Those Who Think Recruiting is Marrone's Saving Grace

[OrangeinBoston]

It's the end of September and SU has 9 commits. The top rated players that SU is after are all looking for a better deal (Ogundeko is eyeing FL & ND, Smith is hoping for Oregon). So, why is this his saving grace?

 

[orangenirvana]

I don't really think it can be denied that the level of talent as a whole has been upgraded pretty significantly since 2009. Marrone and Co. are very good talent evaluators, imo.

Except maybe at Quarterback.

 

[dollarbill44]

It's the end of September and SU has 9 commits. The top rated players that SU is after are all looking for a better deal (Ogundeko is eyeing FL & ND, Smith is hoping for Oregon). So, why is this his saving grace?

Why don't you wait until the class is inked before condemning him?

Edit: Sub out "question" for "condemn". Condemn is too a strong word for what you posted.

 

[SaintTristan]

It's the end of September and SU has 9 commits. The top rated players that SU is after are all looking for a better deal (Ogundeko is eyeing FL & ND, Smith is hoping for Oregon). So, why is this his saving grace?

want the honest answer? Because by every measurable/quantitative metric dougie has failed. So the apologists need something to cling to that cant be easily measured. claiming that Dougie is this great talent evaluator and that he finds diamonds in the rough etc is the perfect metric because its not easily disputed.

Its called desperation.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

How many should he have?

We've only got room for maybe 17 kids in this class.

Maybe we get Ogundeko and Smith. Maybe not.

You can always get "B" listers.

 

[Rocco]

I don't really think it can be denied that the level of talent as a whole has been upgraded pretty significantly since 2009. Marrone and Co. are very good talent evaluators, imo.

Except maybe at Quarterback.

I would also hold judgement on that until Allen and Wilson get here. The only QB's Marrone has landed are Kinder, who was a NYC kid in a short notice and Hunt, who could very well have a shot when he participates in a full spring and fall canp.

Allen could be the real deal, and Wilson isn't one to scoff at either.

Marrone's best classes were the past 2, especially last year. Most havent had a chance to show their worth yet due to injury or redshirt. Takes ridiculously talented players to come in and have a major role on a BCS D1 team. Broyld has showed signs, Thompson was going to play until he went down, Curtis could be starting at RT if he didnt have to hang it up, Reddish has NFL talent as does Hickey.

Recruiting has improved, but hasnt been tested yet. They need to more time to mature and catch up. We arent Florida, Texas or USC who will get NFL talent at every position every year. We will get the others who could be very good, but need more time to develop.

 

[Rocco]

want the honest answer? Because by every measurable/quantitative metric dougie has failed. So the apologists need something to cling to that cant be easily measured. claiming that Dougie is this great talent evaluator and that he finds diamonds in the rough etc is the perfect metric because its not easily disputed.

Its called desperation.

Elaborate versus just throwing out senseless claims. Thanks.

 

[im4cuse]

I would also hold judgement on that until Allen and Wilson get here. The only QB's Marrone has landed are Kinder, who was a NYC kid in a short notice and Hunt, who could very well have a shot when he participates in a full spring and fall canp.

Allen could be the real deal, and Wilson isn't one to scoff at either.

Marrone's best classes were the past 2, especially last year. Most havent had a chance to show their worth yet due to injury or redshirt. Takes ridiculously talented players to come in and have a major role on a BCS D1 team. Broyld has showed signs, Thompson was going to play until he went down, Curtis could be starting at RT if he didnt have to hang it up, Reddish has NFL talent as does Hickey.

Recruiting has improved, but hasnt been tested yet. They need to more time to mature and catch up. We arent Florida, Texas or USC who will get NFL talent at every position every year. We will get the others who could be very good, but need more time to develop.

Must find a MLB, asap. This has been the biggest recruiting miss so far, IMO.

 

[Whitey23]

I would also hold judgement on that until Allen and Wilson get here. The only QB's Marrone has landed are Kinder, who was a NYC kid in a short notice and Hunt, who could very well have a shot when he participates in a full spring and fall camp.

Don't forget that winner, Jonny Miller( see what i did there?).

 

[Rocco]

Don't forget that winner, Jonny Miller( see what i did there?).

Ahh forgot about him, if he hadn't lost his mind he could still be here, but an injury may have curbed his career anyways.

 

[bothsocksup]

I was listening to College Sports on Sirius, they had a longtime coach (forgot who it was, famous dude). Anyhow, he was discussing certain aspects of winning programs such as Alabama.
The first thing he discussed as the mark of a talented/successful team is the play of special teams. Why? Because specials usually involve your 2's and 3's. When your 2's and 3's are better than the other teams 2's and 3's (quality depth) it gives you an incredible advantage. You haev highly skilled players covering kicks, blocking kicks, tackling, so on and so forth, without using starters.
The second thing he discussed was the ability to redshirt young players. With the exception of certain skilled positions, experience is a MUST for dominant teams. Young players need time to learn the nuances of their positions. Some kids are playing a certain position ie. Dyshawn Davis at OLB for the first time at a D1 level. Its a transition that takes time. Its also an advantage and confidence builder if these young players gain a year or two under the schools SandC program.
When looking at teams who have an advantage against one another, as a coach, he would always look at the amount of Sr.'s and Jr.'s on a ballclub. The older the team, and more experienced, the better chance they have at winning.

