Tim Duncan or Larry Bird?

[Knicks411]

While I am a huge Tim Duncan fan and I think he is a big part of the Spurs success, I also believe he has benefited from a great coach and organization, not to mention some excellent teammates. Winning a title was easier than getting to the title. He beat a Ewingless Knicks team, the Nets, Pistons, and Cavs. I do believe he is the greatest PF ever, but I won't put him top 5 no matter what. I also think Karl Malone is being glossed over. Eighteen season averages of 25/10+/3.6 makes an argument for best PF ever, too. Plus, he had a harder path to a ring (which he never got). Duncan a much better rebounder, but Malone a much better enforcer. I am a firm believer in rings not defining greatness.

Many years the East wasn't good, but they had to win wars to get through the west.

I do think the Spurs have a great coach and organization, without question, but I wonder how great we would think they were if they didn't have Tim Duncan. I think Duncan benefited from the organization, but the organization benefited from him more.

 

[Knicks411]

Malone choked in the playoffs? He had one of the top 5 games in playoff history against one of the best teams ion history in a decided game (lost to Jordan)

When did this happen? In 97, the Bulls beat the Jazz in game 6. He had 21 points and 7 rebounds on 7-15 from the field (and 7 for 15 from the line!). So I assume that wasn't it. In 98 he was 11-19, 31 and 11 in Game 6 when the Bulls won the title. Really strong game; but one of the top 5 games in playoff history? Come on. Michael Jordan probably had 20 playoff games better than that by himself.

Since we're talking Duncan too; in the 03 clincher vs the Nets Duncan put up a 21-20-10-8. That might be a top 5 playoff game. (Probably not, but thats a hell of a game)

 

[alphaorange]

When did this happen? In 97, the Bulls beat the Jazz in game 6. He had 21 points and 7 rebounds on 7-15 from the field (and 7 for 15 from the line!). So I assume that wasn't it. In 98 he was 11-19, 31 and 11 in Game 6 when the Bulls won the title. Really strong game; but one of the top 5 games in playoff history? Come on. Michael Jordan probably had 20 playoff games better than that by himself.

Since we're talking Duncan too; in the 03 clincher vs the Nets Duncan put up a 21-20-10-8. That might be a top 5 playoff game. (Probably not, but thats a hell of a game)

1995 game five. 17-27, 44 minutes, 39 points, 9 boards, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, and 1 TO...against the Bulls. On the Road. Espn top 5 performance. I agree. Duncan is great, no doubt. I am simply saying that there is a lot of personal feelings involved. He is a class act, a great , great performer, and has won. I'm simply pointing out some other things that people seem to forget. Malone was a bit of an asshat and people gravitate towards good guys. I was just pointing out that Duncan would likely not have all the rings he has if he had to get through the same gauntlet that Malone did. There were more than a few good teams in the west, and Duncan didn't have Jordan waiting on him...

 

[Knicks411]

1995 game five. 17-27, 44 minutes, 39 points, 9 boards, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, and 1 TO...against the Bulls.

In 95 the Bulls lost to the Magic in the second round; they never made it out of the East to play the Jazz. They did lose a Game 5 to the Rockets that year, Malone went 10-21, 35 points 10 boards, which is good, but not quite your numbers. And your numbers aren't a top 5 playoff game of all time anyway.

 

[Alsacs]

1995 game five. 17-27, 44 minutes, 39 points, 9 boards, 5 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, and 1 TO...against the Bulls. On the Road. Espn top 5 performance. I agree. Duncan is great, no doubt. I am simply saying that there is a lot of personal feelings involved. He is a class act, a great , great performer, and has won. I'm simply pointing out some other things that people seem to forget. Malone was a bit of an asshat and people gravitate towards good guys. I was just pointing out that Duncan would likely not have all the rings he has if he had to get through the same gauntlet that Malone did. There were more than a few good teams in the west, and Duncan didn't have Jordan waiting on him...

Karl Malone is a legend and top 20 player all-time and I see you post his numbers from game 5 of the 1998 Finals this is clip I always remember from Malone now. Start at 8:25

 

[Eric15]

When did this happen? In 97, the Bulls beat the Jazz in game 6. He had 21 points and 7 rebounds on 7-15 from the field (and 7 for 15 from the line!).

I think it was Game 1 of the 1997 Finals, Malone went to the line very late in the game for two critical foul shots, and Pippen walked up and whispered in his ear "the Mailman doesn't deliver on Sunday" (the game was on a Sunday), and he missed both. I thought that was awesome.

