This Team is Good

[Orangemen]

I think the early deficit to Cornell, and the tight game with St Francis has distorted some opinions of this team.

Everyone is struggling here and there early in the season. Duke came extremely close to losing to UVM at Cameron Indoor. 5 years ago that type of result was unthinkable. UK came as close to losing to Clev St as we did to losing to St Francis. MSU struggled against Columbia at home. UNC lost at home to Belmont.

We just put up 92 points and won by 11 against a high major likely NCAA tourney team, and there are a number of posts saying we have a terrible offense and that we didn't win by enough. This is crazy. How many points should we have beaten Cal by? OK, so they were down a main player, that doesn't mean the outcome is any different had he played. Cal relied a lot more on Kravish, who likely put up more points than he would have had Soloman played. And yeah, he was out of the game for a significant amount of time, but that was the whole plan going in. Attack him and foul him out.

We've got a really good team on our hands that is going to be much better by March. Ennis is one of the top 3 or 4 PG's to ever come through this place. If he stayed 4 years, the only PG that would be ahead of him is Pearl (who can never be passed- obviously). He's already a very effective and poised guard. 3 months from now, with a season basically under his belt, he will be excellent. He's already pulling off some MCW-esque moves. The 2 steals to seal the Minny game were very reminiscent of MCW icing the game in Louisville. He's already a better FT shooter than MCW ever was. The defense will never be as consistently excellent as MCW was, but he'll be good enough. The passing isn't quite as good as MCW, but Ennis passing ability is at worst only a level or 2 behind him. His shooting percentage may not be better right now, but the shots will drop (like they did last night), and by March, I doubt that shooting ability will be an issue for him.

We're not going 40-0, but we are going to be a team competing for the NC.

 

[Dave85]

Last year Cooney struggled and as a fan I was a little frustrated. I did my best to hold back my criticisms and I valued GMac's judgement that it would all work out fine. And when Cooney sunk his first 3 in front a big crowd last year I was very happy for him with all the cheers.

But man, I did not see this coming. This year TC is simply sensational. All the hard work he did on his legs over the summer has definitely helped. He seems to be so much stronger on the court this season. His ability to get separation and the height of his jump shots are amazing! At this point in his career, he reminds me of Andy Rautins as a senior. I just can't even imagine what TC is going to be like when he is a senior! Right now, congratulations to Trevor Cooney!!! TC, if you see this, great work young man!!!

 

[cusetown1]

Last year Cooney struggled and as a fan I was a little frustrated. I did my best to hold back my criticisms and I valued GMac's judgement that it would all work out fine. And when Cooney sunk his first 3 in front a big crowd last year I was very happy for him with all the cheers.

But man, I did not see this coming. This year TC is simply sensational. All the hard work he did on his legs over the summer has definitely helped. He seems to be so much stronger on the court this season. His ability to get separation and the height of his jump shots are amazing! At this point in his career, he reminds me of Andy Rautins as a senior. I just can't even imagine what TC is going to be like when he is a senior! Right now, congratulations to Trevor Cooney!!! TC, if you see this, great work young man!!!

Thanks

 

[Orange Barrel]

I just can't even imagine what TC is going to be like when he is a senior!

The beauty of this is that we will see Trevor as a senior.

 

[Dave85]

Thanks

Your T-Shirt avatar never gets old!

 

[cusetown1]

You T-Shirt avatar never gets old!

Thanks

 

[edowd26]

6-0. Played some quality teams, beat them. Seen some real positives on both sides of the court. I have no reason why we won't continue to get better and better especial as the confidence builds in the younger guys. We can certainly be dominant.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I was with the OP until the hyperbole spun out of control with the Ennis top 3 or 4 pg's to come through here. Let's lay off the one game perspective and see how this plays out first. You can be good and still not be top 3 or 4.

 

[Orangemen]

I was with the OP until the hyperbole spun out of control with the Ennis top 3 or 4 pg's to come through here. Let's lay off the one game perspective and see how this plays out first. You can be good and still not be top 3 or 4.

