Today’s college BB talent

[MikeSU02]

Nowhere near what it was in 80,s 90’s and the first ten years of the 2000’s.

not even close.

While the NBA has more talent than ever before and the most fun game to watch.

 

[sufandu]

Thats why college programs need to develop a specific culture and style to adapt.

And those who win championships have solid role players that developed sprinkled with two-and-done types.

The talent has bifurcated and the regular season isn’t as good, but nothing is as good as March Madness.

You can only adapt so much when the elite talent is absent. When I watch good teams in the 80's and 90's, they're loaded with people that can pass, dribble, shoot, create, and finish. There is much less of that today. A change in culture and style can't solve that.

 

[Orangezoo]

A bunch of ranked and solid teams on today. Been going through the games this afternoon and honestly, I could be watching the same game 15 times. Except for when I see SU who looks different and not in a good way. Spread out, attack off the dribble, kick it if there isn't a lane, repeat or shoot it, crash the boards and play aggressive man d. The reality of why talent is the only way to truly win is as obvious as ever.

If you play a style that deviates from above, you need even more talent. We have had teams like that and thus had success. Don't get me wrong- a good system can help you like it does UVA but all the same they won with some serious talent last year.

Our offensive style would work if we shot it consistently well, played a defense that didn't play into the hands of today's 3 happy game and had more guys capable of taking their man off the dribble.

 

[HtownOrange]

Just another opinion on the matter:

The change is a compilation of many factors. Most have been discussed, so this is not original. Just read the bold for the short version.
1) Kids do not learn fundamentals at the lower levels - Kids used to know their positions very well and would play a second or third position. Kids who were short and then growth spurts would have learned how to dribble, drive and pass and made them very good big men. This is the school's fault in the younger years. Just because a kid is big is no excuse not to teach him to dribble, pass and shoot. Fundamentals are always important. Teach fundamentals at all levels. (I guess that makes me a "fundamentalist" but so be it. I love to watch games where big guys can dribble and shoot from anywhere as much as the power inside game, elite passing and drives).
2) The idea of a dominating center/power forward combo seems to be less prevalent today. Sure, you can find exceptions, but from 1980-2010 centers and power forwards were a big part of the game. This possibly duie to the three point shot coming to fruition.
3) The three point shot develaued the inside game. I am old enough to have played before the three point shot was a thing in college. Because all shots from the field were worth the same, the inside game with a dominating center and power forward game was very important, not just for rebounding and clean up shots (out-backs). Ironically, the three-pointer was added to "increase" scoring, as was the shot clock. Obviously, nobody was watching the running, transition teams who were scoring similar to what the high scoring teams are scoring today.
4) Officiating stinks. Sorry, but people should go back to the days when your hand had to be on the "northern hemisphere" of the ball. No placing the hand below the ball, no scooping the ball and flipping the hand over (carry) dribbling. Let's be honest, the refs are not fully to blame, the rules committees, teams, NBA, etc. all want their "stars" to not get called for their laziness so the rules are changed or not enforced. Imagine today's players under the 1980's refs - few would last long without adapting. Also, travelling was an issue, now, it's as if nobody cares.
5) Player size has increased. The average height of teams has increased and that means hand size has increased. The ball size has been constant. Larger hands make it easier to wrap around the ball, see #4. The rim remains at 10 feet. The court dimensions remain the same. Make the court bigger, raise the rim and you may see more of the old style of game come back.
6) The shot clock was used for force the tempo of the game. Defense has been devalued and is not as disciplined. Short teams (Princeton anyone?) had a chance to play very disciplined offense, wearing down a defense and get a good shot, even when they averaged 6"-8" less in height. To beat Princeton, a defense had to stay very disciplined, Princeton players were very well coached and disciplined, fundamentals were used to beat top teams.
7) The NBA taking the gamble on high schoolers. Few high schoolers are physically ready for the NBA. Most kids are not even close for the NBA mentally. Still, the lure of the big money, especially for kids who are marginally college material (academics), is very strong. The NBA can afford to gamble because they make money hand over fist.
8) The acceptance of kids who are not college material and one-and-dones. Yes, Carmello Anthony was a one-and-done, so SU is not innocent in this matter. However, kids who are not academically qualified for college should have the ability to go to the NBA directly (as should those who are academically qualified but wish to bypass college) in a minor league capacity. Those kids who want an education and qualify will be more apt to stay 3-4 years and improve their opportunity to get drafted based on their game improvement.

I think that the NBA taking kids straight from HS will not hurt the NCAA game as much as many people believe. Fans of schools will still have fans of the schools. The schools will not get eth one-and-dones and will have players for four years, developing them players the same way the used to develop players. It may improve the game a little. Also, the NBA took players from HS for a while and it didn't hurt the NCAA game.

 

[MadNY3]

You can only adapt so much when the elite talent is absent. When I watch good teams in the 80's and 90's, they're loaded with people that can pass, dribble, shoot, create, and finish. There is much less of that today. A change in culture and style can't solve that.

Jay Wright might disagree!

