To the SU students and recent grads | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

To the SU students and recent grads

These prices you quote must be for single games. A co-worker of mine has a freshman at SU and he told me season tix for students were something like $150. When I was at SU (87-91) it worked out to $5 a game on the season plan. I'm of the opinion that students should get in for free.

We expected to win every game when I was there and we turned out in droves, even for the early season cupcakes. BE games averaged about 25k fans with all big games on weekends drawing 32k.

The student demographics have changed a lot with a higher percentage of foreign students who don't care about American sports, sadly.

It really fell off after probation (right after you left); that's why they consolidated the student section in the first place.

After a 20-year period when going to every game just wasn't part of the campus culture, it was a hard thing to resuscitate.
 
Wikipedia shows that SU has over 20,000 students (14,000 undergrad, 6,000 grad). How large a foreign population is there to change the # attending that much. Yeah, I konw foreign students are supposed to be more serious but part of college life is doing young people things and some of them have get into American sports. How else do you think basketball has spread world wide. Also look at Duke. 14000 students and more grad students than undergrad and look at their student section! I could go on and on. It just looks like that SU student section has less in it than most other schools. Is the school to blame for cost and location of the seats so kids are disinterested?
Cameron only holds 9,500 so it's only packed. If SU games were still in Manley every game would be packed and the same number of students attending would look like great attendance. But I am dismayed by the poor stdent attendance at a lot of games. I also think the pricing of student tix and the marketing of them is poor. Frankly, I'm not sure that the AD really wants the students sometimes. Remember back to when Jake C went on campaign to tone done the student exuberance because he didn't like that they waved their hands behind the basket at opposing players (even though it's done everywhere) and the cursing and off-color chants. I think that was the beginning of the decline in student interest.
 
whatever the reason, it is very apparent that our student section does not bring the same energy and passion lately as other big programs. Luckily for the Orange, we have a phenomenal base of alumni who pick up the slack. (exception being the 90 yr old couples who sit there and read books during the games).
How about the teenagers, the twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty-year-somethings that have there heads buried in their laps as they text away. There are far more younger people who have leather lungs that aren't using them enough.
 
It is.

They definitely want to disincentivize picking and choosing from a handful of single game.
It's only $26 if you buy individual games. The student package for 12 games is $120 ...$10 a game.
 
It's only $26 if you buy individual games. The student package for 12 games is $120 ...$10 a game.

Exactly.

I've got no business telling people how to spend their money, but that's a good deal. (And it's similar to last season, so price absolutely can't be the reason for the decline.)
 
I don't know how accurate that 14,000 number is. I asked a friend of mine who was a long-time SU employee (fairly high up in Dome operations) why the student attendance is so low and the higher percentage of foreign students was his answer.
To me that is a cop out. Put in a range of 12 to 16,000. Even 50% foreign born, that is 6 to 8,000! That's alot of american students. Are they saying that over half of the students are foreign born? In countries where basketball does not exist? Remember China has a basketball league. B-ball is big in Japan, South America, Central America and most of Europe. Are ALL foreign born kids so serious that they don't particapate in American culture. I think that the sports department is seriously hurting themselves if they don't even try to cultviate those sutdents. And that's just undergrads. What about Grad students? When you graudate, you lose your interest in b-ball? Naw, there has to be something else going on.
 
$26 for a student ticket is criminal. Isn't the university getting enough out of the kids from their tuition?

The university doesn't realize that crap like this is why kids graduate with the feeling like they were nickel and dimed. In the long run this is the kind of stuff decreases alumni donations back to the school. Absolutely no foresight.
 
The university doesn't realize that crap like this is why kids graduate with the feeling like they were nickel and dimed. In the long run this is the kind of stuff decreases alumni donations back to the school. Absolutely no foresight.
Are you disagreeing that $120 is a lot of money for student season tickets. I could be convinced either way on that one. It could be cheaper, but when you compare it to $40,000+ in tuition and fees, it's pocket change.

I personally don't think that it's a money issue. Not everyone is a basketball (or football) fan. Lots of Cuse students go there for four years and never step in the Dome for a game. If I was a Cuse employee and concerned about student attendance, I would target the greeks. Not sure how many active fraternity and sorority members there currently are, but according to this about 20% of the students belong to one.

http://syr.edu/admissions/undergraduate/studentlife/greeklife.html

I attended Oswego and went to at least 90% of the hockey games. Anyone who did would tell you that it was a great time. However, not all Oswego students went, and I'm pretty sure we got to go for free (or back then maybe it was a buck or two). Some people just have no interest (or have conflicting interests-like classes or exams).
 
