Thoughts on why Donnie and Steve were hired

[kcsu]

I think that Doug realizes that this is the most critical year of his coaching tenure. I think he knows that if he has a melt down his job is in jeapordy but if he goes 500 or better he is in for a solid extension. Because of this he decided to hire two coaches that can make an emmediate impact on the coming season. Donnie and Steve may not have great recruiting credentials but it sure looks like both can coach and coach critical units this year. Our DB's and LB's are without a doubt two units that require significant help. Sure they have talent but that talent is very young. Guys like Steve and Donnie can and i believe will coach these kids and provide us with the best chance of success this coming year. If we win and as a result Doug gets an extension recruiting will do just fine. At first i wasnt on board with these guys but after digging into both of their backgrounds i think they are both solid hires in light of our situation. The key for this season is to win we dont have the luxury to hire recruiters we need coaches.

 

[kingottoiii]

QB coach was more important that either LB or DB. The O has further to go IMO. And if we can get a guy to coach up Nassib so he hits 10% of his deep passes we win a few more games. IMO OL and QB are the most important positions to have coaches. The rest should all be recruiters.

 

[SU2NASA]

First you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get the women.

 

[SoBristol]

Have to suspect that Shafer had a lot to do with the LB and DB coaches to assist on his side of the ball. Needed to sort it out (don't need two DL and two LB coaches, with Shafer coaching DBs himself).

I doubt Doug would see that sharp dichotomy between recruiting and coaching (KCSU's post). Sure, some coaches in the college ranks could bring existing connections and networks, but if coaches are good at what they do as position coaches, that word will get out to recruits.

I also doubt that Doug needs more motivation to win games than he has always had. He needs to win some November rivalry games; and he also needs to show success year over year in recruiting. Any AD would look at the blend: progress on the field; add life blood to the program (recruiting); run the program in the right way.

 

[OrangePA]

QB coach was more important that either LB or DB. The O has further to go IMO. And if we can get a guy to coach up Nassib so he hits 10% of his deep passes we win a few more games. IMO OL and QB are the most important positions to have coaches. The rest should all be recruiters.

Wow.

I must say, I find it utterly amazing that you and I see things about SU Football so differently.

The last thing the team needs is a QB coach.

Ryan Nassib is a great young man with very average FBS talent.

Hackett and Marrone have gotten out of him about as much as there is to be gotten.

Gosh, he set almost every SU season passing record last year with not much of a running game and with no WR home run threat.

I wish he were more accurate, as you have observed, but as Bill Walsh often said you just can't teach a guy to be accurate.

 

[Dmcnabbrules]

Wow.

I must say, I find utterly amazing that you and I see things about SU Football so differently.

The last thing the team needs is a QB coach.

Ryan Nassib is a great young man with very average FBS talent.

Hackett and Marrone have gotten out of him about as much as there is to be gotten.

Gosh, he set almost every SU season passing record last year with not much of a running game and with no WR home run threat.

I wish he were more accurate, as you have observed, but as Bill Walsh often said you just can't teach a guy to be accurate.

Can I hit the like button a hundred times. One of the articles OE posted last week was about PIF, Nassib was 5th in the BE and a few points from being third. The defense finished 8th. In most statistical categories the defense finished last in the league. Nassib and Hackett continue to get pounded by certain posters, while Shafer and the D get a pass. I don't get it. If Nassib had Sales and PTG last year the offense might have been very good.

 

[SoBristol]

Nassib has his issues (accuracy on deep passes, touch on some of the short ones, not a great threat to run), but he is better than "very average". Without him, we don't win 10 blanking games (or 5). Get him a slot back who can run routes, catch and get yards-after-the-catch, and he will be fine.
As for the coaches, it has been obvious that Marrone is sticking with the Marrone/Hackett combo as Hackett learns his trade; and that the replacements were going to be on the D-side. Have to wait at least for Spring practices to see whether the new guys are an upgrade and whether there is any answer for specials.

