This feels different

[Orangefizz]

In my opinion Dino is cashing checks just like the university is cashing ACC checks. I don’t get the sense of urgency at all. The only exception was benching TD and letting Shrader be the starting qb. I give Dino props for that

 

[Cuseregular]

The last time we beat Clemson what happened the week before? The time we had Clemson beat down there what happened the week before?

Yeah if you go back and look at my posting history (not hard don’t post THAT much! - lol), anyway you’ll see I was the only one calling the upset and then that down there we’d give em a tussle. This isn’t those years. We have a punchers chance of staying in games but the coaching decisions are so egregiously bad it can’t help effect their play.

I predicted we’d win yesterday (and for RU) not accounting for nor factoring in the stupidity of coaching decisions effecting the result (in game in this case to literally cost the game, RU not playing Shrader when it mattered).

What people who haven’t played the game discount and don’t get is the hangover effect with the nuance of how this type thing carries over week to week with the feeling you have to overcome your own coaches as welll as everything else.

Now all that said, the one place Dino might excel to make this less of a factor is if he actually starts listening and trusting his players.

If Shrader has a the moxie and personality to be hard core straight with Dino and start to exert control (tactfully) offering suggestions/asking for him to believe in him fully - going for it on fourth amd two -maybe just maybe Dino will listen as he doesn’t strike me as rigid and meat headed in personality (despite meat headed in game decisions).

So there’s a chance for future successes (read six wins and a bowl game). Pretty sure though that that ship has sailed because a paradigm shift as dramatic as required here can’t be done by most football people.

Babers has a chance but two games in a row lost in the fashion they were (coaching and referees for FSU, coaching for wake) this mental/emotional situation will be incredibly hard to overcome to change the mind sets inherent in this team now (let alone how physically we’re beat up now).

I will be AMAZED and surprised as One of the most surprising things I’ve ever seen in sports, ever, if they can get to six wins with these circumstances present. I will be VERY happy to have you busting my chops And bringing up this discussion down the road and eat crow if it actually happens. VERY happy my friend!

 

[longislandcuse]

I agree 100% with the OP.

It makes the issue with Dino so frustrating.

We seem like a team that has an identity, has young talent and could see a significant uptick in wins next year.

You don’t want to (potentially) blow that up by firing Dino.

….but he’s the main thing holding this team back.

 

[orangenauburn]

The year 6 thing is overblown. We haven't been spinning our wheels. We saw initial progress and then regression when we didn't do a good job replacing our star QB or OC/QB coach. Now it seems like we're building again.

We have the best RB we've had in a generation.

The oline is playing the best it has since 2012 with a new coach and some young pieces getting playing time.

The defense is the real deal, also with a bunch of young pieces that are on the field now.

The current OC seems to be figuring out his pieces and has adapted to personnel instead of stubbornly trying to cram a square peg into a round hole. We seem to see a little more variety and a new little wrinkle each game now that we've found a QB.

We've found a QB. He isn't perfect but he makes plays and we have him for more than just this year. Hopefully we have his replacement redshirting.

We had a deep hole to dig out of and progress isn't necessarily linear. I get being frustrated with some of the in game decision making, but I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You can see all over college football where programs make that mistake. Even decent programs we could consider peers have trouble consistently keeping it going, look at Northwestern.

The question is whose next after Shrader and Tucker?

Hopefully Hough is the answer and Morgan or Lamson can be like Shrader.

 

[orangenauburn]

In my opinion Dino is cashing checks just like the university is cashing ACC checks. I don’t get the sense of urgency at all. The only exception was benching TD and letting Shrader be the starting qb. I give Dino props for that

And he benched TD so he can keep cashing checks

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Quick cross reference

A) people who think refs don’t decide outcomes
B) people who think losing by 3 in OT to the best team in the ACC is entirely on Dino

Quick cross reference

People who will defend Dino and his nonsense til he dies.

People who think Wake Forest is the best team in the ACC.

 

[RF2044]

Quick cross reference

People who will defend Dino and his nonsense til he dies.

People who think Wake Forest is the best team in the ACC.

I think the actual cross reference is:

People who decided before the season that Dino should be fired, who are now rationalizing everything about the last two games for confirmatory bias.

People who recognize that the program's trajectory has changed now that the switch has been made to Garret Shrader, and are excited about the next 2.5 years -- especially how it positions us against peer programs.

 

[sufandu]

The question is whose next after Shrader and Tucker?

Hopefully Hough is the answer and Morgan or Lamson can be like Shrader.

