Token starter frustration

[Lawrinson14]

It is becoming painfully obvious...starting coleman at center is going to put this team into somes holes this year that it will not be able to claw its way out of.

Offense aside, his defense is non-existant. This is especially worrisome considering the center position is the most crutial position in the zone-dominated system we have here at SU. Anyone with a pulse could have seen the difference in the team with baye or christmas at center.

I dont mean to be harsh, but im getting really tired of this token starter BS. Why put your team in a hole to start every game?

 

[rocklloyd]

We've seen jimmy use this strategy in the past. Maybe it's the signal to DC2 to keep working in practice and you can stay in game longer. It'll get more risky as competition gets better

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

JB likes Baye coming off the bench. Plus, without Jerami last night JB was constrained to start Rac at the 4 and DC at the 5. With Jerami starting, the only question is who starts at the 5? I think it will be Rac...

 

[Libero2]

If we get into a hole thats too deep for us to get out of in the first 90 seconds, we have bigger problems than we can overcome.

 

[No Hoyas]

How long have you been following SU basketball?
I'm not making fun of you, its just that this isnt a new strategy for J.B.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Well we are about 65-13 the last two years. It clearly is not working!

 

[TBCuse11]

Coleman is not good. He should not play more than 5 minutes.

Rak and Keita will rotate at center all year.

 

[orangejunkie]

I think it's a valid question. Coleman doesn't lack for effort but the results have been mediocre thus far. He had one really nice game in Canada. Last night was disappointing on both the offensive and defensive end. I thought Keita and Christmas both looked good. Admittedly, the "sample size" is small but at some point if this trend continues it should impact playing time. I have never been a huge fan of Keita's game but have to admit that he has really stepped up his rebounding and his offense has shown some improvements as well.

 

[HarrisonJBounel]

Hopefully DC2 has a breakout game much like Cooney. He has the potential. He needs a game where he can get into a groove and build his confidence. I think we all want that to happen.

 

[rocklloyd]

Dc2's minutes will be limited as long as keeps pulling the ball down to his knees after he catches it.

 

[zhanjuzi]

It is becoming painfully obvious...starting coleman at center is going to put this team into somes holes this year that it will not be able to claw its way out of.

Offense aside, his defense is non-existant. This is especially worrisome considering the center position is the most crutial position in the zone-dominated system we have here at SU. Anyone with a pulse could have seen the difference in the team with baye or christmas at center.

I dont mean to be harsh, but im getting really tired of this token starter BS. Why put your team in a hole to start every game?

dont worry .. it won't last wh&n gam&s g&t rally important (sorry, my kyboart is ^kt)

 

[two3zone]

Hopefully DC2 has a breakout game much like Cooney. He has the potential. He needs a game where he can get into a groove and build his confidence. I think we all want that to happen.

This is what I don't understand, who says he had potential? He's a big guy but there doesn't seem to be one skill that he is above average on. As a matter of fact I would say he is far below average at every aspect of the game. Every big that we've had who was disappointing showed SOMETHING or some sort of potential. I have not seen one thing from DC2. I rarely throw the bust tag on somebody as young as him and so early in his career, but I don't see it getting better for him here. He should probably transfer after this year because Chin will probably get BMK's minutes next year if Coleman doesn't show anything. I hope I eat crow on this, but I have zero faith at him at this point.


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[General20]

It is becoming painfully obvious...starting coleman at center is going to put this team into somes holes this year that it will not be able to claw its way out of.

Offense aside, his defense is non-existant. This is especially worrisome considering the center position is the most crutial position in the zone-dominated system we have here at SU. Anyone with a pulse could have seen the difference in the team with baye or christmas at center.

I dont mean to be harsh, but im getting really tired of this token starter BS. Why put your team in a hole to start every game?

I don't understand your logic. The five best players can't play the entire game. Why is it bad to have a back up caliber player on the court at the start of the games but not bad at other times?

 

[Sgt Cuse]

I totally disagree with the OP. I love the token starter, hope JB continues to use it. This year is DC2. IMO, this is a great move.

By starting DC2, JB is using substitution patterns that are not solely predicated on foul levels. JB is making a conscious and almost public statement that he is developing DC2. Great move. I agree with JB's assessment of potential. Unlike two3zone and others, I think DC2 oozes potential. Once SU gets an offensive post game back, the team will be much more dangerous, at another level.

If you don't start DC2 it makes it more difficult to get him time. There is no guarantee that your best 5 will start strong, and if that happens how would you propose to get DC2 time? Who would want to put in a lesser player when you are down, no one. And if you are up, would you really want to break up the run by putting in a sub.

This has been done the last 3 years, how many games do you think it has cost us?

What is not so painfully obvious, are the benefits this provides. Things like team chemistry and defensive intensity are hard to quantify, but IMO have improved, in part, because of this new strategy. It is also hard to isolate the factors but the chosen tokens, Fab and Rak have shown immense improvement. If DC2 can show this kind of improvement in the post, SU will be incredibly dangerous. Well worth the risk, IMO.

 

[bozophobe]

I'm also concerned about DC's free throw shooting. I gave him a pass during the exhibitions for mindlessly flicking up quick, unfocused three throws. But last night he did the same twice in a row at a time other than the very beginning of the game, and when SU was down quite a bit. Hopefully it's just early season mental rust - he's looked polished at times, too.

 

[two3zone]

I totally disagree with the OP. I love the token starter, hope JB continues to use it. This year is DC2. IMO, this is a great move.

By starting DC2, JB is using substitution patterns that are not solely predicated on foul levels. JB is making a conscious and almost public statement that he is developing DC2. Great move. I agree with JB's assessment of potential. Unlike two3zone and others, I think DC2 oozes potential. Once SU gets an offensive post game back, the team will be much more dangerous, at another level.

