This team vs. the 09/10 team

[DrysdaleBlue]

ESPN classic played the Marquette @ SU game back from '10 when we had wes, andy, ao, etc...We were up by about 14 points with a couple minutes left when MU decided to press. We proceeded to turn the ball over like 3 straight possessions and allow them to make a game of it.


While that team probably passed the ball better than this years team, I noticed that they REALLY struggled with pressure defenses. We had a frosh Triche, Andy and Scoop as our backcourt. All very good players but no one that can physically beat there man one on one on a consistent basis. IMO the reasons for a lot of our losses in the past few years has been our guards inability to handle the pressure in a half court game. Honestly, with Dion, a senior scoop, and a junior (IMO very athletic when he doesnt play tentative) Triche, I dont see that being a problem for the team this year.

We lost to marquette last year because we had too many turnovers. I dont see that happening this year. If we lose, it will be because the other team shot the lights out, or 3-4 guys didnt show up.

 

[cusetown1]

ESPN classic played the Marquette @ SU game back from '10 when we had wes, andy, ao, etc...We were up by about 14 points with a couple minutes left when MU decided to press. We proceeded to turn the ball over like 3 straight possessions and allow them to make a game of it.

While that team probably passed the ball better than this years team, I noticed that they REALLY struggled with pressure defenses. We had a frosh Triche, Andy and Scoop as our backcourt. All very good players but no one that can physically beat there man one on one on a consistent basis. IMO the reasons for a lot of our losses in the past few years has been our guards inability to handle the pressure in a half court game. Honestly, with Dion, a senior scoop, and a junior (IMO very athletic when he doesnt play tentative) Triche, I dont see that being a problem for the team this year.

We lost to marquette last year because we had too many turnovers. I dont see that happening this year. If we lose, it will be because the other team shot the lights out, or 3-4 guys didnt show up.

That's why Louisville beat us twice that year. It didn't help that they shoot the lights out against us either.

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

I absolutely loved the 2009-2010 team with their Shut it Down defense. I treasured the UNC blowout and Bob Knight's gushing. I hoped against hope that the "pass up a good shot for a better shot" mentality would graft onto the following year's team. It didn't so much (Dion didn't mesh well), and with AO gone, the fearsome "Twin Tower" aspect of the Orange rebounding game was gone, even though Rick was a beast all by himself. KJ, Scoop and Brandon were still a year away and Melo was a first-year bust. The 2009-2010 personality just skipped a year, happy to say.

This year's team has surpassed all expectations so far. They're better ball handlers now (Louisville isn't going to press us blind like they've done before), and they've taken the pass-for-a-better-shot game to a higher level. All four guards can drive and shoot, Melo is a game-changing force in the middle, KJ's game is solid, and CJ fills in all the gaps. The Shut it Down defense that forced bad shots and made other teams execute with the shot clock running out has been replaced this year by what I call their "Steal and Deal" defense (even though posters liked my "Grand Theft Otto" slogan better) that is more of an attacking defense. They managed the ball, the clock and the game well against Providence; they withstood DePaul's pressing defense; and they have made their 3-pt. game effective because the shooter often is wide open to take a relaxed shot. I foresee their outside shooting will only get better by tournament time, and that Steal-and-Deal will keep them in any game they play while their 3-pt. shooting will bust open any game at any time. The Fine flap hasn't caused them to lose focus, they've got their heads on straight, nobody's throwing temper tantrums, and they're taking care of business.

And I thought it couldn't get better than 2009-2010. Silly me.--VBOF

 

[SoBristol]

The 2009-10 team was certainly stronger inside on offense, better on the defensive boards, and had two outside shooters (Wes and Andy) that were more deadly than any two on the current team.
The current team has more spare parts (depth), more shooters, and better ball-handling guards. Yes, Scoop and Brandon are marginally better than they were by the second half of 2009-10, but the real difference is having Dion emerging as a ball handler and penetrator to pair with either of those two. To beat the press, the 2009-10 team had to involve Wes and KJ and had to sit Brandon. Teams that press us now will end up watching Dion and Scoop making lay-ups or feeding KJ for slams.

 

[SWC75]

I'd still go with the 2009-2010 team. A truly great offesnive team when everybody was healthy. Two inside scorers, two great outside shooters. The inside guys give us two targets feeding the post and they could pass back and forth between eachother or get it back outside for open threes. Scoop and Brandon were young but played well at the point. And Andy was amazing on both offense and defense.

 

[cusetown1]

This years team is better than 09-10 team.

 

[SoBristol]

Great debate to have -- two teams that had long win streaks to start the season, got ranked #1, played the right way. The 2009-10 team is my pick, because we all know that unless AO goes down in the BET, we make the final four and have a NC opportunity. It had everything except stellar PG play.

This current team has better guard play (despite not matching Andy Rautins in shooting) and that can make a big difference in tight games and tournaments. It is also younger, with emerging stars (Dion and Melo) who have the chance to get better month to month. That 2009-10 team was simply outstanding in November and had mature leadership (AO, Wes and Andy) and dominance on the defensive glass (Rick). Both teams had exceptional #6 and #7 talent, but this team goes deeper with Keita and Southerland.

The edge goes to 2009-10 -- unless Melo gets a lot better by March. And he just might.

