This is what happens when coaches get along and staffs are cohesive

[OrangePA]

You have no idea the context of what happened. You have no idea the working relationship, or the nuances of what happened from the beginning of his time at Syracuse to when the change occurred. Nobody does. But the way things happened and the sequence of events certainly make me believe the "conventional wisdom of the board" regarding McDonald and his outing his own demotion.

I'm pretty sure if I'm a manager, I don't make a change unless I absolutely feel that its the best decision to make at that given time. Shafer felt it was that time - and he only went public to "embarrass" him once it was already public. Which doesn't strike me as the most direct way to go about embarrassing someone you intend to embarrass (hence conventional wisdom, which is also the most logical).

You really don't have the right to criticize Shafer without also taking into account his side of the deal. No kidding McDonald was upset - anyone would be in that position. But with everything that I had seen from him regarding play calling - as well as public speaking (remember, the " It" article was already out) told me all I needed to know about the success he could or couldn't have as an offensive coordinator at Syracuse. It's possible Shafer saw it the same way.

Also - just because you would manage a certain way doesn't mean that's the end all, be all. Many different managerial philosophies work at many different organizational levels. You may have experience running all sorts of companies, you may even run a pretty big one. I don't really care, and I'm not sure it's really relevant - at least in my opinion it isn't.

Other coaches in the past have done things that were wrong, too. Hiring old buddies to run sides of the ball that they aren't qualified to run is Exhibit A on that list for me.

We don't know the inside facts.

We only know that a coordinator was demoted mid-season.

That does not happen very often for a reason.

Scott Shafer's motive is not the issue. It's his management of a problem that is at issue.

You believe it was handled well. I don't.

But I want to better understand your perspective.

Let's hear more.

What "old buddies"?

I want to know more about your view of past coaches and how they managed.

 

[OrangePA]

Am I wrong or didn't Marrone fire Casullo mid-season?

Yes.

He didn't "demote" him.

He fired him and moved on.

And that was it.

One more time. When did you start watching SU Football?

 

[Scooch]

Yes. He didn't "demote" him. He fired him and moved on. And that was it. One more time. When did you start watching SU Football?

Firing an assistant coach in-season is fairly rare too, right?

I'm not defending Shafer, I honestly don't care to relitigate something that happened months ago in the middle of a lost season.

 

[TheCusian]

We don't the inside facts. We only know that a coordinator was demoted mid-season. That does not happen very often for a reason. Scott Shafer's motive is not the issue. It's his management of a problem that is at issue. You believe it was handled well. I don't. But I want to better understand your perspective. Let's hear more. What "old buddies"? I want to know more about your view of past coaches and how they managed.

His motives and reasons for the demotion mid-season are the most pertinent information we don't have - therefore judging him on how it went is flawed at best.

 

[RoofBeam]

Judging Shafer is not flawed at all as we are not judging his motivations or any of his internal processes. We are judging the public perception created by the mid-season demotion of the first O Coordinator he hired as a head coach and the implementation and ramifications of whatever strategy underlies this decision, both of which are also quite available to the public.

His motives and reasons for the demotion mid-season are the most pertinent information we don't have - therefore judging him on how it went is flawed at best.

 

[TheCusian]

Judging Shafer is not flawed at all as we are not judging his motivations or any of his internal processes. We are judging the public perception created by the mid-season demotion of the first O Coordinator he hired as a head coach and the implementation and ramifications of whatever strategy underlies this decision, both of which are also quite available to the public.

My point is that if you don't know the full story - the worst you can say is that it looks bad. Any full judgement would take into account his internal processes and would be conducted by his boss. So I'm not sure that saying "that looks bad" over and over gets us anywhere meaningful. You either give him the benefit of the doubt or you don't. I choose to based on public perception of both men.

 

[kcsu]

Difficult situation all around. It was obvious that George was a horrible OC. Not just in over his head but flat out terrible. So what to do? Throw the season away? Not sure. Hindsight is nice but at the time i think this staff felt like he was the issue not the talent. Injuries started to mount and it just snowballed. I for one would have either kept him as OC with Lester in the box with him or fired him. The demotion was the problem

 

[OrangePA]

Firing an assistant coach in-season is fairly rare too, right?

I'm not defending Shafer, I honestly don't care to relitigate something that happened months ago in the middle of a lost season.

If you don't care to litigate, then don't litigate.

But, if you choose to discuss the issue, then at least get the analogy right - Rob Spence.

And please answer the question.

When did you first start watching SU Football?

 

[OrangePA]

Difficult situation all around. It was obvious that George was a horrible OC. Not just in over his head but flat out terrible. So what to do? Throw the season away? Not sure. Hindsight is nice but at the time i think this staff felt like he was the issue not the talent. Injuries started to mount and it just snowballed. I for one would have either kept him as OC with Lester in the box with him or fired him. The demotion was the problem

Very good.