The university doesn't realize that crap like this is why kids graduate with the feeling like they were nickel and dimed. In the long run this is the kind of stuff decreases alumni donations back to the school. Absolutely no foresight.

If alumni have ignored the tremendous deal that is student season tickets (equally widely publicized as the single-game price) and instead wants to harp on the $26 non-fan single-game price, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they weren't likely to become donors to begin with.

A lot of people might be skimming this thread and having $26 jump out at them.

All 20,000 students have the option to pay under $200 and attend every football and basketball game when they're on campus. If that doesn't interest them, too bad.
 
...
I personally don't think that it's a money issue. Not everyone is a basketball (or football) fan. Lots of Cuse students go there for four years and never step in the Dome for a game. If I was a Cuse employee and concerned about student attendance, I would target the greeks. Not sure how many active fraternity and sorority members there currently are, but according to this about 20% of the students belong to one.

http://syr.edu/admissions/undergraduate/studentlife/greeklife.html

I attended Oswego and went to at least 90% of the hockey games. Anyone who did would tell you that it was a great time. However, not all Oswego students went, and I'm pretty sure we got to go for free (or back then maybe it was a buck or two). Some people just have no interest (or have conflicting interests-like classes or exams).

Absolutely.

Many schools' Greek-letter organizations have a lot of house and school pride and really take sports seriously.

Syracuse's don't seem to have much pride in either. There's occasionally a row of sorority girls at hoops games, but that's the exception to the rule. SU should put some pressure on the houses to make this work.
 
Are you disagreeing that $120 is a lot of money for student season tickets. I could be convinced either way on that one. It could be cheaper, but when you compare it to $40,000+ in tuition and fees, it's pocket change.

I personally don't think that it's a money issue. Not everyone is a basketball (or football) fan. Lots of Cuse students go there for four years and never step in the Dome for a game. If I was a Cuse employee and concerned about student attendance, I would target the greeks. Not sure how many active fraternity and sorority members there currently are, but according to this about 20% of the students belong to one.

http://syr.edu/admissions/undergraduate/studentlife/greeklife.html

I attended Oswego and went to at least 90% of the hockey games. Anyone who did would tell you that it was a great time. However, not all Oswego students went, and I'm pretty sure we got to go for free (or back then maybe it was a buck or two). Some people just have no interest (or have conflicting interests-like classes or exams).
They come, and for the most part, they're idiots.
 
How about having all the student ticket sales go to paying the student athletes. *gasp* "nooo we couldn't GIVE money to students! That's crazy! We couldn't compensate student-athletes for their efforts & performances, that might actually prepare them for how things work in the real world!"

Making students pay to see fellow students play is %$#$ing backwards. And I will say the same thing about any and every school charging students for tickets. The hypocrisy is unbearable.

Every year more and more kids & even parents are questioning the value of the education when what cost $30,000/year a decade ago is now costing kids $50,000-60,000. People want to know where the added value is... so when the little things like this pop up, people will only further question the value of that tuition if activities as commonplace in the college experience as sports and supporting fellow classmates' & friends' teams is now to be considered a premium service. I hope people realize how bad this looks.
 
If alumni have ignored the tremendous deal that is student season tickets (equally widely publicized as the single-game price) and instead wants to harp on the $26 non-fan single-game price, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they weren't likely to become donors to begin with.

A lot of people might be skimming this thread and having $26 jump out at them.

All 20,000 students have the option to pay under $200 and attend every football and basketball game when they're on campus. If that doesn't interest them, too bad.

Are you disagreeing that $120 is a lot of money for student season tickets. I could be convinced either way on that one. It could be cheaper, but when you compare it to $40,000+ in tuition and fees, it's pocket change.

I personally don't think that it's a money issue. Not everyone is a basketball (or football) fan. Lots of Cuse students go there for four years and never step in the Dome for a game. If I was a Cuse employee and concerned about student attendance, I would target the greeks. Not sure how many active fraternity and sorority members there currently are, but according to this about 20% of the students belong to one.

http://syr.edu/admissions/undergraduate/studentlife/greeklife.html

I attended Oswego and went to at least 90% of the hockey games. Anyone who did would tell you that it was a great time. However, not all Oswego students went, and I'm pretty sure we got to go for free (or back then maybe it was a buck or two). Some people just have no interest (or have conflicting interests-like classes or exams).