 

[OttoMets]

As of today, 2010's the winner. While I hope this year's team handles a press better than in 2010, we've yet to see a Marquette- or Louisville-quality press. Perhaps we'll know more tomorrow evening.

Also, until we see some sustained excellence, I'm not sure our half-court offense is superior to the 2010 group. Still, the defense is the most important part and it looks like we've got it.

 

[cusetown1]

As of today, 2010's the winner. While I hope this year's team handles a press better than in 2010, we've yet to see a Marquette- or Louisville-quality press. Perhaps we'll know more tomorrow evening.

Also, until we see some sustained excellence, I'm not sure our half-court offense is superior to the 2010 group. Still, the defense is the most important part and it looks like we've got it.

I will give the edge in half court offense to 2010. But this team hasn't even had to use it much. When they did need it they shot 73% from the floor.

 

[OttoMets]

I will give the edge in half court offense to 2010. But this team hasn't even had to use it much. When they did need it they shot 73% from the floor.

That was fortunate, since even a stellar 50% would've earned us a big L. But I wouldn't expect us to repeat that performance too often (though I do like our chances against Providence next week quite a bit).

 

[cusetown1]

That was fortunate, since even a stellar 50% would've earned us a big L. But I wouldn't expect us to repeat that performance too often (though I do like our chances against Providence next week quite a bit).

They also did that with Fab in foul trouble. That game was such an anomaly. A game that could have easily been lost but was decided by double digits. And there wasn't even much stat padding at the end.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I haven't watched a Marq game replay, but I do remember something they (and Butler the year before) did to knock us out of the NCAA's; they really got out on our guards at the top of the key. Extended out to 30' most of the game with harassing defense. Scoop and BT didn't handle it very well back then.

This year will probably be a little different if Buzz plays the same style of defense, because of Dion's ability to break down the defense if the defender over commits out to 30'. Dion had his best game (offensively) vs. Marq in last year's NCAA game, and he didn't play in the loss at Marq. Don't be surprised if Dion goes off for 20+ in tomorrow's game.

 

[OttoMets]

They also did that with Fab in foul trouble. That game was such an anomaly. A game that could have easily been lost but was decided by double digits. And there wasn't even much stat padding at the end.

And no Baye. And officiating that was a solid 3 out of 10 (only thing that saved it from a zero were a couple of whistles on late Providence charges and a first-half handcheck on Scoop).

This is why I feel good about the rematch. Wednesday night was a bit of a perfect storm and we still won.

 

[SWC75]

Great debate to have -- two teams that had long win streaks to start the season, got ranked #1, played the right way. The 2009-10 team is my pick, because we all know that unless AO goes down in the BET, we make the final four and have a NC opportunity. It had everything except stellar PG play.

This current team has better guard play (despite not matching Andy Rautins in shooting) and that can make a big difference in tight games and tournaments. It is also younger, with emerging stars (Dion and Melo) who have the chance to get better month to month. That 2009-10 team was simply outstanding in November and had mature leadership (AO, Wes and Andy) and dominance on the defensive glass (Rick). Both teams had exceptional #6 and #7 talent, but this team goes deeper with Keita and Southerland.

The edge goes to 2009-10 -- unless Melo gets a lot better by March. And he just might.

When we have debates about which of our teams or players are better, we can't lose them.

 

[RF2044]

Great debate to have -- two teams that had long win streaks to start the season, got ranked #1, played the right way. The 2009-10 team is my pick, because we all know that unless AO goes down in the BET, we make the final four and have a NC opportunity. It had everything except stellar PG play.

This current team has better guard play (despite not matching Andy Rautins in shooting) and that can make a big difference in tight games and tournaments. It is also younger, with emerging stars (Dion and Melo) who have the chance to get better month to month. That 2009-10 team was simply outstanding in November and had mature leadership (AO, Wes and Andy) and dominance on the defensive glass (Rick). Both teams had exceptional #6 and #7 talent, but this team goes deeper with Keita and Southerland.

The edge goes to 2009-10 -- unless Melo gets a lot better by March. And he just might.

I agree--great debate! I know the story is still being written for this year's squad, but both teams have the potential to go down as being amongst the top teams in program history.

The '09-'10 team had better inside scoring, was more consistent from three, and was a bit better on the defensive boards.

Both teams were / are remarkably efficient scoring [as evidenced by the advanced offensive metrics].

I'll give the current team a slight edge defensively for the number of steals / blocks they generate, but again the advanced metrics suggest these teams are close in that regard. The bench / depth is also superior here [as crazy as that sounds, given how our bench was viewed as a strength in '09-'10].

One major difference is that the '09-'10 team turned the ball over indiscriminantly--and many of these turnovers were unforced. This was, IMO, the Achilles heel of an otherwise tremendously talented team, and ultimately led to their downfall in the NCAA tournament. The current team does a much better job taking care of the ball.

If I had to pick, I'd actually give the edge to this year's team--bigger, more depth, extra fouls in the pivot, and more diversified scoring. I love Arinze, but he tended to struggle against bigger, shot blocking, defensive minded centers. I think Fab possibly might be able to battle him to a standstill. And the current team is capable of getting hot from three, mitigating that advantage somewhat.

Again, interesting topic of debate.