This teams ability to reach a bowl is going to live or die with the passing game

[JeremyCuse]

At this point a few things are clear, our running game can have success on pretty much anyone (if we can run on Clemson we can run on the rest of the ACC) but our passing game is pretty much a dumpster fire at this point at least against other BCS level teams. Hunt has done a good job utilizing his feet to extend drives, keep a play alive, score touchdowns, and pretty much bring an element to the team we haven't seen since pretty much Mcnabb.

That being said our passing numbers the last two weeks are something out of a nightmare, 0 touchdowns, 5 picks, our top WR has zero catches and our #2 has two catches for about 6 yards. I think the last two games combined Hunt has a QB rating of maybe 75. To me this a huge game for not only Hunt but for West, Kobena and Clark. If we lay another egg in the passing game Saturday the staff if going to be hard pressed not to make a few changes as the blueprint for the NC State win is simply not a game plan you can rely on week in and week out.

All that being said if this team can produce even a below average passing game the sky could be the limit with our schedule down the stretch, a bowl game would be huge for this team and program this year.

 

[dinosaurbbq]

With the defense we have, particularly the front 7 and against the run, and the running game we have, it would be a damn shame not to make a bowl game. The play book needs to be changed and dumbed down to let these kids' talent play.

 

[JeremyCuse]

With the defense we have, particularly the front 7 and against the run, and the running game we have, it would be a damn shame not to make a bowl game. The play book needs to be changed and dumbed down to let these kids' talent play.

Agreed that it would be a shame but this team also has a lot of warts. The secondary is still hit or miss, if NC State had any type of QB they would have had at least one additional TD, a couple times they had guys wide open and the ball ended up no where near the receiver. With the D though I still feel we can play with nearly all of the ACC save for Clemson and FSU. The passing game has me concerned big time, its been bad save for the Wagner game and parts of Tulane. We really need to show something Saturday or wholesale changes could be in the works at least at the WR position, maybe even Allen back under center.

 

[Entropic]

They need to get the ball to broyld and estime in space and make the passing game about YAC. Just throw in some long handoffs once in a while to keep the defense honest against the short handoff. If either of those guys get the ball with one to beat because the defense is stuffing 8-9 in the box it could make for some big plays. One or two playactions with screen action like Clemson ran against us would work I think as well to open a couple deep balls.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I agree with you but I think it all depends on how good the defense plays. We aren't going to win any shoot outs like last year, If they give up over 28-30 points, I think we are pretty much going to lose that game. Even with a passing game, we aren't going to be a quick strike O. It's going to be a real battle every game to find enough points to win.

Again, no idea what to expect from this team on a weekly basis, nothing would surprise me. We have enough talent to win 8 games but I could see 4-5 wins as well

 

[TheCusian]

Agreed that it would be a shame but this team also has a lot of warts. The secondary is still hit or miss, if NC State had any type of QB they would have had at least one additional TD, a couple times they had guys wide open and the ball ended up no where near the receiver. With the D though I still feel we can play with nearly all of the ACC save for Clemson and FSU. The passing game has me concerned big time, its been bad save for the Wagner game and parts of Tulane. We really need to show something Saturday or wholesale changes could be in the works at least at the WR position, maybe even Allen back under center.

We left some points on the field in the 1st half as well. I rewatched and our RB's were ready to roll from the 1st snap.

Much of the success we've been having is predicated on the threat of the run from Hunt. Allen doesn't bring that to the table. No pocket presence.

 

[Crusty]

Good thoughts.

The good news is that it should not take much to get better in the passing game from this point.
Our remaining schedule (save for FSU) is easier so I am hopeful. I don't think tomorrow will swing on the passing game though. I think it is all the D. If they shut down GT we will be OK. We match up pretty well with a good NT and LB's and our DB's are pretty good at the run D.

I am really hopeful about tomorrow. Then, we have a bye week.

It is not out of the question for us to beat GT and Wake. We would then face Maryland at 5-3 with only one win remaining to qualify for a bowl. That would make for a very interesting game.

 

[weakstraw]

this thread headline just took the air out of my bong hit. I have faith that SU will prevail at 7-5

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

I don't think the pass routes could be any more vanilla. I think the offense is designed for big athletic playmaking WR, unfortunately they aren't on the roster. Until the players change the system needs to be tweaked. To me the pass off of the zone read is they play that is missing. It seems to me that West should get some time in the slot. Broyld might be a better athlete than West, but he really struggles catching the ball away from his body.

 

[All4SU]

They need to get the ball to broyld and estime in space and make the passing game about YAC. Just throw in some long handoffs once in a while to keep the defense honest against the short handoff. If either of those guys get the ball with one to beat because the defense is stuffing 8-9 in the box it could make for some big plays. One or two playactions with screen action like Clemson ran against us would work I think as well to open a couple deep balls.

Our downfield (and wide) blocking has pretty much determined that their is no "space." We are going to have to start creating some.

 

[JeremyCuse]

They need to get the ball to broyld and estime in space and make the passing game about YAC. Just throw in some long handoffs once in a while to keep the defense honest against the short handoff. If either of those guys get the ball with one to beat because the defense is stuffing 8-9 in the box it could make for some big plays. One or two playactions with screen action like Clemson ran against us would work I think as well to open a couple deep balls.

I think play action and mis direction are the way to go, I know like you I had hoped for more from Estime and even Broyld but opposing defenses aren't dumb they know Estime is extremely limited at this point and they know that Syracuse really only has a few designed plays for him. Thats why I cant figure out why guys like Moore, Funderburk even Ben Lewis dont get more invovled in the passing game, they are normally used in running situations if at all so play action to those guys should be there plus Moore has alrleady shown he can be used in space in the middle of the field which is what this team desperately needs.