Got it Scooch?

 

[Crusty]

Mcdonald is burning bridges everywhere he goes, and his job now is a downward trend, from both previous jobs.

Sounds like someone else we know.

 

[Scooch]

If you don't care to litigate, then don't litigate. But, if you choose to discuss the issue, then at least get the analogy right - Rob Spence. And please answer the question. When did you first start watching SU Football?

Why on earth does when I started watching SU football matter here?

 

[TheCusian]

Very good.

Got it Scooch?

I think the demotion was meant to be private, with both Lester and McDonald in the box - until the end of the season. McDonald spilled the beans and made it a mess. Hurt the school and his fellow coaches - and maybe to an extent the student athletes. It was a hard decision that blew up in Shafer's face. But make no mistake it was hugely aggravated by McDonald.

 

[RMH44]

I think the demotion was meant to be private, with both Lester and McDonald in the box - until the end of the season. McDonald spilled the beans and made it a mess. Hurt the school and his fellow coaches - and maybe to an extent the student athletes. It was a hard decision that blew up in Shafer's face. But make no mistake it was hugely aggravated by McDonald.

...and since Lester was sent to the box (replacing Smith) in the middle of the previous season...no one would of had a clue outside of the staff.

George McDonald made this a public event. He has no one other than himself to blame. Thin-skinned under achiever.

 

[Scooch]

Very good. Got it Scooch?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[TheCusian]

...and since Lester was sent to the box (replacing Smith) in the middle of the previous season...no one would of had a clue outside of the staff.

George McDonald made this a public event. He has no one other than himself to blame. Thin-skinned under achiever.

It always makes me think about what kind of role model he was being for his players. What if every time we decided to make a personal change the 1st stringer made a stink to the media? "If I'd known I wouldn't be 1st string RB, I would have gone to Vanderbilt" ... I'd bet the coaches would have some choice words for the player.

 

[RMH44]

It always makes me think about what kind of role model he was being for his players. What if every time we decided to make a personal change the 1st stringer made a stink to the media? "If I'd known I wouldn't be 1st string RB, I would have gone to Vanderbilt" ... I'd bet the coaches would have some choice words for the player.

I have no doubt that his public temper tantrum also hurt him professionally. He was hired by a former colleague (Doren) to do the same job he was doing at SU...probably for less money. He is damaged goods and it was all self-inflicted.

 

[Scooch]

It always makes me think about what kind of role model he was being for his players. What if every time we decided to make a personal change the 1st stringer made a stink to the media? "If I'd known I wouldn't be 1st string RB, I would have gone to Vanderbilt" ... I'd bet the coaches would have some choice words for the player.

Coaches are raging hypocrites.

 

[SUFan44]

...and since Lester was sent to the box (replacing Smith) in the middle of the previous season...no one would of had a clue outside of the staff.

George McDonald made this a public event. He has no one other than himself to blame. Thin-skinned under achiever.

Very good.

Got that, OrangePA?

 

[NKR1978]

I am praying NC State makes him their OC. Couldn't be a better situation for everyone in the conference.

Someone could make Lester their OC. That would be good for us.

 

[OttoMets]

It always makes me think about what kind of role model he was being for his players. What if every time we decided to make a personal change the 1st stringer made a stink to the media? "If I'd known I wouldn't be 1st string RB, I would have gone to Vanderbilt" ... I'd bet the coaches would have some choice words for the player.

Exactly. This was what bothered me most - McDonald presented himself as a poor role model. Not the behavior I expect from someone who's in the business of educating college-aged kids.

 

[Symphony Steve]

You're certainly right. We don't know the facts.

All I can say is that in my business - even when an employee of mine is obviously struggling - sometimes the best move is really no move at all.

Sometimes just giving the person more time is the right move.

Sometimes making a change should be done later rather than earlier.

That is how I tend to manage.

I don't panic and I don't act as if my business is on the line based upon a few weeks or months worth of employee activity.

I would not have demoted Coach McDonald during the season. I would have stuck with him and would have recognized that I was responsible for my decision and I was responsible for putting my guy in a position to succeed.

Other SU coaches in the past have done that.

Just me. But that's how I would have approached it.

Can I come work for you?

 

[OrangePA]

Why on earth does when I started watching SU football matter here?

I guess because you didn't answer it in the other thread.

Why are you so reluctant to answer?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Can we just agree that it was handled poorly by all parties. It was a complete and total clusterF***.

 

[OrangePA]

Can I come work for you?

Of course.

How are your litigation skills these days?

 

[Symphony Steve]

Of course.

How are your litigation skills these days?

Uh, never mind...