Thoughts and musings on our offense

[wfschrec]

i posted the numbers somewhere else but i'll repost here

Conference Play PPG YPG
2013 12.9 332.7
2012 30.4 460.4
2011 20.9 353.1
2010 16.6 274.1
2009 17.3 330.4

Our SOS:

2013 33rd
2012 55th
2011 48th
2010 85th
2009 40th

This is the toughest schedule we have played in a stretch ... I'm sure I don't need to draw any correlations here. Last year we played 7 bowl eligible teams ... this year we play 8 including two top 10 squads ... and lets not even touch on our lovely BE schedules in the previous seasons. We have made a serious step up in competition from top to bottom ... it isn't just about FSU or Clemson.

 

[Millhouse]

Our SOS:

2013 33rd
2012 55th
2011 48th
2010 85th
2009 40th

This is the toughest schedule we have played in a stretch ... I'm sure I don't need to draw any correlations here. Last year we played 7 bowl eligible teams ... this year we play 8 including two top 10 squads ... and lets not even touch on our lovely BE schedules in the previous seasons. We have made a serious step up in competition from top to bottom ... it isn't just about FSU or Clemson.

i suspect the difference between SOS is FSU and Clemson

if anything the rest of the schedule might be worse. i don't know that, just a guess.

and we're 5 yards better against ACC teams not named FSU and Clemson

 

[upperdeck]

I still think the QB play this year has caused more issues than anything else we can or cant do. You put Manzel/winston/boyd/marriota on this team and you tell me we dont score 14-20 pts more per game easily? And I think you could go down the college list pretty far and still add 10-14 pts per game.

we all focus on the bad throws and bad WR play. We forget how many plays Nassib changed at the line the last 2-3 yrs. I haven't seen one Reporter as the question on how often we do that now?

We saw Estimie just start to make plays, if one of the FR WR coming in can make that same impact with speed the offense gets better, if you get better QB play as well it starts to be effective.

Teams are still not really worrying about our deep threats and still we have run on almost all of them. If the safety has to think a bit the running game gets better as well.

 

[Millhouse]

I still think the QB play this year has caused more issues than anything else we can or cant do. You put Manzel/winston/boyd/marriota on this team and you tell me we dont score 14-20 pts more per game easily? And I think you could go down the college list pretty far and still add 10-14 pts per game.

we all focus on the bad throws and bad WR play. We forget how many plays Nassib changed at the line the last 2-3 yrs. I haven't seen one Reporter as the question on how often we do that now?

We saw Estimie just start to make plays, if one of the FR WR coming in can make that same impact with speed the offense gets better, if you get better QB play as well it starts to be effective.

Teams are still not really worrying about our deep threats and still we have run on almost all of them. If the safety has to think a bit the running game gets better as well.

14 more points in conference play would put us at 66th in the country.

if they traded for manziel and ended up only 66th in the country in conference play, SU fans would stay warm walking up the hill

manziel probably helps us more than that but my point is that the offense is so bad, that two more touchdowns a game (more than double) in ACC play only gets you to ho hum

 

[TheCusian]

At the beginning of the season most here thought we'd be between 8-4 and 5-7 - with most saying either 6-6 or 7-5. We're basically a few inches from 8-4 (Penn St and Pitt).

We have a 1st year QB, HC in a new conference. We have an OC that has one year of non-BCS OC experience. We don't have any great receivers. Our best receiver is a true freshman in Estime (a McDonald recruit, to the poster above). We lost an NFL 1st rounder off of our line and a record breaking QB that is in the NFL as well.

Also, we have arguably the best recruiting class in the past 10 years coming in - with the best players being McDonalds guys. I think we'll get a few that will surprise yet and they will be from FL.

So in review: we are who we thought we were. Growing pains are unfortunate for those of us that have been waiting through a lot of awful years of offense (as CIL points out), but there are enough signs of life that there is real hope at being much improved next season. And our D still looks great against peer programs (this season). That should continue next season as well.

