To the people that blame the recruiting

[OttoinGrotto]

I'm not really sure what else we can do. That same recruiting that people are knocking is what got us a bunch of players in the NBA right now. Pretty difficult to plan for Ennis and Grant blowing up, and Coleman having injury issues, and leaving the cupboard bare.

I'm not really sure who you're supposed to get when it looks like you've got good players in the program. The only incoming recruit from 2013 that had a clear path to playing time was Ennis. To get a guy like Roberson was a big pick up. BJ has a lot of room to grow. Buss, eh, I would've liked to have seen us try and hold out for Rysheed Jordan, but we made a choice and now we live with it. Then this incoming recruiting class really it wasn't certain we'd have many minutes for anyone if Ennis and Grant are here, and we landed McCullough and Joseph.

If anything, blame player development.

 

[orangefan13]

Yup players leave early for the nba, dion, fab, mcw, grant, ennis all as freshmen sophs and maybe mccullough.
And some like roberson, bj, gbinije, cooney, southerland, Xmas, take time to grow into players even mcw and dion didn't do much as fresh and were top 20 nba draft picks(laughable to see people knocking on joseph).

 

[Eagles20]

Yup players leave early for the nba, dion, fab, mcw, grant, ennis all as freshmen sophs and maybe mccullough.
And some like roberson, bj, gbinije, cooney, southerland, Xmas, take time to grow into players even mcw and dion didn't do much as fresh and were top 20 nba draft picks(laughable to see people knocking on joseph).

I don't think its laughable...the criticism is pretty fair. He will get better and progress as a player, but I think everyone thought he's be able to run a team a little better than he has.

 

[CaptainJ]

I blame whatever the hell has replaced Bernie Fine. It just hasn't cut it.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I'm not really sure what else we can do. That same recruiting that people are knocking is what got us a bunch of players in the NBA right now. Pretty difficult to plan for Ennis and Grant blowing up, and Coleman having injury issues, and leaving the cupboard bare.

I'm not really sure who you're supposed to get when it looks like you've got good players in the program. The only incoming recruit from 2013 that had a clear path to playing time was Ennis. To get a guy like Roberson was a big pick up. BJ has a lot of room to grow. Buss, eh, I would've liked to have seen us try and hold out for Rysheed Jordan, but we made a choice and now we live with it. Then this incoming recruiting class really it wasn't certain we'd have many minutes for anyone if Ennis and Grant are here, and we landed McCullough and Joseph.

If anything, blame player development.

Agreed. Good post. Ennis and Grant just shot up the draft boards SO quickly. The scouts and analysts obviously know of the Okafors, Anthony Davis, Stanley Johnson types who are pros already in high school or close to it. Ennis and Grant were not projected like this. Not even close. Who knows where we would be with a healthy DaJuan. Probably very dangerous last year and now. Player development is certainly worth putting on the table for discussion. Lack of fundamentals from so many players has been a constant trend. It is ultimately what probably made Grant's stock plummet late in the draft process. We have too many guys who can't dribble or shoot the last few years.

 

[Ghost]

I'm not really sure what else we can do. That same recruiting that people are knocking is what got us a bunch of players in the NBA right now. Pretty difficult to plan for Ennis and Grant blowing up, and Coleman having injury issues, and leaving the cupboard bare.

I'm not really sure who you're supposed to get when it looks like you've got good players in the program. The only incoming recruit from 2013 that had a clear path to playing time was Ennis. To get a guy like Roberson was a big pick up. BJ has a lot of room to grow. Buss, eh, I would've liked to have seen us try and hold out for Rysheed Jordan, but we made a choice and now we live with it. Then this incoming recruiting class really it wasn't certain we'd have many minutes for anyone if Ennis and Grant are here, and we landed McCullough and Joseph.

If anything, blame player development.

Our big plan at shooting guard post-Triche has been, what?

Shooting guard is a pretty integral position - you need complimentary skill sets. In the second half of last year we saw what happened when Cooney went cold. The whole offense dried up. Cooney is a great player - if the situation fits. When it doesn't, his value drops considerably. Yet, because of our recruiting we seem to be inexorably tied to him playing 40 minutes, because our only hope is that he gets hot from three. It's quite painful to watch.

We have nobody that can create off the bounce consistently. Ennis wasn't exactly pushing the pace or dictating tempo, but was exceptional at running the offense and limiting mistakes.

Joseph wasn't supposed to be thrust in this role so it's unfair to judge him too harshly this early, but he's not exactly showing much in the way of creativity yet. I do think you need, on some level, to have someone with a little bit of explosiveness to their game. We've lacked that - for awhile now. Probably since MCW left campus.

G seemed rather pedestrian from day 1. Although he has shown a bit more of an explosive first step this year. What we gain from his being more athletic than Cooney, we lose in that he seems to have a worse shot. And that's saying something right about now. He also seems incredibly prone to "What was that" moments.

Patterson wasn't heralded much for his ballhandling skills coming in, and neither was BJ. I don't know - our recruiting in those areas seems to be lacking a bit.

I did think Roberson was the answer at small forward...so far that hasn't turned out very well. So, that's the one thing I will cut them some slack on. I'm surprised he has been so slow to develop as well.

 

[FortyFourCT]

I just see it as all the early defections of the past few years have finally caught up to us at the same time we have a soph. class that is taking some time to develop. We'll have a rocky year...still see that talent on the floor so things can get better...but if we miss a tournament, well OK. It is not the end of the world. It is not our birthright to be in the tournament every year. A little losing makes the winning better.