I think Mis-direction, screens and some more varied pass routes would go along way to help this passing offense. What happened to the slants, rub routes, crossing patters, etc. Hell we ran Moore up the middle of the field for a big gain and a touchdown against NW, and havent run the play since.

 

[Crusty]

I don't think the pass routes could be any more vanilla. I think the offense is designed for big athletic playmaking WR, unfortunately they aren't on the roster. Until the players change the system needs to be tweaked. To me the pass off of the zone read is they play that is missing. It seems to me that West should get some time in the slot. Broyld might be a better athlete than West, but he really struggles catching the ball away from his body.

That play was in the playbook last year. It was a devastating play.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

That play was in the playbook last year. It was a devastating play.

That's what makes it so frustrating. Lemon was awesome in the slot, Broyld is a good athlete but nowhere near the receiver Lemon or Sales were.

 

[Crusty]

That's what makes it so frustrating. Lemon was awesome in the slot, Broyld is a good athlete but nowhere near the receiver Lemon or Sales were.

Broyld may actually be better than Sales. He is on a better pace. He may actually catch Lemon. This kid is good. He gets open.

 

[RMH44]

Broyld may actually be better than Sales. He is on a better pace. He may actually catch Lemon. This kid is good. He gets open.

Catch Lemon in what?

 

[JeremyCuse]

Catch Lemon in what?

Career catches

 

[TheCusian]

It will be interesting to see if the opposing secondary starts playing more zone to keep our RB, QB in front if them on runs. All of those big runs came from the safety's cheating up and missing, while CB's were playing man on our smaller/slower WR. (I think)

Did Tulane and Wagner play a lot of zone against us? Is Hunt more comfortable finding holes in the zone vs waiting for our WR's to break open (if they do) against man?

 

[RMH44]

Career catches

Wow...I'd be happy if he could catch Sales @ 132. I'd be ecstatic if he came close to Lemon's 201 career catches.

 

[Pat Kelly]

I disagree, our run game did nothing the first few weeks, which is why we lost. Our success will live and die with how we run the ball.

 

[JeremyCuse]

I disagree, our run game did nothing the first few weeks, which is why we lost. Our success will live and die with how we run the ball.

We lost the Penn State game because our offense as a whole couldnt get out of its own way. Northwestern we lost because our defense couldnt stop anything, it didnt matter if we had Jim Brown, Floyd Little and Moose Johnson in there primes back there.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Agree with the premise but I think our passing game will result in what level bowl game we make vs if we make one or not. We will win 3 more games even with our anemic passing game. If one of our QB's came out throwing well, we may have been looking at a 9-3 type season. If it doesn't improve 6-6 or 7-5 may be the result.

 

[Alsacs]

Jeremy, I think it honestly boils down to the fact our WRs can't get open. I don't think Hunt is as good as he will be in 2 yrs after he plays more but the WRs are best case inconsistent or worst case sub-par minus Broyld. I think the number 1 recruiting goal is to get some WRs to come in and play next year. My friend's brother is the HC of a HS team in NC and he said the easiest position for a true freshman to play is WR followed by RB. We need better WRs for our passing game to be good. Lemon and Sales showed you don't need 5 star recruits all you need is a couple 3 star/4 star recruits and we can be good in the passing game.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Agree with the premise but I think our passing game will result in what level bowl game we make vs if we make one or not. We will win 3 more games even with our anemic passing game. If one of our QB's came out throwing well, we may have been looking at a 9-3 type season. If it doesn't improve 6-6 or 7-5 may be the result.

Maybe, but in my opinion its going to be awful difficult to win 3 additional games with that type of passing game. Not taking anything away from our performance but relying on SU to run for 300+ yards every game is unrealistic especially as teams continue to scout SU and make adjustments. To me this has the feel of 2011 where if this team cant at least get some passing game going we could hit a bad streak especially if the defense starts to wear down.

 

[JeremyCuse]

Jeremy, I think it honestly boils down to the fact our WRs can't get open. I don't think Hunt is as good as he will be in 2 yrs after he plays more but the WRs are best case inconsistent or worst case sub-par minus Broyld. I think the number 1 recruiting goal is to get some WRs to come in and play next year. My friend's brother is the HC of a HS team in NC and he said the easiest position for a true freshman to play is WR followed by RB. We need better WRs for our passing game to be good. Lemon and Sales showed you don't need 5 star recruits all you need is a couple 3 star/4 star recruits and we can be good in the passing game.

I agree with you, I think the WR core needs a complete overhaul, and I think its clear the staff does to based on the number of WR's we are bringing in for next year. That being said after watching last weeks game Hunt is definitely a bigger part of the problem then I thought. Some of this throws were mystifying and hes starting to rack up Int numbers that are close to being on par with Allen. If you look back at the passing numbers and QB rating the past two games the results are abysmal, I mean unbelievably bad. Are the WR's mostly to blame? Perhaps, but thats lead to the question then why haven't we seen Alvin, Funderburk, Lewis, Moore, one of the Frosh Wr's? Why isnt Broyld running some actual pass patters besides a bubble screen, ditto for Estime? The passing game and passing play calling could totally torpedo this season if we dont get at least moderate improvement starting tomorrow.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Maybe, but in my opinion its going to be awful difficult to win 3 additional games with that type of passing game. Not taking anything away from our performance but relying on SU to run for 300+ yards every game is unrealistic especially as teams continue to scout SU and make adjustments. To me this has the feel of 2011 where if this team cant at least get some passing game going we could hit a bad streak especially if the defense starts to wear down.

Suppose I feel a bit better due to the depth we have on D and the fact that they seem to be improving as the season goes vs wearing down as the season progresses. I always thought the D would carry us but I didnt think they would take quite this long to come together.