 

[TheCusian]

14 more points in conference play would put us at 66th in the country.

if they traded for manziel and ended up only 66th in the country in conference play, SU fans would stay warm walking up the hill

manziel probably helps us more than that but my point is that the offense is so bad, that two more touchdowns a game (more than double) in ACC play only gets you to ho hum

Not with our defense. We would have beat Pitt, Penn St for starters - putting us in a bowl game and probably 3rd place in our division behind established, senior laden Clemson and powerhouse FSU. And we'd be favored at home vs BC.

I don't think there would be any pitchforks...

 

[Millhouse]

Not with our defense. We would have beat Pitt, Penn St for starters - putting us in a bowl game and probably 3rd place in our division behind established, senior laden Clemson and powerhouse FSU. And we'd be favored at home vs BC.

I don't think there would be any pitchforks...

if Johnny Football miraculous transferred here without sitting a year and we were middle of the pack on offense and 3rd in our division, there would be pitchforks and torches. pitchtorches? torchforks? torchforks is better. i want one

 

[jr4750]

At the beginning of the season most here thought we'd be between 8-4 and 5-7 - with most saying either 6-6 or 7-5. We're basically a few inches from 8-4 (Penn St and Pitt).

We have a 1st year QB, HC in a new conference. We have an OC that has one year of non-BCS OC experience. We don't have any great receivers. Our best receiver is a true freshman in Estime (a McDonald recruit, to the poster above). We lost an NFL 1st rounder off of our line and a record breaking QB that is in the NFL as well.

Also, we have arguably the best recruiting class in the past 10 years coming in - with the best players being McDonalds guys. I think we'll get a few that will surprise yet and they will be from FL.

So in review: we are who we thought we were. Growing pains are unfortunate for those of us that have been waiting through a lot of awful years of offense (as CIL points out), but there are enough signs of life that there is real hope at being much improved next season. And our D still looks great against peer programs (this season). That should continue next season as well.

Nice post... I'm tired of the negativity. Its so easy to get that way, as it has been a real struggle at times over the last many years to stay with the team and the ugliness that has preceded it. Yet, if we win Saturday, which there is no reason we can't, we are pretty much right where we thought we'd be. As you said 6-6 and a few inches away from 8-4.

 

[TheCusian]

if Johnny Football miraculous transferred here without sitting a year and we were middle of the pack on offense and 3rd in our division, there would be pitchforks and torches. pitchtorches? torchforks? torchforks is better. i want one

Wouldn't all the scrutiny go to the lack of playmakers at WR really quickly. He has some nice NFL weapons on that A&M team. Gather your torchforks and head for the WR meeting room!

 

[wfschrec]

i suspect the difference between SOS is FSU and Clemson

if anything the rest of the schedule might be worse. i don't know that, just a guess.

and we're 5 yards better against ACC teams not named FSU and Clemson

You can take Clemson out of that equation ... since LVille last year based on ranking pretty much cancels them out. Second of all if you haven't figured out how truly bad the BE was then you obviously aren't paying attention to what Houston & UCF are doing ... our conference schedule is much tougher ... sorry but you are wrong on this one ... we didn't take a 56-0 beating last year ... nor did any team on our schedule have the ability to beat us like that. Our worst loss was 13 points last year ... we have blown that out of the water several times this season. UCF and UH are beating our old conference foes with alarming ease ... I am not even sure how you can't see this.

 

[rrlbees]

At the beginning of the season most here thought we'd be between 8-4 and 5-7 - with most saying either 6-6 or 7-5. We're basically a few inches from 8-4 (Penn St and Pitt). We have a 1st year QB, HC in a new conference. We have an OC that has one year of non-BCS OC experience. We don't have any great receivers. Our best receiver is a true freshman in Estime (a McDonald recruit, to the poster above). We lost an NFL 1st rounder off of our line and a record breaking QB that is in the NFL as well. Also, we have arguably the best recruiting class in the past 10 years coming in - with the best players being McDonalds guys. I think we'll get a few that will surprise yet and they will be from FL. So in review: we are who we thought we were. Growing pains are unfortunate for those of us that have been waiting through a lot of awful years of offense (as CIL points out), but there are enough signs of life that there is real hope at being much improved next season. And our D still looks great against peer programs (this season). That should continue next season as well.

