This is what happens when coaches get along and staffs are cohesive

[OrangePA]

The guy froze in the box making calls. We lost red zone points and maybe games figuring that out.

If he was showing improvement, then whatever. But if he's costing you games? Proves he can't hack it? Do you just ride it out?!?

Do we really know that rumor to be true?

Did anybody go on the record that the rumor is true?

I honestly do not recall.

 

[rrlbees]

Do we really know that rumor to be true? Did anybody go on the record that the rumor is true? I honestly do not recall.

No we don't know that to be true. It's Internet lore.

 

[bevosu]

McDonald may not have been a very good OC, but that team deserves a lot of the blame for what they produced on the field. I didn't seen any improvement after he was relieved of his OC duties.

Questionable quarterbacking, an offensive line that couldn't open up holes. Below average execution. Injuries.

Silk purse-sow's ear. The material was sub par.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

No we don't know that to be true. It's Internet lore.

It does sound kind of strange, I think the guy stinks as an OC but how does one freeze in the box in the red zone, you would think he probably had a pretty good idea what they thought would work week to week, call the play and go, might not work but the thought of him freezing up in the box, seems like folklore to me

 

[TheCusian]

Do we really know that rumor to be true? Did anybody go on the record that the rumor is true? I honestly do not recall.

Anomander's track record is pretty clear.

 

[TheCusian]

It does sound kind of strange, I think the guy stinks as an OC but how does one freeze in the box in the red zone, you would think he probably had a pretty good idea what they thought would work week to week, call the play and go, might not work but the thought of him freezing up in the box, seems like folklore to me

Yeah - but IF it's true and it happened more than once - guy has to go.

 

[OrangePA]

He brought much of that humiliation onto himself by throwing a public temper tantrum. I always thought he was the weakest link in HCSS's staff.

He was given a shot at OC because of his recruiting prowess...which failed miserably. It will be interesting to see if/when he ever gets another shot as an OC at a P5 school.

I wonder how well I would have handled the situation had I been hung out like that.

I have to believe it could have been handled better than it was by the man in charge.

 

[TheCusian]

I wonder how well I would have handled the situation had I been hung out like that. I have to believe it could have been handled better than it was by the man in charge.

And what would you have done?

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah - but IF it's true and it happened more than once - guy has to go.

So we took delay of games or used timeouts? While it's not always followed as a game goes along, these plays are already charted based on down, distance, even hash.

 

[TheCusian]

So we took delay of games or used timeouts? While it's not always followed as a game goes along, these plays are already charted based on down, distance, even hash.

Or let the clock run out at the end of the half, or run a running play in an obvious spot where we needed to pass, etc.

 

[OrangePA]

And what would you have done?

Well, I know I would have been very upset - all of us would have been upset.

I would have felt that I had been hung out to dry.

I hope - but can't promise - that I wouldn't have gone public in the manner Coach McDonald did. I might have observed to a reporter "if I had known I was going to get so little time to prove myself, I would have stayed in the SEC."

I don't know if I would have said it.

But that's how I would have felt - that I was not given enough time - that I was embarrassed publicly and professionally.

 

[baggerbob]

I wonder how well I would have handled the situation had I been hung out like that.

I have to believe it could have been handled better than it was by the man in charge.

If it was just the bad offense, he might still be here, but George had a bad case of foot in mouth his entire time here. He embarrassed himself, and the staff numerous times, he needed to be gone.

 

[PhatOrange]

I think freezing in the box is just another way to put being indecisive. There was always so much confusion, trouble getting plays, delays, and time outs. As soon as Lester went to the box as OC all that stopped.

Clearly, for what happened mid-season with the demotion there had to be a lot of sht going on behind the scenes.

 

[TheCusian]

Well, I know I would have been very upset - all of us would have been upset. I would have felt that I had been hung out to dry. I hope - but can't promise - that I wouldn't have gone public in the manner Coach McDonald did. I might have observed to a reporter "if I had known I was going to get so little time to prove myself, I would have stayed in the SEC." I don't know if I would have said it. But that's how I would have felt - that I was not given enough time - that I was embarrassed publicly and professionally.

No - what did you think Shafer should do? If you'd lost all confidence in the guy you hired and felt you were losing games based on offensive ineptitude?

 

[OrangePA]

No - what did you think Shafer should do? If you'd lost all confidence in the guy you hired and felt you were losing games based on offensive ineptitude?

Oh, what would I have done had I been Coach Shafer?