That's a longer term question. We have Tucker for at least one more year and Shrader for two. If you look at the roster right now, the defensive talent and depth has been upgraded at all positions. The oline may have the best young talent it has had in a long time. We have the best RB we have had in a long time. WR is a question mark. QB isn't as good as when he arrived, at least the starter.

Dino has upgraded most of the roster. If he found Tucker we can believe he can find, or has already found, another. I'm hoping Lamson can be at least as good as Shrader but we'll have to wait and see there.

Top to bottom this is the best roster we have had in a very long time. Dino should get as much credit for that as the criticism he deserves for his boneheaded in game decisions.

 

[Ozone!]

What I see at 3-3 is…

 

[orangenauburn]

That's a longer term question. We have Tucker for at least one more year and Shrader for two. If you look at the roster right now, the defensive talent and depth has been upgraded at all positions. The oline may have the best young talent it has had in a long time. We have the best RB we have had in a long time. WR is a question mark. QB isn't as good as when he arrived, at least the starter.

Dino has upgraded most of the roster. If he found Tucker we can believe he can find, or has already found, another. I'm hoping Lamson can be at least as good as Shrader but we'll have to wait and see there.

Top to bottom this is the best roster we have had in a very long time. Dino should get as much credit for that as the criticism he deserves for his boneheaded in game decisions.

Which is why I think Dino will get extended

 

[whobut03]

Top to bottom this is the best roster we have had in a very long time

I agree with a lot of your points. However, we’re 3-3. This is a results based biz.

 

[RoatanCuse]

Yeah if you go back and look at my posting history (not hard don’t post THAT much! - lol), anyway you’ll see I was the only one calling the upset and then that down there we’d give em a tussle. This isn’t those years. We have a punchers chance of staying in games but the coaching decisions are so egregiously bad it can’t help effect their play.

I predicted we’d win yesterday (and for RU) not accounting for nor factoring in the stupidity of coaching decisions effecting the result (in game in this case to literally cost the game, RU not playing Shrader when it mattered).

What people who haven’t played the game discount and don’t get is the hangover effect with the nuance of how this type thing carries over week to week with the feeling you have to overcome your own coaches as welll as everything else.

Now all that said, the one place Dino might excel to make this less of a factor is if he actually starts listening and trusting his players.

If Shrader has a the moxie and personality to be hard core straight with Dino and start to exert control (tactfully) offering suggestions/asking for him to believe in him fully - going for it on fourth amd two -maybe just maybe Dino will listen as he doesn’t strike me as rigid and meat headed in personality (despite meat headed in game decisions).

So there’s a chance for future successes (read six wins and a bowl game). Pretty sure though that that ship has sailed because a paradigm shift as dramatic as required here can’t be done by most football people.

Babers has a chance but two games in a row lost in the fashion they were (coaching and referees for FSU, coaching for wake) this mental/emotional situation will be incredibly hard to overcome to change the mind sets inherent in this team now (let alone how physically we’re beat up now).

I will be AMAZED and surprised as One of the most surprising things I’ve ever seen in sports, ever, if they can get to six wins with these circumstances present. I will be VERY happy to have you busting my chops And bringing up this discussion down the road and eat crow if it actually happens. VERY happy my friend!

Nicely said, friend.

 

[sufandu]

I agree with a lot of your points. However, we’re 3-3. This is a results based biz.

It is. But I hope the people makjng the decisions can look beyond the simple metric of W-L. There is always context to consider unless you're a crazy SEC booster.

 

[UpstateSM]

I just looked at the advanced box score from Saturday and those numbers paint a pretty gross special teams picture. Our punting is pathetic: Wake had an average starting position of their own 36 and we averaged our own 24. Pair that with our former Groza winner missing a field goal I used to be confident in him making and you lose games that the numbers say you should win 83% of the time.

Not having a special teams coordinator is bad.

 

[721Comstock]

I just looked at the advanced box score from Saturday and those numbers paint a pretty gross special teams picture. Our punting is pathetic: Wake had an average starting position of their own 36 and we averaged our own 24. Pair that with our former Groza winner missing a field goal I used to be confident in him making and you lose games that the numbers say you should win 83% of the time.

Not having a special teams coordinator is bad.

So - IF we still had Lustig (for example) - Szmyt doesn't shank that FG somehow??
Because, reasons?

I get that the punting couldn't help but be improved, because it has sucked so bad.

But - we still have the same humans actually kicking the ball.
No amount of coaching is gonna change what they do in the moment.