Looking at some of his key aspects of good football teams, its easy to see where Marrone struggles. He's lining up less talented depth in special teams, and doesnt have the ability to redshirt the majority of his best young athletes. Tell me even kids like Wayne Morgan wouldn't benefit from a redshirt year. I think when we look at the young kids we are depending on to be successful, its easy to see why our game outcomes are very unpredictable.

 

[kingottoiii]

I don't really think it can be denied that the level of talent as a whole has been upgraded pretty significantly since 2009. Marrone and Co. are very good talent evaluators, imo.

Except maybe at Quarterback.

Why can it not be denied? What have we seen thus far from the Marrone's recruits? I think top to bottom, recruiting is much better. There is more quality depth. But at the top it is a lot worse. Where is Marrone's Nassib, DC3, Ant Bailey, Sales, Mike Williams, Chan Jones, Derrell Smith, Hogue, Mike Holmes? GRob's recruits made impacts as Frosh and Sophs. Marrone's kids have done very little as underclassmen.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

Must find a MLB, asap. This has been the biggest recruiting miss so far, IMO.

EJ Carter.
Malcolm Cater.
Myles Davis.

Finding them isn't the problem. Keeping them enrolled and healthy is.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Why can it not be denied? What have we seen thus far from the Marrone's recruits? I think top to bottom, recruiting is much better. There is more quality depth. But at the top it is a lot worse. Where is Marrone's Nassib, DC3, Ant Bailey, Sales, Mike Williams, Chan Jones, Derrell Smith, Hogue, Mike Holmes? GRob's recruits made impacts as Frosh and Sophs. Marrone's kids have done very little as underclassmen.

GRob's recruits made impacts as frosh and sophs? moreso than Marrone's? I don't recall that at all.

 

[RICuse44]

Why can it not be denied? What have we seen thus far from the Marrone's recruits? I think top to bottom, recruiting is much better. There is more quality depth. But at the top it is a lot worse. Where is Marrone's Nassib, DC3, Ant Bailey, Sales, Mike Williams, Chan Jones, Derrell Smith, Hogue, Mike Holmes? GRob's recruits made impacts as Frosh and Sophs. Marrone's kids have done very little as underclassmen.

To that I would say Reddish has made an impact on D. Also Bromley and Crume- notice how Minny was not able to just ram it down our throats at the end of the game despite having a lead like the BCs and UCONNs used to do (although in fairness I'm not convinced how much they tried). Spruill actually played a pretty good game against Minny- still just a junior but should have been redshirted. Dyshawn made a bigger impact IMO as a freshman and definitely should have redshirted. All Marrone recruits. For the O, West has played really well at times and terrible at others with drops. Hickey has been really solid. Broyld may be the big playmaker we lack but really could have used a redshirt this year. So there are Marrone recruits, almost all of the above underclassman who are making impacts this year. Thankfully the Ford's, McFarlane's, Parris', Emerich's, Palmer's, and Knapp's of this world are finally able to redshirt. Was not the luxury prev. Talent will be upgraded immensely when the Broyld's, Morgan's, and Whigham's can redshirt as well. GRobs recruits made impacts because there was no one else. We will never be pulling in 4 or 5 star recruits on a regular basis but could get to the point of a few 4s, mostly 3s, and some 2s with potential that come from under developed football areas.

 

[rrlbees]

I would also hold judgement on that until Allen and Wilson get here. The only QB's Marrone has landed are Kinder, who was a NYC kid in a short notice and Hunt, who could very well have a shot when he participates in a full spring and fall canp.

Allen could be the real deal, and Wilson isn't one to scoff at either.

Marrone's best classes were the past 2, especially last year. Most havent had a chance to show their worth yet due to injury or redshirt. Takes ridiculously talented players to come in and have a major role on a BCS D1 team. Broyld has showed signs, Thompson was going to play until he went down, Curtis could be starting at RT if he didnt have to hang it up, Reddish has NFL talent as does Hickey.

Recruiting has improved, but hasnt been tested yet. They need to more time to mature and catch up. We arent Florida, Texas or USC who will get NFL talent at every position every year. We will get the others who could be very good, but need more time to develop.

For completeness.