 

[OrangeDW]

Couldn’t agree more. Kids play a lot more bball because of AAU. Kids don’t play a lot of fundamental basketball because of AAU.
My golf coach used to say “you can practice all you want, but if you’re not practicing the right way it doesn’t matter.”

Right. They play a lot more games trying to showcase themselves. That’s all that is. Big individualized money making showcase.

 

[realorange]

One of the negatives I see, and I have a 16-year old in the middle of it, is the lack of competitive urgency. They know there is another game after this one, so losing doesn't hurt as much as it should. That translates into not diving on the floor, not going just a little harder for that rebound, or not working as hard on defense.

We saw that tonight in more than one spot. A particular sequence that brought me out of my chair was a rebound that went to the floor 3 -4 feet in front of JG3 and he just froze in place looking at it instead of diving for it. Hard to pick too hard on him because he's a fighter, but that was a bad one.

 

[sufandu]

Jay Wright might disagree!

How do you mean?

 

[MadNY3]

How do you mean?

He has built a strong program in the new modern era.

 

[SBU72]

It's only going to get worse as the NBA does away with the one and done rule and expands the d-league.

Funny thing now is that everybody points to the MLB minor league system as a blueprint for the NBA. Now the commissioner of the MLB wants to get rid of many of the lower level teams and when pushed back says maybe the MLB should just elminate the minors. The underlying reason, money. MLB contracts are getting out of control just like the NBA player contacts.

 

[sufandu]

He has built a strong program in the new modern era.

That's not at all what I was talking about. I took this conversation to be about the college basketball landscape as a whole, not whether an isolated team can be successful within it.

Interest in college basketball is waning largely because elite talent is all but absent. Strategizing by any single team, conference, or even the NCAA will not make up for lack of talent/undeveloped talent.

 

[sufandu]

Funny thing now is that everybody points to the MLB minor league system as a blueprint for the NBA. Now the commissioner of the MLB wants to get rid of many of the lower level teams and when pushed back says maybe the MLB should just elminate the minors. The underlying reason, money. MLB contracts are getting out of control just like the NBA player contacts.

Probably even more out of control, considering there is no salary cap. I don't know the numbers and don't have the time or ambition to look them up, but I wonder what percentage of revenue each league spends on player contracts. How much money is spent/made off of the minor leagues? How many players are playing in the minors that never have a chance to even sniff the majors? How different would a NBA minor system look, if it was more developed with each team having its own team and maybe giving specific instructions on how they want certain players developed and how to distribute playing time?

 

[hoopsupstate]

I will never for the life of me understand the constant hate on AAU. Kids play more organized basketball now than they ever have before and it’s awesome for everyone involved. Sports evolve just like anything else and just because the game is different now than it was a couple decades ago only makes it subjectively worse. Transition basketball and three point shooting is entertaining to me, a young.

It seems like AAU is the scapegoat people point to when they don’t like the way the game is played now but I would argue it produces far more positives than negatives. Basketball changes just like football has to spread offenses and air raids it’s a part of sports.

Totally disagree. It’s bad basketball. Fundamentals are lost and coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It’s all one on one and players are just showcasing themselves. There are some exceptions, but it’s been bad for basketball. Playing more games doesn’t equal improvement. If you’re practicing or playing wrong, you’re not going to improve.

 

[Gabjon]

Probably even more out of control, considering there is no salary cap. I don't know the numbers and don't have the time or ambition to look them up, but I wonder what percentage of revenue each league spends on player contracts. How much money is spent/made off of the minor leagues? How many players are playing in the minors that never have a chance to even sniff the majors? How different would a NBA minor system look, if it was more developed with each team having its own team and maybe giving specific instructions on how they want certain players developed and how to distribute playing time?

The differences are huge.

First a baseball roster is roughly twice the size of the basketball roster, which drives up front end and back in cost.

There is only one division of minor league being proposed in basketball

The G-league is looking to stream games globally (the china market is huge in this regard) but with a nice mix of international players it should be a gold mine.

 

[sufandu]

The differences are huge.

First a baseball roster is roughly twice the size of the basketball roster, which drives up front end and back in cost.

There is only one division of minor league being proposed in basketball

The G-league is looking to stream games globally (the china market is huge in this regard) but with a nice mix of international players it should be a gold mine.

Yeah. It makes sense that expanding the NBA minor leagues while contracting MLB minor leagues would make sense for each.

 

[patcuse]

Totally disagree. It’s bad basketball. Fundamentals are lost and coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It’s all one on one and players are just showcasing themselves. There are some exceptions, but it’s been bad for basketball. Playing more games doesn’t equal improvement. If you’re practicing or playing wrong, you’re not going to improve.

I would bet every d1 basketball player minus the foreigners played AAU. So your saying they shouldn’t have???

 

[UpstateSM]

Totally disagree. It’s bad basketball. Fundamentals are lost and coaching leaves a lot to be desired. It’s all one on one and players are just showcasing themselves. There are some exceptions, but it’s been bad for basketball. Playing more games doesn’t equal improvement. If you’re practicing or playing wrong, you’re not going to improve.

My point about playing more games was speaking more about the experience of AAU for the players from an enjoyment standpoint. I agree with most of what you said and I’m sure it’s made coaching at the college level harder because there has to be more attention drawn to fundamentals than there was in the past. But that’s why they get paid the big bucks, right?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The differences are huge.