 

[SBU72]

Agreed. Good post. Ennis and Grant just shot up the draft boards SO quickly. The scouts and analysts obviously know of the Okafors, Anthony Davis, Stanley Johnson types who are pros already in high school or close to it. Ennis and Grant were not projected like this. Not even close. Who knows where we would be with a healthy DaJuan. Probably very dangerous last year and now. Player development is certainly worth putting on the table for discussion. Lack of fundamentals from so many players has been a constant trend. It is ultimately what probably made Grant's stock plummet late in the draft process. We have too many guys who can't dribble or shoot the last few years.

Considering how well Colman was playing (or should I say not playing), Su would not be any better than they were last year. And probably this year. He is/was not the answer to this years problems.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Coleman could barely stay on the court when he was healthy. Good rebounder, but not much else.

Remember when freshman and sophomores on SU teams used to give 12-20 minutes and score 6-12 points per game (in conference)? Good times.

 

[bevosu]

I'm not sure Coleman has ever been 100% healthy? Big guy with iffy knees.

 

[SoBeCuse]

No question re: Coleman. Assuming healthy he would just be another body to help score inside since the guards can't do anything. Anything to score/rebound.

 

[OrangeFoo]

You're damn right... I do blame our recruiting. But not in the way you think. I could care less about the one and doners, I am tired of the fact that we don't recruit shooters we recruit long and rangey athletes who play the zone well. I want a freaking shooting guard who can shoot. Cal, Michigan, Iowa, and St Johns had three players who can shoot on the court we have none. We should be able to get any player St Johns has on their roster if we want them. I would love to hear the story about why Rysheed Jordan is not a cuse player... Who did we recruit over him and why?

Folks need to realize that our offensive ineptitude is not a one year thing... We have been trending this way for years and this year seems to be the culmination. The last few years our D and the general sh!ttiness of college hoops has masked our offensive ineptitude. JB is a brilliant man... He saw the way college hoops was trending a decade ago (poor shooting, crazy slow pace) and created a program optimized to take advantage of the trends. When he has a team playing even average D he is guaranteed a NCAA bid, a decent seed, and a loss when his team of non-shooters goes cold and the opponent is competent on offense. Most years it will be in the sweet 16 but in other years college hoops will be so bad and his D so good that he might make the final four.

This years main problem is that the zone is getting sliced up way too easily... I would say its one of the worst since the dynasty team.

 

[jekelish]

Our big plan at shooting guard post-Triche has been, what?

Shooting guard is a pretty integral position - you need complimentary skill sets. In the second half of last year we saw what happened when Cooney went cold. The whole offense dried up. Cooney is a great player - if the situation fits. When it doesn't, his value drops considerably. Yet, because of our recruiting we seem to be inexorably tied to him playing 40 minutes, because our only hope is that he gets hot from three. It's quite painful to watch.

We have nobody that can create off the bounce consistently. Ennis wasn't exactly pushing the pace or dictating tempo, but was exceptional at running the offense and limiting mistakes.

Joseph wasn't supposed to be thrust in this role so it's unfair to judge him too harshly this early, but he's not exactly showing much in the way of creativity yet. I do think you need, on some level, to have someone with a little bit of explosiveness to their game. We've lacked that - for awhile now. Probably since MCW left campus.

G seemed rather pedestrian from day 1. Although he has shown a bit more of an explosive first step this year. What we gain from his being more athletic than Cooney, we lose in that he seems to have a worse shot. And that's saying something right about now. He also seems incredibly prone to "What was that" moments.

Patterson wasn't heralded much for his ballhandling skills coming in, and neither was BJ. I don't know - our recruiting in those areas seems to be lacking a bit.

I did think Roberson was the answer at small forward...so far that hasn't turned out very well. So, that's the one thing I will cut them some slack on. I'm surprised he has been so slow to develop as well.

Regarding the 2 guard spot, the unfortunate truth is that we do have an adequate backup - Gbinije. He just can't ever play there, because he's also our backup PG and SF, and those are spots where we've got zero experience so he's needed to plug those holes.

I'm a Cooney defender mainly because I hate seeing the way people tear a kid down so frequently, but there is one thing I like a lot better about Gbinije and that's the fact that, while he's not as good a shooter as Cooney, he actually looks to score in other ways. Cooney has basically, at this point, decided that if he can't score on a three or a breakaway dunk, he's not going to try to score. Gbinije is more than willing to shoot a pull up, midrange jumper or take it to the rack.

I wish like hell Cooney would do that, it might get him some more space on the perimeter since it would show defenders he's not completely a one trick pony.

 

[Orangezoo]

Yeah you cant blame the recruiting at all. I will say that i am hopeful that we get a break in someone expected to bail sticks around. If cmac would shock the orange world and come back as ennis and grant did the opposite by leaving maybe it can help re-balance things and get back on track.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't think its laughable...the criticism is pretty fair. He will get better and progress as a player, but I think everyone thought he's be able to run a team a little better than he has.

The "everyone" are the fans. Not the coaches. They recruited him to be the backup point for a year, maybe two. Ennis leaving early was not expected. They love Joseph and his potential. But they knew from day 1 he was a year of development away from being a real good PG. He lost that year and has now been thrust onto the main stage. All this PT will certainly speed up his development but it won't happen overnight.