this year was the second hardest schedule in Syracuse history

[SUFan44]

I wonder what the strength of conference schedule is - no easy way to find it. I don't think this team was great. I just think 20 wins against this schedule is comparable to other seasons with 23-24 wins (none of us thought those seasons were great either but it's tricky to get used to downgrading expectations for wins even though it makes sense when your schedule is harder)

Over a 5-year span, all of these conference schedules should even out - these records don't include ACC Tournament play which is more random.

Syracuse has given back games to a lot of teams they don't or shouldn't normally give them back to over the last 5 years. Why should expectations be downgraded? That doesn't make any sense to me. Comparative to the rest of the league, we are 8th in overall record. Schedule being hard didn't have an affect on us in the Big East, did it?

According to Basketball Reference, we had the 15th toughest schedule in the country in 2011-12 -- we went 34-3. The next year we had the 12th toughest schedule and went 30-10. In 2010-11, we went 27-8 with the 16th toughest schedule in the country. In 2008-09, we went 28-10 with the 3rd (THIRD) toughest schedule in the country. I understand you are using the actual rating number, but shouldn't that be relative to the rest of the country too?

Louisville and Notre Dame both have better records than Syracuse over the last 5 years in ACC play and they came from the same place. We were consistently ahead of one of them in the old conference, and every other year ahead of the other over the last 5 years in the Big East.

The bottom line is the product on the court is not nearly as good. The offense stinks, the defense this year regressed with the same players as last year. The players aren't getting better. I could go on.

 

[Millhouse]

Why should expectations be downgraded? That doesn't make any sense to me.

The harder your schedule, the fewer wins you're going to get all else equal. Obviously, 2011-12 was a fabulous team.

 

[RandygoCuse]

How do our strength of wins compare to other years?

 

[SUFan44]

The harder your schedule, the fewer wins you're going to get all else equal. Obviously, 2011-12 was a fabulous team.

2008-09?

Maryland had the same schedule we did this year and went 23-11. They've leapfrogged our program.

Minnesota had 22 wins with a much more difficult schedule than ours, relatively speaking.

It's not about us historically -- it's about the rest of the country, too, and where we fall in the landscape.

The program is slipping.

 

[Millhouse]

2008-09?

Maryland had the same schedule we did this year and went 23-11. They've leapfrogged our program.

Minnesota had 22 wins with a much more difficult schedule than ours, relatively speaking.

It's not about us historically -- it's about the rest of the country, too, and where we fall in the landscape.

The program is slipping.

maryland

three wins doesn't mean they've leapfrogged the program - come on

5 year average SRS is very close (13.4 to 14.6) and our average schedule is a little harder.

minnesota has a lower SRS than us this year FWIW

 

[RF2044]

2008-09?

Maryland had the same schedule we did this year and went 23-11. They've leapfrogged our program.

Minnesota had 22 wins with a much more difficult schedule than ours, relatively speaking.

It's not about us historically -- it's about the rest of the country, too, and where we fall in the landscape.

The program is slipping.

I don't agree with your first two sentences about Maryland / Minnesota.

But I sure agree with your last sentence.

 

[SUFan44]

maryland

three wins doesn't mean they've leapfrogged the program - come on

5 year average SRS is very close (13.4 to 14.6) and our average schedule is a little harder.

minnesota has a lower SRS than us this year FWIW

Maybe I'm apt to a bit of hyperbole, but these numbers mean nothing to me because I see what I see on the court and I see our players compared to others.

I watched the entire Oregon-UC Irvine game, and I also watched the UCF-Duke game.

UCF would beat us 8 out of 10 times. UC Irvine would be 5 out of 10, maybe 6-7. Wofford is in this category, too.

I realize these are blips on the radar, but next year there will be other blips on the radar that are better than us, too. Wichita State, Nevada, SMU, Northwestern.

Just tired of being consistently mediocre. This program shouldn't be struggling to get an 8 seed.

 

[44cuse]

i can go to a url and hit sort like nobody's business - this one i can't screw up!

Eh...you have to think about caring to look it up in the first place. That’s the harder part. Most here would just with the “the zone sucks!” or “everybody is better than us”, or “we have been an underdog in every game we play!”

There’s a difference. As you well know, all forms of this board for years and years have been short on data.