First a baseball roster is roughly twice the size of the basketball roster, which drives up front end and back in cost.

There is only one division of minor league being proposed in basketball

The G-league is looking to stream games globally (the china market is huge in this regard) but with a nice mix of international players it should be a gold mine.

There is zero interest in the G league. It loses money but why would teams care when the entire G league roster earns maybe 2% of what one of their stars do.

And yes when Dame makes 50 mil on that new contract the G leaguers on 50k and the 2 ways will still collectively make around 1 mil.

No one will ever care about it. More people attend high school games. Parents of G leaguers are the only ones who are gonna watch the streams. Some players will be followed casually based on their prior college careers. The league sucks and there is a reason there is no demand for minor league basketball people prefer college end of story.

 

[Gabjon]

There is zero interest in the G league. It loses money but why would teams care when the entire G league roster earns maybe 2% of what one of their stars do.

And yes when Dame makes 50 mil on that new contract the G leaguers on 50k and the 2 ways will still collectively make around 1 mil.

No one will ever care about it. More people attend high school games. Parents of G leaguers are the only ones who are gonna watch the streams. Some players will be followed casually based on their prior college careers. The league sucks and there is a reason there is no demand for minor league basketball people prefer college end of story.

My guess is that you and I for that matter are not the target demographic. In 10 years 90% of all content will be streamed...

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

Probably even more out of control, considering there is no salary cap. I don't know the numbers and don't have the time or ambition to look them up, but I wonder what percentage of revenue each league spends on player contracts. How much money is spent/made off of the minor leagues? How many players are playing in the minors that never have a chance to even sniff the majors? How different would a NBA minor system look, if it was more developed with each team having its own team and maybe giving specific instructions on how they want certain players developed and how to distribute playing time?

No one likes minor league basketball. Lots of people like college. But why wouldn’t an NBA team field a B squad for 1 mil a year when they pay 1 player 50 under the new max salaries? Think about what a JV HS team costs in proportion to a Varsity team. But even with that the G league still loses money because no one cares about it.

Even the players don’t care about winning or want to be there no defense is paid and everyone is trying to pad their stats to get a 10 day NBA deal. And that’s with the talent being good. I’d say 50% of the guys on NBA rosters are no better than your average G leaguer. Any college hoops nut rememberers who all the G leaguers played for in NCAA.

And the NBA is star driven do you think any NBA fan without Cuse ties cared about any of the former Orangemen to play in the league the last 2 decades other than Melo all of them were the definition of plugs. Even a guy like Dion who’s done the best of anyone in the last 10 years will be remembered for gummies and not his play.

 

[sufandu]

No one likes minor league basketball. Lots of people like college. But why wouldn’t an NBA team field a B squad for 1 mil a year when they pay 1 player 50 under the new max salaries? Think about what a JV HS team costs in proportion to a Varsity team. But even with that the G league still loses money because no one cares about it.

Even the players don’t care about winning or want to be there no defense is paid and everyone is trying to pad their stats to get a 10 day NBA deal. And that’s with the talent being good. I’d say 50% of the guys on NBA rosters are no better than your average G leaguer. Any college hoops nut rememberers who all the G leaguers played for in NCAA.

And the NBA is star driven do you think any NBA fan without Cuse ties cared about any of the former Orangemen to play in the league the last 2 decades other than Melo all of them were the definition of plugs. Even a guy like Dion who’s done the best of anyone in the last 10 years will be remembered for gummies and not his play.

Everything you say is accurate. I don't think the NBA wants to further develop a minor league system figuring it will be profitable. I think they may want to do it to develop players. They know most of these players want nothing to do with college. With the draft strategy of going with young potential over older polished players, it makes sense to have a place to develop them. If each team had their own farm team, the parent organization could have greater control over how guys are coached and style of play. A fringe talent guy ball hogs in the hopes of getting noticed? Cut him. A guy won't buy into defense, assuming the franchise cares about that? Cut him. Right now, unless I'm mistaken, there are no parent teams, and, therefore, no control. It's too much of a free for all. That won't make people want to watch more, but at least franchises won't have rookies wasting away on the bench or going to a g-league team hoping he'll get the coaching he wants.

 

[SBU72]

Probably even more out of control, considering there is no salary cap. I don't know the numbers and don't have the time or ambition to look them up, but I wonder what percentage of revenue each league spends on player contracts. How much money is spent/made off of the minor leagues? How many players are playing in the minors that never have a chance to even sniff the majors? How different would a NBA minor system look, if it was more developed with each team having its own team and maybe giving specific instructions on how they want certain players developed and how to distribute playing time?

I heard a sports talk guy say that the minor league system for 1 MLB team costs less than 1 years salary of many of the free agents that have been signed of late. And remember those contracts are guaranteed. So a 30 year old who signs a ten year contract gets all the money and the last half of it would pay for all that teams minor league even when the guy is just a shell of his best years. Also that there is talk if the minors get cut back, ALL minor league players would be unpaid during spring practice getting nothing unless they make the cut.