I think it's a good deal, but that's not the point. The point is that for a $40,000 a year education that they're nickel and dimed for the little things too.

Regardless of how much money they have or not, I know it leaves a bad taste in some alums' mouths. And regardless of how much money they have, it adds up at the very least and the university needs to do a better job with its alumni relations.
 
How about having all the student ticket sales go to paying the student athletes. *gasp* "nooo we couldn't GIVE money to students! That's crazy! And we couldn't compensate students for their efforts & performances, that might prepare them for the real world!"

That's fine - so long non revenue sports.
 
That's fine - so long non revenue sports.
How does students paying students end the money flow from the TV deals that fund the other sports? How does added money from allowing endorsements change any single dollar already coming in?

The current system is rank with "do as we say, not as we do".
 
How does students paying students end the money flow from the TV deals that fund the other sports? How does added money from allowing endorsements change any single dollar already coming in?

The current system is rank with "do as we say, not as we do".

Hey, it's not like I care about women's volleyball, might as well see how it goes.

I favor a system that cuts a check to an athlete for the full cost of tuition and room and board. They have two options, they can either have it pay for their education, or they can keep the money and play and they won't have access to the education.
 
I favor a system that cuts a check to an athlete for the full cost of tuition and room and board. They have two options, they can either have it pay for their education, or they can keep the money and play and they won't have access to the education.

I actually like that idea.

Noticed I'm on a bit of an 'angry old man' streak today for some reason. Guess I'm just tired of colleges and universities a) demonizing athletes for their academics pretending as if athletics can't be treated as a 'profession', and b) forcing both students and athletes to behave in all manners of their lives contrary to how society works in the real world... then having the audacity to pretend their existence is to prepare kids for their futures.
 
I'm really glad someone started this thread, as I've been meaning to share my thoughts about this. I really don't blame the students for their poor showings. People have to consider the fact that the dome offers up a horrible in-game experience for the SU students. Besides being behind the backboard (obviously seats aligned vertically with the court are ideal) the student seats are just soooo damn far from court. It is a really shitty way to watch the games.

Now this is the thing, there are two aspects of going to a bball game live: (1) seeing the game itself, and (2) being there for the atmosphere. I think we can all concede that students are put in a poor position to actually watch the game, so then it all becomes about atmosphere. For a big game like G-Town this weekend you know the Dome is gonna be nuts and it is worth it to be there regardless of how shitty your seats are just because the atmosphere will be electric. But for Providence on a Wednesday night? The Dome is gonna be dead, so you have a shitty seat to watch the game and you're in a quiet stadium so really what's the point of going? Hard to justify it when you could instead stay at home with your bong and a case of keystone and get an infinitely better view of the game on your 45'' HD TV. It sucks that this is the situation, but it is what it is.

BTW I'm class of 2011.
 
I took a Sports Marketing class with Mr. Excitement (Mike Veley) in 2005 and he told us that the students were moved to behind the basket because they weren’t showing up when they were on the sides and it was embarrassing (also probably cost them lots of $).

Other interesting facts from that class:
· It was held on Thursday nights from 7-10pm (lots of classes are that late when the teachers are adjuncts)
· He had us write papers on how we would improve the experience for fans at the dome. He definitely stole ideas from all the papers. I know ours had better cushioned seats and painting walls orange. We also had a crazy idea to build a mini dome outside on the ESF campus for pregame festivities, no go on that so far.
Who's the student that wrote "thunder from down under" and "shove from above". Sounded like they aced the paper instead of failing, which they should have.

I think it's just students being students - they have other things on their minds and aren't necessarily hardcore fans as a whole, yet.
 
On and on another note this is something else that really bothers me:

Anytime the camera pans to the student section you always get a shot of the front rows which are of course filled with [almost exclusively] dorky freshman guys, which makes sense because they are the ones who wait for hours and hours to get those seats. This is a HORRIBLE representation of our school. I don't think most people realize how many attractive females there are at SU. Is there any way that we could reserve a block of seats near the front of the student section and give them to different sororities on a rotating basis or something?!
 
I'm really glad someone started this thread, as I've been meaning to share my thoughts about this. I really don't blame the students for their poor showings. People have to consider the fact that the dome offers up a horrible in-game experience for the SU students. Besides being behind the backboard (obviously seats aligned vertically with the court are ideal) the student seats are just soooo damn far from court. It is a really shitty way to watch the games.