 

[sufandu]

So - IF we still had Lustig (for example) - Szmyt doesn't shank that FG somehow??
Because, reasons?

I get that the punting couldn't help but be improved, because it has sucked so bad.

But - we still have the same humans actually kicking the ball.
No amount of coaching is gonna change what they do in the moment.

I don't know all that a special teams coach does. Is there something wrong with Szmyt's mechanics that a good coach could fix? It's not just one miss. He just hasn't looked as sharp. His percentage has gone down each year.

 

[721Comstock]

I don't know all that a special teams coach does. Is there something wrong with Szmyt's mechanics that a good coach could fix? It's not just one miss. He just hasn't looked as sharp. His percentage has gone down each year.

And yet - Lustig was here for all the prior years.

Not really helping make your case.

 

[Finwad32]

In my limited experience, kicking is about confidence. If you have a really good ball striker with good mechanics like Szmyt, it usually works out.

We know he can hit them, got to get him out of his own head.

It’s like a wedge shot though, if that club face (foot) is a little open or closed affecting where the ball is struck, tug or push.

 

[UpstateSM]

So - IF we still had Lustig (for example) - Szmyt doesn't shank that FG somehow??
Because, reasons?

I get that the punting couldn't help but be improved, because it has sucked so bad.

But - we still have the same humans actually kicking the ball.
No amount of coaching is gonna change what they do in the moment.

I get what you're saying but we went from being consistently above average/elite on special teams to being downright bad. And the slide coincides with not just losing our special teams guy but getting rid of the position altogether.

I'm not saying its our biggest problem but I'm pretty confident that we're 4-2/maaaaybe 5-1 if our special teams is at the level that we have been used to. Rutgers also kicked our butts on special teams.

Could just be an outlier year in the Dino era, I guess we'll see in a couple years.*


*Dino will still be our coach, imo

 

[elimunelson]

is there a chance that John Wildhack sits Dino down at the end of the year, sitting at say 5 wins, and tells him "we're not firing you, we love you but we need things to change..."

Couldn't JW take the money they would use to buy him out and use like 25% of it and find some sort of a George DeLeone assistant HC to help Dino with the game day stuff. There has to be someone out there who is much older but understands the rhythms of a game.

That man...i have no idea who that man is but this program is screaming for a wily old veteran to help Dino with some of this stuff. Think Don Zimmer with the Yankees.

Am I crazy to say this? I really like Dino but i really hate gameday w him.

 

[syrBossHogg]

is there a chance that John Wildhack sits Dino down at the end of the year, sitting at say 5 wins, and tells him "we're not firing you, we love you but we need things to change..."

Couldn't JW take the money they would use to buy him out and use like 25% of it and find some sort of a George DeLeone assistant HC to help Dino with the game day stuff. There has to be someone out there who is much older but understands the rhythms of a game.

That man...i have no idea who that man is but this program is screaming for a wily old veteran to help Dino with some of this stuff. Think Don Zimmer with the Yankees.

Am I crazy to say this? I really like Dino but i really hate gameday w him.

I kinda hoped they already had "the talk" last offseason which led to Dino bringing in Shrader, getting new position coaches, etc.

Man I really hope this season finishes great, but every week it feels like we're taking one step forward, two steps back.

 

[elimunelson]

I kinda hoped they already had "the talk" last offseason which led to Dino bringing in Shrader, getting new position coaches, etc.

Man I really hope this season finishes great, but every week it feels like we're taking one step forward, two steps back.

ironically that guy is probably Art Briles but I suspect Syracuse isn't touching him with a 200 foot pole. Someone Dino is familiar with and can mentor him through game day simulations. The position guys are either yes men or too inexperienced to question Dino during game time situations.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I kinda hoped they already had "the talk" last offseason which led to Dino bringing in Shrader, getting new position coaches, etc.

Man I really hope this season finishes great, but every week it feels like we're taking one step forward, two steps back.

Agreed, the problem is also that next year assuming he's back the offense looks decent save for continued issues at the WR position but the D will be a work in progress after losing our best CB and literally the entire 2 deep on the DL or just about the entire 2 deep. DL is a major concern next year.

 

[syrBossHogg]

Agreed, the problem is also that next year assuming he's back the offense looks decent save for continued issues at the WR position but the D will be a work in progress after losing our best CB and literally the entire 2 deep on the DL or just about the entire 2 deep. DL is a major concern next year.

Totally agree, would prolly need to bring in a WR transfer and multiple DL transfers. And that's assuming the current young guys at those positions show growth this year.