I predicted 7-5 so hopefully we'll be close to that if 6-6. But what does get frustrating is the excuses about lack of experience with coaches and lack of talent.

Why hire a 1st time HC then? Why hire a staff that is green in many ways? Why couldn't we more easily replace the offensive skill talent we lost? The answers are that Marrone failed as a recruiter on that side of the ball and SU went on the cheap with coaching salaries.

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[Millhouse]

You can take Clemson out of that equation ... since LVille last year based on ranking pretty much cancels them out. Second of all if you haven't figured out how truly bad the BE was then you obviously aren't paying attention to what Houston & UCF are doing ... our conference schedule is much tougher ... sorry but you are wrong on this one ... we didn't take a 56-0 beating last year ... nor did any team on our schedule have the ability to beat us like that. Our worst loss was 13 points last year ... we have blown that out of the water several times this season. UCF and UH are beating our old conference foes with alarming ease ... I am not even sure how you can't see this.

i like that you're offering up us not getting beat 56-0 last year as evidence that this year's schedule is tougher

newsflash, SU was better last year

the difference between last year SOS and this year might be that Florida St is completely amazing

which doesn't change that the offense stinks against teams that aren't florida state

 

[rrlbees]

Fwiw, last year as a conference, the Big East was rated ahead of the ACC.

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[RF2044]

I predicted 7-5 so hopefully we'll be close to that if 6-6. But what does get frustrating is the excuses about lack of experience with coaches and lack of talent.

Why hire a 1st time HC then? Why hire a staff that is green in many ways? Why couldn't we more easily replace the offensive skill talent we lost? The answers are that Marrone failed as a recruiter on that side of the ball and SU went on the cheap with coaching salaries.

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Excuses? Did we lose a lot of key players or not from last year's team? Was there going to be a transition from one group of coaches to a bunch of new, somewhat unproven coaches?

I agree 100% with the highlighted part of your post above. I really thought we needed to bring in a proven guy after Marrone's departure. The case for hiring Shafer was ostensibly to keep continuity, but then 50% of the coaching staff left anyway, so...

As for why we couldn't adequately replace the offensive talent, you hit the nail on the head. But that doesn't change the fact that there is a distinct lack of offensive talent on this year's team. That isn't an excuse, that is a statement of fact.

 

[OrangePA]

Good discussion.

I agree that last year was an anomoly.

And, I agree that Coach McDonald should get the benefit of the doubt because we do lack talent and because he can recruit.

He will bring talent to the Dome and that will solve many issues.

 

[wfschrec]

Fwiw, last year as a conference, the Big East was rated ahead of the ACC.

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Yeah and where are they now? ... This is about this year. The ACC this season would murder the BE last season ... you can't even debate this.

 

[TheCusian]

I predicted 7-5 so hopefully we'll be close to that if 6-6. But what does get frustrating is the excuses about lack of experience with coaches and lack of talent.

Why hire a 1st time HC then? Why hire a staff that is green in many ways? Why couldn't we more easily replace the offensive skill talent we lost? The answers are that Marrone failed as a recruiter on that side of the ball and SU went on the cheap with coaching salaries.

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I'm don't think it's about Shafer. I think he's the right guy - especially when you look at who was available and how late it was in the game. I think McDonald was the best we could get for recruiting and familiarity with the staff Shafer was assembling. Marrone's philosophy seemed to involve good route runners - at the expense of speed. McDonald seems to favor the opposite.

This was and always was a transition year. Shafer said we'd surprise some people in the ACC. I think Maryland, Wake, and NC State would all agree with that. We're heading in the right direction overall.