That's fair. I don't think he is top 3 or 4 right now, but when his career is done, he'll be talked about in that category.

That being said, he is as good as any Frosh PG I've seen at SU (too young to remember Frosh Pearl). He is very poised, and doesn't get too emotional in any direction. I think he'll have his up and downs, but I think he is an excellent PG.

 

[ebucklewis]

I think the early deficit to Cornell, and the tight game with St Francis has distorted some opinions of this team.

Everyone is struggling here and there early in the season. Duke came extremely close to losing to UVM at Cameron Indoor. 5 years ago that type of result was unthinkable. UK came as close to losing to Clev St as we did to losing to St Francis. MSU struggled against Columbia at home. UNC lost at home to Belmont.

We just put up 92 points and won by 11 against a high major likely NCAA tourney team, and there are a number of posts saying we have a terrible offense and that we didn't win by enough. This is crazy. How many points should we have beaten Cal by? OK, so they were down a main player, that doesn't mean the outcome is any different had he played. Cal relied a lot more on Kravish, who likely put up more points than he would have had Soloman played. And yeah, he was out of the game for a significant amount of time, but that was the whole plan going in. Attack him and foul him out.

We've got a really good team on our hands that is going to be much better by March. Ennis is one of the top 3 or 4 PG's to ever come through this place. If he stayed 4 years, the only PG that would be ahead of him is Pearl (who can never be passed- obviously). He's already a very effective and poised guard. 3 months from now, with a season basically under his belt, he will be excellent. He's already pulling off some MCW-esque moves. The 2 steals to seal the Minny game were very reminiscent of MCW icing the game in Louisville. He's already a better FT shooter than MCW ever was. The defense will never be as consistently excellent as MCW was, but he'll be good enough. The passing isn't quite as good as MCW, but Ennis passing ability is at worst only a level or 2 behind him. His shooting percentage may not be better right now, but the shots will drop (like they did last night), and by March, I doubt that shooting ability will be an issue for him.

We're not going 40-0, but we are going to be a team competing for the NC.

FWIW - I love Pearl as much as anyone (still have my Orange shirt with Pearl sitting on the dome)
however, if we are going to evaluate point guards, the #1 criteria is winning - much like quarterbacks
the conventional wisdom is that the reason we lost to Navy was that David Robinson was a man amongst boys (and that is partially accurate), but Navy had some short guy, that looked like me, having a field day lobbing passes to David Robinson - we've had a lot of point guards that would've never allowed that to happen..

 

[pfister1]

I was with the OP until the hyperbole spun out of control with the Ennis top 3 or 4 pg's to come through here. Let's lay off the one game perspective and see how this plays out first. You can be good and still not be top 3 or 4.

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
...
3. Hart
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Hart
DuVal

9. Autry
Jardine
Triche

Agreed, top 3 or 4 is an awfully tall order. A little early to induct him into that group.

 

[Orangemen]

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
...
3. Hart
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Hart
DuVal

9. Autry
Jardine
Triche

Agreed, top 3 or 4 is an awfully tall order. A little early to induct him into that group.

Forgot Sherm (how could I forget Sherm)- he's not passing Sherm.

I think Pearl is locked in to the top spot for all the off the court things he brought in addition to his on court game. Pearl brought the program to a whole other level, and was our counter balance to Ewing down at Gtown.

GMac is a special case, as he was super important to the program, but wasn't your typical floor leader PG. If you count GMac as a PG, which I guess you have to, he's probably not passable either.

But he can pass MCW, he can pass Hart, and he can pass Flynn. He hasn't yet, but given 2 years, I don't think it will be a crazy argument.

 

[CorduroyG]

this team is good. real good.

the best!

 

[pfister1]

Forgot Sherm (how could I forget Sherm)- he's not passing Sherm.

I think Pearl is locked in to the top spot for all the off the court things he brought in addition to his on court game. Pearl brought the program to a whole other level, and was our counter balance to Ewing down at Gtown.

GMac is a special case, as he was super important to the program, but wasn't your typical floor leader PG. If you count GMac as a PG, which I guess you have to, he's probably not passable either.