 

[Knicks411]

Ok, that makes more sense. It wasn't a deciding game and it wasn't in 95, so I was confused. That's certainly a hell of a game though.

 

[Alsacs]

I think it was Game 1 of the 1997 Finals, Malone went to the line very late in the game for two critical foul shots, and Pippen walked up and whispered in his ear "the Mailman doesn't deliver on Sunday" (the game was on a Sunday), and he missed both. I thought that was awesome.

I just posted that clip go to 8:25.

 

[SWC75]

ever see footage of wilt shooting a free throw? or dribbling? it's comical, he looks like a girl who doesn't know how to play. freak size and athlete, but actual offensive skills other than dunking?

Let's got to the tape:

 

[SWC75]

Let's got to the tape:

And here's another good one. I like because the first part of it focuses on his shooting ability, (not just dunks):

 

[alphaorange]

In 95 the Bulls lost to the Magic in the second round; they never made it out of the East to play the Jazz. They did lose a Game 5 to the Rockets that year, Malone went 10-21, 35 points 10 boards, which is good, but not quite your numbers. And your numbers aren't a top 5 playoff game of all time anyway.

Not my numbers...ESPN/ 1998...not 1995. My mistake.

http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/201...est-single-game-performances-no-5-karl-malone

 

[Knicks411]

Ok that list is top 5 finals game performances of all time, not playoff performances. That narrows the list quite a bit

 

[alphaorange]

Ok that list is top 5 finals game performances of all time, not playoff performances. That narrows the list quite a bit

yep...finals is a bit more important

 

[Shawn91111]

Malone over TD, no way.

 

[Alsacs]

I can think of 5 better playoff performance off the top of my head.
1.Lebron 46 point special versus Detroit 2007.
2. Paul Pierce 41 points in game 7 2008 versus Cleveland
3. Allen Iverson 50 points versus Toronto 2001.
4. Michael Jordan 63 points versus the future NBA champ Boston Celtics in game 2 1986.
5. Charles Barkley 44 pts, 24 reb game 3 1994 versus Golden State.

Malone had a top 20 resume, but never won the big one and the West wasn't as difficult post Showtime in 1991 till the Duncan Spurs/Shaqobe Lakers in 1999-2000.

 

[Knicks411]

yep...finals is a bit more important

Sure, but the statement I debated so vigorously was top 5 playoff performance of all time.

I can think of 5 better playoff performance off the top of my head.
1.Lebron 46 point special versus Detroit 2007.
2. Paul Pierce 41 points in game 7 2008 versus Cleveland
3. Allen Iverson 50 points versus Toronto 2001.
4. Michael Jordan 63 points versus the future NBA champ Boston Celtics in game 2 1986.
5. Charles Barkley 44 pts, 24 reb game 3 1994 versus Golden State.

First three that came to my mind, for whatever reason were Magic, 1980 Finals. Jordan putting up 63 in the Garden, and Lebron against the Pacers in Game 4 last year.

 

[Alsacs]

Sure, but the statement I debated so vigorously was top 5 playoff performance of all time.



First three that came to my mind, for whatever reason were Magic, 1980 Finals. Jordan putting up 63 in the Garden, and Lebron against the Pacers in Game 4 last year.

Lebron game 6 vs Boston last year was more impressive for me than game 4 versus Indiana. Lebron played the whole game versus Boston and completely took over that game with Miami facing elimination, but I agree Magic Game 6 1980 was a good one, but I just went with my memory quickly.

 

[Knicks411]

Yeah now that I think about it you're definitely right that Game 6 vs Boston was better, but like i said, those were the ones that popped in my mind. Maybe because Lebron is playing the Pacers right now.

 

[alphaorange]

Best of all time...don't you really think Magic's is unparalleled? I mean a rookie playing completely out of position with some of the most impressive numbers in the modern NBA..in the finals for the win. In my lifetime, that is the most impressive I've seen, bar none.

 

[Melancer46]

Karl Malone is a legend and top 20 player all-time and I see you post his numbers from game 5 of the 1998 Finals this is clip I always remember from Malone now. Start at 8:25

Oh man, this brings back so many memories. I know this isn't the '97 Finals, but the '97 Finals are probably the earliest memory in my life that I still remember. My brother and I used to hijack my parent's TV and watch those games while we fell asleep.

 

[br801]

And here's another good one. I like because the first part of it focuses on his shooting ability, (not just dunks):

Nice use of the glass. Overall, I'd say the old girl's basketball skills were pretty impressive.