 

[orangepassion]

Nassib is (at least) an above-average Big East QB. He is definitely good enough to win with. Need to play to win on offense and not wait for the 4th quarter when the opposing defense is teeing up for the QB.

 

[kingottoiii]

Wow.

I must say, I find it utterly amazing that you and I see things about SU Football so differently.

The last thing the team needs is a QB coach.

Ryan Nassib is a great young man with very average FBS talent.

Hackett and Marrone have gotten out of him about as much as there is to be gotten.

Gosh, he set almost every SU season passing record last year with not much of a running game and with no WR home run threat.

I wish he were more accurate, as you have observed, but as Bill Walsh often said you just can't teach a guy to be accurate.

You totally twisted my point. IMO QB is the most important position on the field. Thus having a dedicated QB coach on the staff to guide the current QB and MORE IMPORTANTLY develop the next QB should be a priority for EVERY staff. I am one of the biggest Nassib fans here. But I do believe a guy like Kevin Rogers would have developed Nassib faster (greater production his Soph year) and been able to get him to be more accurate deep. So if you think coaching doesn't matter, then yes we disagree.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I agree with OPA here, Nassib has been coached fine, kid is pretty much maximizing his talent and we have see the good, bad, and ugly. YOur not going to get much more here. Why don't we wait for the next qb and see how he develops when he actually starts in 2 years, then we can judge the job the qb coach has done. I think this board gets carried away with position coaches as if Kevin Rogers will turn Nassib into a NFL first rounder. and like I said Nassib has been coached just fine IMO, but he was never going to be a world beater

 

[Alsacs]

I have absolutely no confidence in SU's offensive coaches. Our defense can and should be coached up to do well next year, but our offense plain and simple is going to suck unless the players have improved greatly. No changes have been made on that side of the ball and it was awful last year they only won 2 games for the team last year Toledo and WVU. I like the defensive coaching hires we made as the defense will have to win us games next year. I don't blame Nassib the OL gave him very little time, and the fact Marrone didn't make any changes on the offensive side of the ball is disappointing. However, Marrone knows his coaching butt is on the line so he is relying on his guys.

 

[rosconey]

marrone must be looking to pull another 2010 and have his defense win games-

or he figures the sales factor on offense will bring back pinstripe memories-

hey i can take a 8 win ugly year again-no problem

but if our 5 game streak grows to start the season

 

[OrangePA]

You totally twisted my point. IMO QB is the most important position on the field. Thus having a dedicated QB coach on the staff to guide the current QB and MORE IMPORTANTLY develop the next QB should be a priority for EVERY staff. I am one of the biggest Nassib fans here. But I do believe a guy like Kevin Rogers would have developed Nassib faster (greater production his Soph year) and been able to get him to be more accurate deep. So if you think coaching doesn't matter, then yes we disagree.

Three things.

First, I think Kevin Rogers is a fine QB coach - especially when he has Donovan McNabb. He is not as good a coach when he has a guy like Madei Williams or Kevin Mason. (Madei, after spending time with Rogers, was not ready to compete effectively in 1999.)

Second, Nassib has limited talent - Hackett and Marrone have taken this young - a guy with average talent - and have made him a pretty productive FBS QB. The fact is that Nassib is being coached by at least two offensive coaches - more and more coaching is probably not going to make all that much difference.

Third, while a coach can help improve mechanics, only so much can be done from a coaching perspective with respect that part of a QB's game. Nassib has a hitch that they have worked to eliminate, but it's still there and will always be there - especially when the pace of play increases. The fact is that accuracy is not something that can be coached - Bill Walsh said it time and again.

So, to the extent that you believe the first thing Marrone should do is hire a so-called dedicated QB coach, we do disagree.

 

[kingottoiii]

So, to the extent that you believe the first thing Marrone should do is hire a so-called dedicated QB coach, we do disagree.

He can absolutely improve his deep passes. He is so bad it is comical. One of the worst QBs I have ever seen at throwing it deep. He has enough talent to hit some deep passes from time to time. The fact that it was never corrected last year worries me about our staffs abilities at coaching QBs.