But he can pass MCW, he can pass Hart, and he can pass Flynn. He hasn't yet, but given 2 years, I don't think it will be a crazy argument.

I hear what you are saying about GMAC, but keep in mind he is #3 in career assists at SU. He has a handful more that Pearl, of course he played 40 more games than Pearl. Because he was such a prolific scorer it can be hard to think of him as a point guard, but that is what he played for most of his career and he had a 4.8 career APG average to boot. The assists per game average is top 8 all time at SU for guys that make the top 100 all time assists leaders at SU.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I think the early deficit to Cornell, and the tight game with St Francis has distorted some opinions of this team.

...

We've got a really good team on our hands that is going to be much better by March. Ennis is one of the top 3 or 4 PG's to ever come through this place. If he stayed 4 years, the only PG that would be ahead of him is Pearl (who can never be passed- obviously)

...

I agreed with everything but the bolded section. For me, no one tops Sherman...including Pearl...But other than that, GREAT POST!!!

 

[SWC75]

FWIW - I love Pearl as much as anyone (still have my Orange shirt with Pearl sitting on the dome)
however, if we are going to evaluate point guards, the #1 criteria is winning - much like quarterbacks
the conventional wisdom is that the reason we lost to Navy was that David Robinson was a man amongst boys (and that is partially accurate), but Navy had some short guy, that looked like me, having a field day lobbing passes to David Robinson - we've had a lot of point guards that would've never allowed that to happen..

Navy went to the line 54 times in that game. We went 21 times. That's why we lost.

 

[Conrad13]

I agreed with everything but the bolded section. For me, no one tops Sherman...including Pearl...But other than that, GREAT POST!!!

I was pretty young when Pearl was playing, but I started to get really into basketball during the Douglas years. One of the things that Douglas and Ennis have in common is that although neither of them dominate athletically, they're both great floor generals. I remember feeling like the game was under control when Douglas was running the show and I get the same feeling when Ennis is bringing the ball up the court.

 

[SoBristol]

I think the early deficit to Cornell, and the tight game with St Francis has distorted some opinions of this team.

Everyone is struggling here and there early in the season. Duke came extremely close to losing to UVM at Cameron Indoor. 5 years ago that type of result was unthinkable. UK came as close to losing to Clev St as we did to losing to St Francis. MSU struggled against Columbia at home. UNC lost at home to Belmont.

We just put up 92 points and won by 11 against a high major likely NCAA tourney team,
We're not going 40-0, but we are going to be a team competing for the NC.

Strong game last night -- season-high contributions from Ennis & Grant, second best game ever from Cooney, as well as solid play from Fair. When we get all that in the same game, fine -- we can beat top 30 teams. A lot of positives to take away from 6-0 (as expected).

And, I expect JB would say, the defense needs to improve (top of the zone & down low), and the centers need to rebound. A lot of top 20 teams are better than Cal, which is what -- 5th or 6th best in its conference?

 

[kuethstheman]

Forgot Sherm (how could I forget Sherm)- he's not passing Sherm.

And as long as this is still the ESPN era, he's not passing Flynn either.

 

[Orangezoo]

Good Post. This team has immense potential on the offensive end. Much like in 03 and in the years with Jonny, the defense will not be dominant but will be effective and tighten up when it needs to. Last year was a special year defensively. The year before was as well until Fab flunked out. What Maui is showing is really important for the rest of the year. The game by game development of Ennis as a threat to score and the danger of giving Cooney an inch of space creates openings for CJ to do his thing. It also gives Jerami more space and will allow us to get the ball in the post as teams look to avoid letting us get hot from outside.

Free Throw shooting now in Maui is a breath of fresh air. Hopefully they bring it back to the mainland as well. I expect it will drop some as the rims are not so soft in central ny or on tobacco road. This years team will need to win like it did last night often. Being efficient and aggressive on offense and opportunistic and work hard on D. In 03 we were ok defensively and great offensively. With Wes/Andy/AO/Ricky we were in a similar boat. I would say that year was one of the best offensive teams I can remember ever having. The shooting was lights out and we had true low post scoring.