44cuse

 

[SWC75]

Sometimes people argue with each other when their points aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think anyone on the board doesn't think the program has slipped a peg or two in recent years. But to say that 20 wins in the ACC with the 9th best OOC schedule would be comparable to 23-24 wins in other years should not be controversial. We want to get back to the 30 win seasons, which Virginia, Duke and UNC are proving can still be had in the ACC. You just have to have one of the best teams in the country, which we used to have, (at least some of the time) and haven't had for a while.

 

[Cuseball]

2008-09?

Maryland had the same schedule we did this year and went 23-11. They've leapfrogged our program.

Minnesota had 22 wins with a much more difficult schedule than ours, relatively speaking.

It's not about us historically -- it's about the rest of the country, too, and where we fall in the landscape.

The program is slipping.

agree we are slipping but being surpassed by Maryland and Minnesota???? Maryland has gone to the Sweet Sixteen once in the last 16 years. I don't think Minny has at all. It would be wise to not confuse a downward trend in an historically top 10 program with a top 20 program and a top 50 program (Minny). In another message you include UCF and Cal Irvine which both further dilute your message.

 

[Millhouse]

Maybe I'm apt to a bit of hyperbole, but these numbers mean nothing to me because I see what I see on the court and I see our players compared to others.

I watched the entire Oregon-UC Irvine game, and I also watched the UCF-Duke game.

UCF would beat us 8 out of 10 times. UC Irvine would be 5 out of 10, maybe 6-7. Wofford is in this category, too.

I realize these are blips on the radar, but next year there will be other blips on the radar that are better than us, too. Wichita State, Nevada, SMU, Northwestern.

Just tired of being consistently mediocre. This program shouldn't be struggling to get an 8 seed.

i don't know why you're reacting so strongly to a post about our schedule being hard.

UCF has a worse SRS than us (we're 38th, they're 41st). UC Irvine is 98th. Wofford (37th) is ranked one spot ahead of us.

for the millionth time we're not as good as we used to be. but consistency matters and sweet 16s and final 4s matter

our big east era winning percentage applied to the 34 games we played this year is a 24-10 record (EDIT Sorry 25-9). We were 20-14. Some of that is schedule, some of that is Howard's absence, and another part of that is that we're a little worse.

But we're not that much worse. We've had stretches like this before

 

[SUFan44]

i don't know why you're reacting so strongly to a post about our schedule being hard.

UCF has a worse SRS than us (we're 38th, they're 41st). UC Irvine is 98th. Wofford (37th) is ranked one spot ahead of us.

for the millionth time we're not as good as we used to be. but consistency matters and sweet 16s and final 4s matter

our big east winning percentage applied to the 34 games we played this year is a 24-10 record. We were 20-14. Some of that is schedule, some of that is Howard's absence, and another part of that is that we're a little worse.

But we're not that much worse. We've had stretches like this before

My point is we've had strong schedules before -- and even stronger schedules, relative to the rest of the country. And we've won at higher levels. Much higher levels.

You're arguments are insinuating we are fine as a program. That we've had these stretches before and all is well.

This stretch isn't the same, in my opinion. We are teetering as a program.

We lose three starters and our top scorer from last year, and we don't have a Top 25 recruiting class coming in. Nor do we have a player good enough to make McDonald's All-American. Not the end all, be all, but certainly a barometer.

Can next year surprise? Sure. But it's more likely that we will drop some -- from what was the highwater mark of the past 5 years. An 8 seed.

 

[Millhouse]

My point is we've had strong schedules before -- and even stronger schedules, relative to the rest of the country. And we've won at higher levels. Much higher levels.

You're arguments are insinuating we are fine as a program. That we've had these stretches before and all is well.

This stretch isn't the same, in my opinion. We are teetering as a program.

We lose three starters and our top scorer from last year, and we don't have a Top 25 recruiting class coming in. Nor do we have a player good enough to make McDonald's All-American. Not the end all, be all, but certainly a barometer.

Can next year surprise? Sure. But it's more likely that we will drop some -- from what was the highwater mark of the past 5 years. An 8 seed.

teetering come on

 

[OttoinGrotto]

UCF would beat us 8 out of 10 times. UC Irvine would be 5 out of 10, maybe 6-7. Wofford is in this category, too.

You've invented hypothetical results and are using them as real evidence.