 

[OrangePA]

He can absolutely improve his deep passes. He is so bad it is comical. One of the worst QBs I have ever seen at throwing it deep. He has enough talent to hit some deep passes from time to time. The fact that it was never corrected last year worries me about our staffs abilities at coaching QBs.

So, after two or three years of pretty competitive high school ball, after four years of constant training at the college level, after two college seasons where Ryan took nearly every offensive snap, "he is so bad it's comical" and yet with one spring practice period, Kevin Rogers would make Ryan Nassib an accurate long passer?

What do you think he and the coaches spend time on during training periods? What do you think he works on with his WR teammates in the offseason?

What do you think Ryan has been doing all these years? Nothing?

It's another example of the misguided presumption that "coaching" can immediately and effectively change a player's performance or talent level.

Unfortunately, that just isn't the case.

 

[kingottoiii]

It's another example of the misguided presumption that "coaching" can immediately and effectively change a player's performance or talent level.

Unfortunately, that just isn't the case.

1. If coaching doesn't matter then Marrone should have ALL recruiters on his staff. So by your logic Marrone is a dummy. Good to know.

2. How can someone who has NEVER played the position or NEVER coached the position teach someone? If Adkins left would you be fine with Anselmo being OL coach? I sure as hell wouldn't.

 

[kcsu]

So, after two or three years of pretty competitive high school ball, after four years of constant training at the college level, after two college seasons where Ryan took nearly every offensive snap, "he is so bad it's comical" and yet with one spring practice period, Kevin Rogers would make Ryan Nassib an accurate long passer?

What do you think he and the coaches spend time on during training periods? What do you think he works on with his WR teammates in the offseason?

What do you think Ryan has been doing all these years? Nothing?

It's another example of the misguided presumption that "coaching" can immediately and effectively change a player's performance or talent level.

Unfortunately, that just isn't the case.

In this case i agree. Ryan is a thrower not a passer. He just doesnt have touch never has and never will. You can see it both the long ball and often times when he has no touch on his shorter throws. Very similiar to shooters in bball Gmac is a shooter DW although he can make shots is not. Ryan unfortunately is a thrower

 

[IthacaBarrel]

1. If coaching doesn't matter then Marrone should have ALL recruiters on his staff. So by your logic Marrone is a dummy. Good to know.

2. How can someone who has NEVER played the position or NEVER coached the position teach someone? If Adkins left would you be fine with Anselmo being OL coach? I sure as hell wouldn't.

I just think people are chasing rainbows when it comes to assistants and their abilities to coach up. I agree, I wish Marrone had a few more recruiters but I think the staff is fine for the most part.. Like I said yesterday, marrone thinks very very highly of Hackett and that is very apparent, it's his team and he is comfortable with that.

Accuracy can't be taught either, IMO. Look at McNabb he was wildly inconsistent throwing the ball

 

[Alsacs]

So, after two or three years of pretty competitive high school ball, after four years of constant training at the college level, after two college seasons where Ryan took nearly every offensive snap, "he is so bad it's comical" and yet with one spring practice period, Kevin Rogers would make Ryan Nassib an accurate long passer?

What do you think he and the coaches spend time on during training periods? What do you think he works on with his WR teammates in the offseason?

What do you think Ryan has been doing all these years? Nothing?

It's another example of the misguided presumption that "coaching" can immediately and effectively change a player's performance or talent level.

Unfortunately, that just isn't the case.

I guess Norm Chow did nothing when he coached up Carson Palmer when he won the Heisman in 2002, or Urban Meyer didn't improve Chris Leak. Coaching players up is huge in college football. I believe Nassib hasn't been coached well, and the fact our offense has only has 2 really good games in the past 2 seasons Kansas State and West Virginia shows me the coaches haven't helped him.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I guess Norm Chow did nothing when he coached up Carson Palmer when he won the Heisman in 2002, or Urban Meyer didn't improve Chris Leak. Coaching players up is huge in college football. I believe Nassib hasn't been coached well, and the fact our offense has only has 2 really good games in the past 2 seasons Kansas State and West Virginia shows me the coaches haven't helped him.