 

[wfschrec]

i like that you're offering up us not getting beat 56-0 last year as evidence that this year's schedule is tougher

newsflash, SU was better last year

the difference between last year SOS and this year might be that Florida St is completely amazing

which doesn't change that the offense stinks against teams that aren't florida state

Really SU was better? No kidding ... and our schedule wasn't as tough as it is this year ... yes Millhouse those two things have led to a significant difference in our PF/PA for the season ... pretty simple isn't it? Our SOS differential is not just FSU ... sorry buy you just don't get it ... the ACC has 8 bowl eligible teams ... 9 if Cuse wins ... more than the number of teams in the BE last season ... sorry but overall SOS is much stronger this year.

 

[rrlbees]

Yeah and where are they now? ... This is about this year. The ACC this season would murder the BE last season ... you can't even debate this.

Toss out FSU and I'd put last years BE up against this years ACC.

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[rrlbees]

I'm don't think it's about Shafer. I think he's the right guy - especially when you look at who was available and how late it was in the game. I think McDonald was the best we could get for recruiting and familiarity with the staff Shafer was assembling. Marrone's philosophy seemed to involve good route runners - at the expense of speed. McDonald seems to favor the opposite. This was and always was a transition year. Shafer said we'd surprise some people in the ACC. I think Maryland, Wake, and NC State would all agree with that. We're heading in the right direction overall.

I didn't have a huge problem with hiring Shafer. But if you do that you better hire some real proven guys on the offensive side.

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[Millhouse]

Really SU was better? No kidding ... and our schedule wasn't as tough as it is this year ... yes Millhouse those two things have led to a significant difference in our PF/PA for the season ... pretty simple isn't it? Our SOS differential is not just FSU ... sorry buy you just don't get it ... the ACC has 8 bowl eligible teams ... 9 if Cuse wins ... more than the number of teams in the BE last season ... sorry but overall SOS is much stronger this year.

if you play the #2 team ...in the country on the road... and your ...SOS doesn't improve a lot, your SOS... formula ...stinks...

 

[wfschrec]

Toss out FSU and I'd put last years BE up against this years ACC.

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Well first of all you can't toss anyone ... and this year's Clemson ... hell last year's Clemson would have ransacked the BE too ... and if you are going to sit here and tell me that USF, UConn, Temple and others would have made noise in the ACC then you are delusional .. pretty sure the ACC had a winning record against the BE last season ... was like 5-4 or something like that ... whatever some people just can't see things for what they are .. .we lost good talent and we are playing better teams .. if you can't look at our results and the what has happened to the leftovers in the AAC then I really don't know what to tell you.

 

[javadoc]

I didn't have a huge problem with hiring Shafer. But if you do that you better hire some real proven guys on the offensive side.

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You mean Shafer had better hire some real proven guys. Therein lies the rub.

 

[wfschrec]

if you play the #2 team ...in the country on the road... and your ...SOS doesn't improve a lot, your SOS... formula ...stinks...

First off not my SOS formula and second of all if you feel that one game allows you to hurdle 15 other teams then your sense of SOS stinks. If it were that simple then the top 26 slots would be ACC and SEC teams and no one else ... please apply some logic would you?

 

[Millhouse]

Well first of all you can't toss anyone ... and this year's Clemson ... hell last year's Clemson would have ransacked the BE too ... and if you are going to sit here and tell me that USF, UConn, Temple and others would have made noise in the ACC then you are delusional .. pretty sure the ACC had a winning record against the BE last season ... was like 5-4 or something like that ... whatever some people just can't see things for what they are .. .we lost good talent and we are playing better teams .. if you can't look at our results and the what has happened to the leftovers in the AAC then I really don't know what to tell you.

you move the goal posts so much.

pointing out that FSU is the big reason why the SOS is higher is not the same thing as saying that Big East teams would make noise in the ACC

you know why they wouldn't make noise in the ACC? FLORIDA STATE that's why

Florida State is why the schedule is tougher and florida state is why big east teams wouldn't make noise

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