Loeb
Miller
Kinder
Hunt
Broyld
Paulus

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[kingottoiii]

To that I would say Reddish has made an impact on D. Also Bromley and Crume- notice how Minny was not able to just ram it down our throats at the end of the game despite having a lead like the BCs and UCONNs used to do (although in fairness I'm not convinced how much they tried). Spruill actually played a pretty good game against Minny- still just a junior but should have been redshirted. Dyshawn made a bigger impact IMO as a freshman and definitely should have redshirted. All Marrone recruits. For the O, West has played really well at times and terrible at others with drops. Hickey has been really solid. Broyld may be the big playmaker we lack but really could have used a redshirt this year. So there are Marrone recruits, almost all of the above underclassman who are making impacts this year. Thankfully the Ford's, McFarlane's, Parris', Emerich's, Palmer's, and Knapp's of this world are finally able to redshirt. Was not the luxury prev. Talent will be upgraded immensely when the Broyld's, Morgan's, and Whigham's can redshirt as well. GRobs recruits made impacts because there was no one else. We will never be pulling in 4 or 5 star recruits on a regular basis but could get to the point of a few 4s, mostly 3s, and some 2s with potential that come from under developed football areas.

My god people. Since when is Reddish Revis? I like the kid but he has played 3 games and hasn't had much of an impact. On top of that he is in a 3 man rotation. Crume is barely getting PT. That is an impact? Spruill is solid but nowhere near as good as Smith or Hogue. Dyshawn is still living off of one play against RU. I will give you Broyld. Just because we have Marrone recruits on the field doesn't mean they are making plays. Which is one reason why we are losing. A lack of play makers and All BE type talents. GRob brought in a handful of playmakers and a bunch of crap. That isn't good either.

 

[DPCuse]

So it's Marrone's 4th season. Some of his first recruits are finally showing up as upperclassmen on the field. And admittedly, it wasn't exactly easy for Doug to recruit the first couple years given the state of the program. So with that being said, this current class was probably his first real class with a track record of coaching under his belt. Give these kids time to get in to the system and develop. People, we were at the bottom of the ladder at the D1 level. This was always going to take time to rebuild the RIGHT way. Building relationships with HS coaches. Getting in to recruiting hotbeds. Establishing a winning environment. Upgrade the facilities with the new ACC money. Slow but steady progress is being made. But it is long term. Have some patience. We'd all love a top 25 team now but realistically, I'd say we are still a couple years away given all these changes.

 

[OrangePA]

want the honest answer? Because by every measurable/quantitative metric dougie has failed. So the apologists need something to cling to that cant be easily measured. claiming that Dougie is this great talent evaluator and that he finds diamonds in the rough etc is the perfect metric because its not easily disputed.

Its called desperation.

The joy that you obviously feel in posting such comments is pretty disconcerting.

 

[PhatOrange]

Why can it not be denied? What have we seen thus far from the Marrone's recruits? I think top to bottom, recruiting is much better. There is more quality depth. But at the top it is a lot worse. Where is Marrone's Nassib, DC3, Ant Bailey, Sales, Mike Williams, Chan Jones, Derrell Smith, Hogue, Mike Holmes? GRob's recruits made impacts as Frosh and Sophs. Marrone's kids have done very little as underclassmen.

Yeah because all those kids were great as freshman and sophomores right?

 

[JeremyCuse]

My god people. Since when is Reddish Revis? I like the kid but he has played 3 games and hasn't had much of an impact. On top of that he is in a 3 man rotation. Crume is barely getting PT. That is an impact? Spruill is solid but nowhere near as good as Smith or Hogue. Dyshawn is still living off of one play against RU. I will give you Broyld. Just because we have Marrone recruits on the field doesn't mean they are making plays. Which is one reason why we are losing. A lack of play makers and All BE type talents. GRob brought in a handful of playmakers and a bunch of crap. That isn't good either.

The LB situation is in pretty Dire straits at this point. Davis injury really set that position back and combine that with all three decommits last year being LB's the situation desperatley needs an influx of talent. No idea what Vigille's status is and the LB from Georgia appears to have fallen completely off the map along with Vaughn. We really should look at bringing in a JUCO MLB or get Macfarlane over to LB asap so he can be ready to go for next year.

 

[kingottoiii]

Yeah because all those kids were great as freshman and sophomores right?

Take a look at what those guys did as underclassmen (not talking upperclass). Then look at what we have seen so far from Marrone's guys. So compare apples to apples. GRob recruits in the four years he was there as Frosh and Sophs vs Marrone recruits his four years as Frosh and Sophs. You will see a huge difference. Heck Hogue had a better career at RB than our current guys.

 

[Moontan]

No idea what Vigille's status is and the LB from Georgia appears to have fallen completely off the map along with Vaughn.

Cam Lynch appears to only be used in passing situations and special teams. It seems like he had more playing time last year.

 

[tep624]

We're probably 2 or 3 recruits behind where we should be comparative to our peers who are taking full classes this year (most are in the 15-18 range, which is in the 60-70% range of completion for a full class of 25). We're at the 50% completion rate, and 2 more recruits would put us above 60%.

 

[Rocco]

For completeness.

Loeb - committed to GRob, stayed on
Miller - blah
Kinder - blah
Hunt - jury's still out
Broyld - ummm, he isn't a QB currently, don't think he ever will be. Was a QB in hs
Paulus - wasn't too bad, and was a band aid

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