not certain which of the two type issues dungys dealing with but I can guarantee its one of those. Add in the routine elbow overuse tendonitis issues he also appears to have (check the FSU tape grabbing his elbow) and you have an injured qb playing at 50-75% or so.

If I were coach I'd allow him to heal up this next two weeks and give him the next game to see how he looks and feels. If he's bouncing so many passes, etc. you gotta give devito some run.

I have no idea what the deal is with Dungey but I think he's obviously hurt. FWIW I had to go to therapy for shoulder impingement earlier this year. Literally could not lift my arm over my head without pain but cleared up after about 5 sessions and daily exercises in between.

 

[JoeSU]

I have no idea what the deal is with Dungey but I think he's obviously hurt. FWIW I had to go to therapy for shoulder impingement earlier this year. Literally could not lift my arm over my head without pain but cleared up after about 5 sessions and daily exercises in between.

I had a similar experience with shoulder impingement -brought on when I painted my house one fall. Your description brought back memories of the excruciating pain - I recall trying an overhand serve at a volleyball game and it literally brought tears to my eyes.
I'm glad the PT worker for you without resorting to surgery, as it did for me (although mine took longer to resolve).

 

[Briancuse]

We're 17th in the country at 39 ppg and there's multiple threads of wanting to bench our 4 year starting qb that is creating the majority of those points on his own. Just completely idiotic.

Evaluating the qb position the past two weeks what grade would you give?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I mean one of my first thoughts about Devito was hoping the guy behind him next year is servicable because TD is small and the QB runs and gets hit in our system. Dungey is awesome but a full year with a guy dinged up isn't what you want to do. Means you have to comprimise your gameplan of trying to run the most plays of any offense in the country. You can't ask a dinged up QB to do that.

If we want to run the most plays of any team in CFB and be 'Orange is the new fast. IE his packages have him and Elmore as the backs with a tight end and he can be the RB himself or throw. The lack of talent at WR and LB needs to be offset by really sticking to our system. Have to plan on scoring a lot and gameplan to do so. Minute you slow down because your QB isn't 100% you go away from that.

 

[longtimefan]

I mean one of my first thoughts about Devito was hoping the guy behind him next year is servicable because TD is small and the QB runs and gets hit in our system. Dungey is awesome but a full year with a guy dinged up isn't what you want to do. Means you have to comprimise your gameplan of trying to run the most plays of any offense in the country. You can't ask a dinged up QB to do that.

If we want to run the most plays of any team in CFB and be 'Orange is the new fast. IE his packages have him and Elmore as the backs with a tight end and he can be the RB himself or throw. The lack of talent at WR and LB needs to be offset by really sticking to our system. Have to plan on scoring a lot and gameplan to do so. Minute you slow down because your QB isn't 100% you go away from that.

Check out Babers and his system as implemented at Bowling Green. The QB ran way less than Dungey has over the past 3 seasons. Remember--DeVito was recruited for this system. Dungey wasn't.

 

[wfschrec]

a lot of this fear is about expectations

the offense needs to get better quick because i don't think the defense can

The defense kept them in the Clemson game and lets just ignore the fact that the offense coughed up 10 gimmie points to Pitt ...

 

[wfschrec]

The key this year has been all three phases playing together, Saturday they didn't dominate field position, the offense didn't protect the ball and didn't extend the lead that feeds the defensive advantage on pass rush, and the defense didn't get the third down stops they had been getting all year.

It absolutely wasn't one thing.

Pitt was 3 for 12 on third down ... if it wasn't for a scoop and score and another turnover giving Pitt another 3 points we aren't even having this conversation.

 

[GoSU96]

I mean one of my first thoughts about Devito was hoping the guy behind him next year is servicable because TD is small and the QB runs and gets hit in our system. Dungey is awesome but a full year with a guy dinged up isn't what you want to do. Means you have to comprimise your gameplan of trying to run the most plays of any offense in the country. You can't ask a dinged up QB to do that.

If we want to run the most plays of any team in CFB and be 'Orange is the new fast. IE his packages have him and Elmore as the backs with a tight end and he can be the RB himself or throw. The lack of talent at WR and LB needs to be offset by really sticking to our system. Have to plan on scoring a lot and gameplan to do so. Minute you slow down because your QB isn't 100% you go away from that.

What is with the Elmore fixation? What are you talking about, going to a wing-T?

Yeesh.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

What is with the Elmore fixation? What are you talking about, going to a wing-T?

Yeesh.

No. Wildcat type short yardage running formation with Elmore as lead FB. Give him some RPO plays out of it where he looks at one read as a passer and has 1 or 2 holes to chose from as a runner.

Not saying you have to do this. Just saying Dungey could be used to his strengths more if the other guy played too. Devito series you'd bring Dungey in for a 3rd and 2.