Your missing the point, Nassib has been coached up, some just believe he isn't going to be coached up much more if at all, he is a 5th year senior with 2 plus years of experience. In addition, nobody will ever make Nassib a GREAT qb regardless of coaching

 

[SmilinBob]

I just think people are chasing rainbows when it comes to assistants and their abilities to coach up. I agree, I wish Marrone had a few more recruiters but I think the staff is fine for the most part.. Like I said yesterday, marrone thinks very very highly of Hackett and that is very apparent, it's his team and he is comfortable with that.

Accuracy can't be taught either, IMO. Look at McNabb he was wildly inconsistent throwing the ball

Better mechanics can be taught but the player has to be taught asap, when they get to SU it is hard to teach an old dog a new trick and if that player puts the time in and does get his muscle memory when he feels the stress of a game, you have your victory. Players often go back to what is comfortable when the speed and excitement of a game gets his adenine going. Nassib has to relax and not let his quick twitch instinct take over.

Oh and for Mason, I don't think the kid ever had any time to be able to look long, he ran for his life from game 1 and never could get comfortable or confident enough to sit back and throw. That said, great players can make average coaches look good and bad players can make them look bad and you have to look at the whole resume of a coach like Rogers for example to break down of what he really is capable of.

 

[Alsacs]

Your missing the point, Nassib has been coached up, some just believe he isn't going to be coached up much more if at all, he is a 5th year senior with 2 plus years of experience

If Nassib has been coached up to his potential then SHAME on HCDM for not giving any other QB a chance the last year. Even in the blowouts at the end like against Louisville or Cincinnati he never put anybody else in. Marrone's offense has been AWFUL. Bottom half of the country and he has done nothing to improve it. I hope and pray we are better on offense but I have no faith in that side of the ball I have confidence in the defense and see improvement there.

 

[kingottoiii]

Your missing the point, Nassib has been coached up, some just believe he isn't going to be coached up much more if at all, he is a 5th year senior with 2 plus years of experience. In addition, nobody will ever make Nassib a GREAT qb regardless of coaching

It is too late now for Nassib. But who is working with the guys who will be competing to start in 2013? That is an issue. If Marrone has faith in Hackett as an OC, fine no problem. But that doesn't mean we can't have a QB coach in addition to that. Also having a QB coach on staff makes it easier to recruit the position. I don't see any negative of having a QB coach. Makes more sense to have one of those than 3 DB coaches.

 

[Aweart23]

It is too late now for Nassib. But who is working with the guys who will be competing to start in 2013? That is an issue. If Marrone has faith in Hackett as an OC, fine no problem. But that doesn't mean we can't have a QB coach in addition to that. Also having a QB coach on staff makes it easier to recruit the position. I don't see any negative of having a QB coach. Makes more sense to have one of those than 3 DB coaches.

They felt the defense needed more help from a coaching staff stand point...our passing offense actually improved year over year as much as everyone beats on Hackett...and plenty of coaches coach positions they never played...happens all the time..including our defensive co-ordinator

Passing Offense:
#91 in 2010 to #65 in 2011 in ypg and
#85 in 2010 to #42 in 2011 in total TD's

I am at a loss for words to describe how bad our passing defense was last year
#98 in 2011 from #7 in 2010 in ypg ...#98 #98 #98 and we are wondering why we have a new DB coach and LB coach...

 

[IthacaBarrel]

It is too late now for Nassib. But who is working with the guys who will be competing to start in 2013? That is an issue. If Marrone has faith in Hackett as an OC, fine no problem. But that doesn't mean we can't have a QB coach in addition to that. Also having a QB coach on staff makes it easier to recruit the position. I don't see any negative of having a QB coach. Makes more sense to have one of those than 3 DB coaches.

OC/ QB coach isn't that big of a stretch and very manageable for most coaches, who knows how much Hackett works, etc etc. I would agree that he should not be coaching te's as well but so be it. Lets wait and see the next qb before we start harping on lack of development.. we have had several qb coaches over the last 15 years, still not a ton of success.