First, I would have understood the following: (1) I brought the guy to Syracuse; (2) I kept him as the OC after my first year; (3) I had him running the offense after the spring and coming out of summer camp; (4) the OC's starting QB got thrown out of game one - my fault - and was hurt against I think MD?; (4) the OC's OL was hurt coming out of the shoot; (5) I don't want my pick of an OC to look bad publicly - I don't want to embarrass a guy who has worked hard for me or ruin his aspirations by taking provocative action halfway through the season; (6) I work with the guy - I give him more help - I perhaps privately instruct him to share play calling during games or I give myself veto power over play calling and (7) I do not demote the guy halfway through the season - I wait until after the season.

Demoting Coach McDonald did not help the team - it certainly did not improve the offense.

And maybe it got others in the profession wondering what kind of program is being run at Syracuse University.

So, my short answer is this - I would have supported my guy and I would not have demoted him.

 

[OrangePA]

If it was just the bad offense, he might still be here, but George had a bad case of foot in mouth his entire time here. He embarrassed himself, and the staff numerous times, he needed to be gone.

I didn't feel embarrassed by anything Coach McDonald said or did.

I can't speak for anybody else in that regard.

 

[CanadianSU]

I am praying NC State makes him their OC. Couldn't be a better situation for everyone in the conference.

Yes. Please.

 

[TheCusian]

Oh, what would I have done had I been Coach Shafer? First, I would have understood the following: (1) I brought the guy to Syracuse; (2) I kept him as the OC after my first year; (3) I had him running the offense after the spring and coming out of summer camp; (4) the OC's starting QB got thrown out of game one - my fault - and was hurt against I think MD?; (4) the OC's OL was hurt coming out of the shoot; (5) I don't want my pick of an OC to look bad publicly - I don't want to embarrass a guy who has worked hard for me or ruin his aspirations by taking provocative action halfway through the season; (6) I work with the guy - I give him more help - I perhaps privately instruct him to share play calling during games or I give myself veto power over play calling and (7) I do not demote the guy halfway through the season - I wait until after the season. Demoting Coach McDonald did not help the team - it certainly did not improve the offense. And maybe it got others in the profession wondering what kind of program is being run at Syracuse University. So, my short answer is this - I would have supported my guy and I would not have demoted him.

We don't know if Shafer did or didn't do most of those things you suggest. We know that Lester joined him in the booth at the end of his first season - a sure sign that he was on thin ice.

I don't think Shafer meant for the info to come out publicly. I also am confident people would have skewered Shafer either way... That's why they are tough decisions.

I respect your opinion, but don't think we have enough info to really say what happened.

 

[SUFan44]

In what way?

He did what to himself?

Serious questions.

Did you notice that Shafer didn't announce anything until McDonald had already come out and given quotes HIMSELF about getting demoted?

You don't find that strange, at all?

2+2=4. McDonald was pissed and went to the press to whine and complain about the demotion. Shafer's intention was not to humiliate him - rather the opposite, actually.

 

[OrangePA]

Did you notice that Shafer didn't announce anything until McDonald had already come out and given quotes HIMSELF about getting demoted?

You don't find that strange, at all?

2+2=4. McDonald was pissed and went to the press to whine and complain about the demotion. Shafer's intention was not to humiliate him - rather the opposite, actually.

Well, yes, I guess that's the conventional wisdom on this board.

I don't know the timing of what was supposed to happen or what was discussed between the two or what instructions were given to Coach McDonald. None of us does.

But I do know that he was demoted - period - halfway into the season.

And I know that he was very upset by what happened to him - he clearly felt he was treated unfairly.

And, I know that the demotion did not change anything offensively - as far as I could tell at least.

Part of being a good administrator or manager is having the ability to foresee the ramifications of your decision making. And, a big part of being an administrator is to prevent upheaval within the program or workforce - especially when the contemplated move will not change anything.

This situation should not have occurred. It does not seem that the head coach truly contemplated either the lay of the land or the likely ramifications of the decision that was made.

I may be wrong, but that's how I see it.

 

[OrangePA]

We don't know if Shafer did or didn't do most of those things you suggest. We know that Lester joined him in the booth at the end of his first season - a sure sign that he was on thin ice.

I don't think Shafer meant for the info to come out publicly. I also am confident people would have skewered Shafer either way... That's why they are tough decisions.

I respect your opinion, but don't think we have enough info to really say what happened.

You're certainly right. We don't know the facts.

All I can say is that in my business - even when an employee of mine is obviously struggling - sometimes the best move is really no move at all.

Sometimes just giving the person more time is the right move.

Sometimes making a change should be done later rather than earlier.

That is how I tend to manage.

I don't panic and I don't act as if my business is on the line based upon a few weeks or months worth of employee activity.

I would not have demoted Coach McDonald during the season. I would have stuck with him and would have recognized that I was responsible for my decision and I was responsible for putting my guy in a position to succeed.

Other SU coaches in the past have done that.