What is great so far this year is we have played a team that wants to make it a rock fight, a team that likes to press and a team who is really good on offense and survived all. Tonight we get the really big team who can match our size. Lot of different samplings. I think the game this year that most intrigues me is UNC. From a team makeup they are very much a mirror to us. Good but young guards. One real lights out shooter ( if he comes back) , a solid talented SF and then a bunch of big athletic bodies to throw in and out in the post.

 

[Dave85]

Free Throw shooting now in Maui is a breath of fresh air.

If the percentage drops below 80% we should arrange for tanks of compressed Maui air to be shipped to Syracuse where it can be used to inflate the Dome.

 

[IthacaMatt]

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
...
3. Hart
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Hart
DuVal

9. Autry
Jardine
Triche

Agreed, top 3 or 4 is an awfully tall order. A little early to induct him into that group.

Duval was not a point, and Gerry, to me anyway, was better as the off guard than he was at setting up other people. How many times did he run off of Forth screens for catch-and-shoot 3's?

I think Edelin belongs on the list, despite the limited amount of games he played for us. When he was on his game, he was right up there with the best we've had. I also think that Z Sims in his one year had a year for the ages.

 

[IthacaMatt]

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
...
3. Hart
Flynn
GMac
MCW
Hart
DuVal

9. Autry
Jardine
Triche

Agreed, top 3 or 4 is an awfully tall order. A little early to induct him into that group.

My list:

1. Sherm
2. Pearl
3. Flynn
4. Autry
5. GMac
6. Eddie Moss
7. Jardine
8. MCW
9. Edelin
10. Z Sims

I could see Ennis getting as high as #6 if he leaves after a year or two. If he stays longer, he could rise as high as #4, IMO.

 

[richard levy]

I think the early deficit to Cornell, and the tight game with St Francis has distorted some opinions of this team.

Everyone is struggling here and there early in the season. Duke came extremely close to losing to UVM at Cameron Indoor. 5 years ago that type of result was unthinkable. UK came as close to losing to Clev St as we did to losing to St Francis. MSU struggled against Columbia at home. UNC lost at home to Belmont.

We just put up 92 points and won by 11 against a high major likely NCAA tourney team, and there are a number of posts saying we have a terrible offense and that we didn't win by enough. This is crazy. How many points should we have beaten Cal by? OK, so they were down a main player, that doesn't mean the outcome is any different had he played. Cal relied a lot more on Kravish, who likely put up more points than he would have had Soloman played. And yeah, he was out of the game for a significant amount of time, but that was the whole plan going in. Attack him and foul him out.

We've got a really good team on our hands that is going to be much better by March. Ennis is one of the top 3 or 4 PG's to ever come through this place. If he stayed 4 years, the only PG that would be ahead of him is Pearl (who can never be passed- obviously). He's already a very effective and poised guard. 3 months from now, with a season basically under his belt, he will be excellent. He's already pulling off some MCW-esque moves. The 2 steals to seal the Minny game were very reminiscent of MCW icing the game in Louisville. He's already a better FT shooter than MCW ever was. The defense will never be as consistently excellent as MCW was, but he'll be good enough. The passing isn't quite as good as MCW, but Ennis passing ability is at worst only a level or 2 behind him. His shooting percentage may not be better right now, but the shots will drop (like they did last night), and by March, I doubt that shooting ability will be an issue for him.

We're not going 40-0, but we are going to be a team competing for the NC.

Tyler stealing the inbounds pass and making the layup reminded me of Sherm, my personal favorite

 

[RoysRunts]

FWIW - I love Pearl as much as anyone (still have my Orange shirt with Pearl sitting on the dome)
however, if we are going to evaluate point guards, the #1 criteria is winning - much like quarterbacks
the conventional wisdom is that the reason we lost to Navy was that David Robinson was a man amongst boys (and that is partially accurate), but Navy had some short guy, that looked like me, having a field day lobbing passes to David Robinson - we've had a lot of point guards that would've never allowed that to happen..

Must be you didn't watch the Navy game earlier in the season (At the Dome)