 

[manleyzoo]

For better or worse, pointing to a difficult strength of schedule is just another excuse for not being very good. Back in the day when we never left the friendly confines of the Dome until January, Boeheim used to say that if you're good you're good no matter who you play. Now he says you have to play people. One is a rationale for a good record beating up on cupcakes, the other is an excuse for a mediocre record losing to teams above you. I think he was right the first time...if you're good, then you're good. Did we become a better team this year losing to every team ahead of us in the standings or would we have been better with an easier schedule? The assumption that a difficult schedule makes you better isn't always true. Sometimes it makes you worse.

 

[Millhouse]

For better or worse, pointing to a difficult strength of schedule is just another excuse for not being very good. Back in the day when we never left the friendly confines of the Dome until January, Boeheim used to say that if you're good you're good no matter who you play. Now he says you have to play people. One is a rationale for a good record beating up on cupcakes, the other is an excuse for a mediocre record losing to teams above you. I think he was right the first time...if you're good, then you're good. Did we become a better team this year losing to every team ahead of us in the standings or would we have been better with an easier schedule? The assumption that a difficult schedule makes you better isn't always true. Sometimes it makes you worse.

we beat duke on the road where they've lost 11 times in 149 games. that doesn't count because we hit a long shot in the first half, i know

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Meh I'm not sure I am buying there wasn't one attractive OOC opponent at the Dome. ODU, OSU, Oregon, UB were tournament teams I guess but again none were attractive Dome events and the 2 ex Big East rivals both sucked ass this year.

But the ACC was good UVA, UNC, and Duke could all prove this true over the course of this weekend.

 

[Millhouse]

Sometimes people argue with each other when their points aren't mutually exclusive. I don't think anyone on the board doesn't think the program has slipped a peg or two in recent years. But to say that 20 wins in the ACC with the 9th best OOC schedule would be comparable to 23-24 wins in other years should not be controversial. We want to get back to the 30 win seasons, which Virginia, Duke and UNC are proving can still be had in the ACC. You just have to have one of the best teams in the country, which we used to have, (at least some of the time) and haven't had for a while.

this was a pretty forgettable year (which says something about the program) but other comparable years fade from our memory so in the moment this seems unusually bad. it's not that unusual.

 

[manleyzoo]

we beat duke on the road where they've lost 11 times in 149 games. that doesn't count because we hit a long shot in the first half, i know

It does count obv. But we also lost to them and every other team ahead of us. That makes us not very good. You gotta beat some ppl somewhere along the line that are better than you. Otherwise you're making excuses.

 

[Millhouse]

It does count obv. But we also lost to them and every other team ahead of us. That makes us not very good. You gotta beat some ppl somewhere along the line that are better than you. Otherwise you're making excuses.

the teams that beat us finished ahead of us partly because they beat us

the teams that lost to us finished behind us partly because we beat them

boeheim has never beaten a team that's ended up undefeated and that dinosaur never will

 

[manleyzoo]

the teams that beat us finished ahead of us partly because they beat us

the teams that lost to us finished behind us partly because we beat them

boeheim has never beaten a team that's ended up undefeated and that dinosaur never will

That makes us what we are, a mediocre, middle of the pack, not very good team, just like we've been the last five years. Schedule schmedule if you're good then you're good and we weren't and haven't been.

 

[orangenauburn]

Listen

No one is happy with past few regular seasons ... Let's call them the Frank years.

They also coincide with the sanctions.

It's no surprise the results are what they are.

Let's see what happens over the next three.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Maybe I'm apt to a bit of hyperbole, but these numbers mean nothing to me because I see what I see on the court and I see our players compared to others.

I watched the entire Oregon-UC Irvine game, and I also watched the UCF-Duke game.

UCF would beat us 8 out of 10 times. UC Irvine would be 5 out of 10, maybe 6-7. Wofford is in this category, too.

I realize these are blips on the radar, but next year there will be other blips on the radar that are better than us, too. Wichita State, Nevada, SMU, Northwestern.

Just tired of being consistently mediocre. This program shouldn't be struggling to get an 8 seed.

You’re being extremely hyperbolic. Just looking at Kenpom tells me that Syracuse and UCF are extremely evenly matched.

We would beat UC Irvine 7 out of 10 times.

We would be favored against UW too and I think Hopkins is great.

Have you done any research here? I know Millhouse has...

 

[SBU72]

This can’t be. We played BC and Pitt eveybgane according to some

Cuse!

No, only the wins. If SU lost 13 times to BC and Pitt in one year let alone this year JB should be fired,

 

[Millhouse]

No, only the wins. If SU lost 13 times to BC and Pitt in one year let alone this year JB should be fired,

they say it's hard to be a team threeirteen times in a season