Just me. But that's how I would have approached it.

 

[Scooch]

Am I wrong or didn't Marrone fire Casullo mid-season?

 

[SUFan44]

You're certainly right. We don't know the facts.

All I can say is that in my business - even when an employee of mine is obviously struggling - sometimes the best move is really no move at all.

Sometimes just giving the person more time is the right move.

Sometimes making a change should be done later rather than earlier.

That is how I tend to manage.

I don't panic and I don't act as if my business is on the line based upon a few weeks or months worth of employee activity.

I would not have demoted Coach McDonald during the season. I would have stuck with him and would have recognized that I was responsible for my decision and I was responsible for putting my guy in a position to succeed.

Other SU coaches in the past have done that.

Just me. But that's how I would have approached it.

You have no idea the context of what happened. You have no idea the working relationship, or the nuances of what happened from the beginning of his time at Syracuse to when the change occurred. Nobody does. But the way things happened and the sequence of events certainly make me believe the "conventional wisdom of the board" regarding McDonald and his outing his own demotion.

I'm pretty sure if I'm a manager, I don't make a change unless I absolutely feel that its the best decision to make at that given time. Shafer felt it was that time - and he only went public to "embarrass" him once it was already public. Which doesn't strike me as the most direct way to go about embarrassing someone you intend to embarrass (hence conventional wisdom, which is also the most logical).

You really don't have the right to criticize Shafer without also taking into account his side of the deal. No kidding McDonald was upset - anyone would be in that position. But with everything that I had seen from him regarding play calling - as well as public speaking (remember, the " It" article was already out) told me all I needed to know about the success he could or couldn't have as an offensive coordinator at Syracuse. It's possible Shafer saw it the same way.

Also - just because you would manage a certain way doesn't mean that's the end all, be all. Many different managerial philosophies work at many different organizational levels. You may have experience running all sorts of companies, you may even run a pretty big one. I don't really care, and I'm not sure it's really relevant - at least in my opinion it isn't.

Other coaches in the past have done things that were wrong, too. Hiring old buddies to run sides of the ball that they aren't qualified to run is Exhibit A on that list for me.

 

[RoofBeam]

Bottom line is that Shafer is the face of the program and the person making the decisions. When the program looks like it is being run by a bunch of clowns in coach costumes then he is the focal point of blame...What went down with McDonald raises a lot of questions about the direction of the program and the capacity of Shafer to run it. I don't think that this disaster signals that Shafer is doomed to fail but in my opinion there is more than enough reason to criticize him for exposing the program to ridicule and to hope he learns from this rather large and looming mistake.

You have no idea the context of what happened. You have no idea the working relationship, or the nuances of what happened from the beginning of his time at Syracuse to when the change occurred. Nobody does. But the way things happened and the sequence of events certainly make me believe the "conventional wisdom of the board" regarding McDonald and his outing his own demotion.

I'm pretty sure if I'm a manager, I don't make a change unless I absolutely feel that its the best decision to make at that given time. Shafer felt it was that time - and he only went public to "embarrass" him once it was already public. Which doesn't strike me as the most direct way to go about embarrassing someone you intend to embarrass (hence conventional wisdom, which is also the most logical).

You really don't have the right to criticize Shafer without also taking into account his side of the deal. No kidding McDonald was upset - anyone would be in that position. But with everything that I had seen from him regarding play calling - as well as public speaking (remember, the " It" article was already out) told me all I needed to know about the success he could or couldn't have as an offensive coordinator at Syracuse. It's possible Shafer saw it the same way.

Also - just because you would manage a certain way doesn't mean that's the end all, be all. Many different managerial philosophies work at many different organizational levels. You may have experience running all sorts of companies, you may even run a pretty big one. I don't really care, and I'm not sure it's really relevant - at least in my opinion it isn't.

Other coaches in the past have done things that were wrong, too. Hiring old buddies to run sides of the ball that they aren't qualified to run is Exhibit A on that list for me.

 

[TheCusian]

Bottom line is that Shafer is the face of the program and the person making the decisions. When the program looks like it is being run by a bunch of clowns in coach costumes then he is the focal point of blame...What went down with McDonald raises a lot of questions about the direction of the program and the capacity of Shafer to run it. I don't think that this disaster signals that Shafer is doomed to fail but in my opinion there is more than enough reason to criticize him for exposing the program to ridicule and to hope he learns from this rather large and looming mistake.

First sentence was your best.

Tough decisions have ramifications in either direction. And usually require trade offs. That's why they are tough, right? So it's fair to criticize - just know that the other choice might have been just as bad and made the school look awful too.

I'm sure demoting one of his friends was a hard choice, with a lot of deliberation. I just choose to give him the benefit of the doubt.