Now this is the thing, there are two aspects of going to a bball game live: (1) seeing the game itself, and (2) being there for the atmosphere. I think we can all concede that students are put in a poor position to actually watch the game, so then it all becomes about atmosphere. For a big game like G-Town this weekend you know the Dome is gonna be nuts and it is worth it to be there regardless of how shitty your seats are just because the atmosphere will be electric. But for Providence on a Wednesday night? The Dome is gonna be dead, so you have a shitty seat to watch the game and you're in a quiet stadium so really what's the point of going? Hard to justify it when you could instead stay at home with your bong and a case of keystone and get an infinitely better view of the game on your 45'' HD TV. It sucks that this is the situation, but it is what it is.
Eh, poor argument IMO. There are plenty of 'townies' with those same excuses that show up much more frequently than students ... and they don't get student prices or the convenience factor of living in walking distance from the dome.

I think it really boils down to money. To older folks, $160 doesn't sound like much at all, but college students have like literally zero spending cash. That $50k in tuition is intended (and advertised) to cover basically every cost of living while being a student (though don't get me started on textbooks) ... so to deem something as traditional as attending your own school's sporting events a 'luxury' is not only offensive based on sheer principle, but it inevitably prices out any kids living on an already pathetic daily budget of personal cash & accumulating unprecedented levels of debt.

I just think that supporting your school's athletics are part of the 'college experience' whatever that may be, so to not include it in the already controversial tuition rates is sending a bad message.
 
Hey, it's not like I care about women's volleyball, might as well see how it goes.

I favor a system that cuts a check to an athlete for the full cost of tuition and room and board. They have two options, they can either have it pay for their education, or they can keep the money and play and they won't have access to the education.

There is enough money to pay and offer them tuition. Heck, they give employees of the school and their children free tuition, and they don't raise the millions of $'s like some of these schools athletic departments.
 
To me that is a cop out. Put in a range of 12 to 16,000. Even 50% foreign born, that is 6 to 8,000! That's alot of american students. Are they saying that over half of the students are foreign born? In countries where basketball does not exist? Remember China has a basketball league. B-ball is big in Japan, South America, Central America and most of Europe. Are ALL foreign born kids so serious that they don't particapate in American culture. I think that the sports department is seriously hurting themselves if they don't even try to cultviate those sutdents. And that's just undergrads. What about Grad students? When you graudate, you lose your interest in b-ball? Naw, there has to be something else going on.
Look, the fact is that most international students don't give a rat's ass about American sports, basketball included. I went to SU and knew some international students. They never went to any games, of any kind.I work for an international bank that employs student interns from abroad. We have had hundreds of them in the 15 years I've worked here. I can count on 1 hand how many of them were interested in basketball.
If you want to dismiss it wholesale as one of the reasons that student attendance is down, I don't know what to tell you.
 
The fact that every game can be watched pretty much anywhere certainly comes into play. People with Iphones and droids can watch ESPN3 and ESPN , you can watch on your computer and heck, you can take the $26 bucks, buy some beer and some weed and watch it where you want with impunity. Times have changed from when a basketball game was "the event" and if you didn't go to the game chances were you weren't going to be able to see it.
At SU in the early 60's much of this rings true. Although weed was somewhat scarce, cell phones, Iphones were non-existent and TV coverage was very limited. Game time enthusiasm was extremely high. Add that Manley Field House was always packed with as many as it could hold. Don't remember (beer) but think students got in free, no assigned seats. Great memories but a different generation and stadium size and requirements today.
 
Look, the fact is that most international students don't give a rat's ass about American sports, basketball included. I went to SU and knew some international students. They never went to any games, of any kind.I work for an international bank that employs student interns from abroad. We have had hundreds of them in the 15 years I've worked here. I can count on 1 hand how many of them were interested in basketball.
If you want to dismiss it wholesale as one of the reasons that student attendance is down, I don't know what to tell you.
Excuse me. If you want to say they don't have an interest in american sports, fine. It MAY be one reason, but what about the other 6 to 8,000 undergrads assuming 50% foreign students. That's a lot of people. And that's just undergrad. Even 10% of the graduate student is around 600. Half of the undergrad or 25% of the whole is still 3 to 4,000. From accounts, there aren't even that many.
 

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