If you don't start DC2 it makes it more difficult to get him time. There is no guarantee that your best 5 will start strong, and if that happens how would you propose to get DC2 time? Who would want to put in a lesser player when you are down, no one. And if you are up, would you really want to break up the run by putting in a sub.

This has been done the last 3 years, how many games do you think it has cost us?

What is not so painfully obvious, are the benefits this provides. Things like team chemistry and defensive intensity are hard to quantify, but IMO have improved, in part, because of this new strategy. It is also hard to isolate the factors but the chosen tokens, Fab and Rak have shown immense improvement. If DC2 can show this kind of improvement in the post, SU will be incredibly dangerous. Well worth the risk, IMO.

Where does he ooze potential? I'm not being bratty but I just want to see where people see it? I'm not an expert by any means but I watch a ton of basketball and have been following SU basketball for over 25 years and just do not see anything from this kid. I keep hearing the word potential describing him but where is it being shown?


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[two3zone]

I don't understand your logic. The five best players can't play the entire game. Why is it bad to have a back up caliber player on the court at the start of the games but not bad at other times?

We have 2 guys who can play the 5 outside of DC2, I'd rather see BMK and Rak get 25 minutes each with Rak getting some at the 4 obviously and Grant getting more minutes. It's unfortunate that DC is going to be getting some time that Grant or even Roberson could be getting.


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[orangefan13]

Hopefully DC2 has a breakout game much like Cooney. He has the potential. He needs a game where he can get into a groove and build his confidence. I think we all want that to happen.

If that happens we will be ranked number one jumping a team that hasn't lost.
We are already loaded.

 

[longislandcuse]

Well we are about 65-13 the last two years. It clearly is not working!

This response is so annoying. Yes, you can question one of the greatest basketball coaches ever. There's not much to question him about but the whole token starter thing is one.

 

[br801]

This is what I don't understand, who says he had potential? He's a big guy but there doesn't seem to be one skill that he is above average on. As a matter of fact I would say he is far below average at every aspect of the game. Every big that we've had who was disappointing showed SOMETHING or some sort of potential. I have not seen one thing from DC2. I rarely throw the bust tag on somebody as young as him and so early in his career, but I don't see it getting better for him here. He should probably transfer after this year because Chin will probably get BMK's minutes next year if Coleman doesn't show anything. I hope I eat crow on this, but I have zero faith at him at this point.

By virtue of his size and instincts, he's probably the best rebounder on the team right now, and will only get better. But I suppose that doesn't count for anything.

 

[two3zone]

By virtue of his size and instincts, he's probably the best rebounder on the team right now, and will only get better. But I suppose that doesn't count for anything.

You mean the instincts of putting the ball on the floor when he dwarfs every player on the court? From what I've seen from BMK in the exhibitions and this game he looks to be the best rebounder and it's not close. Being a great rebounder or passable rebounder playing the 5 in the zone doesn't make you ooze potential.


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[br801]

You mean the instincts of putting the ball on the floor when he dwarfs every player on the court? From what I've seen from BMK in the exhibitions and this game he looks to be the best rebounder and it's not close. Being a great rebounder or passable rebounder playing the 5 in the zone doesn't make you ooze potential.

You apparently have made your mind up about Coleman and will see what you want to see. That's fine, but I happen to disagree. I also prefer to let the season play out and allow players to develop, and am not a big fan of kneejerk reactions after (or worse, during) every game. As for BMK, he's a superior defensive player in the back of the zone, but he is not a good rebounder.

 

[pfister1]

This is what I don't understand, who says he had potential? He's a big guy but there doesn't seem to be one skill that he is above average on. As a matter of fact I would say he is far below average at every aspect of the game. Every big that we've had who was disappointing showed SOMETHING or some sort of potential. I have not seen one thing from DC2. I rarely throw the bust tag on somebody as young as him and so early in his career, but I don't see it getting better for him here. He should probably transfer after this year because Chin will probably get BMK's minutes next year if Coleman doesn't show anything. I hope I eat crow on this, but I have zero faith at him at this point.

Obviously Jim Boeheim says he has potential!! If JB didn't believe he had the potential to be a very significant contributor here at some point, he wouldn't have give him the token starter role. As long as JB is still investing effort in him and giving him minutes, to say nothing of the token starter role, he isn't a bust and it is way too early to force him out the door.

If bust = he didn't come in a set the world on fire right off the bat, then I guess you are right.

But to me, bust = won't ever contribute or the team would be better served if we gave his roster spot and scholarship to someone else.

We have 2 other serviceable centers, yet JB is still finding minutes for him should tell you all you need to know about what the coaching staff thinks of his potential.

 

[Gabjon]

I totally disagree with the OP. I love the token starter, hope JB continues to use it. This year is DC2. IMO, this is a great move.

By starting DC2, JB is using substitution patterns that are not solely predicated on foul levels. JB is making a conscious and almost public statement that he is developing DC2. Great move. I agree with JB's assessment of potential. Unlike two3zone and others, I think DC2 oozes potential. Once SU gets an offensive post game back, the team will be much more dangerous, at another level.

If you don't start DC2 it makes it more difficult to get him time. There is no guarantee that your best 5 will start strong, and if that happens how would you propose to get DC2 time? Who would want to put in a lesser player when you are down, no one. And if you are up, would you really want to break up the run by putting in a sub.

This has been done the last 3 years, how many games do you think it has cost us?

What is not so painfully obvious, are the benefits this provides. Things like team chemistry and defensive intensity are hard to quantify, but IMO have improved, in part, because of this new strategy. It is also hard to isolate the factors but the chosen tokens, Fab and Rak have shown immense improvement. If DC2 can show this kind of improvement in the post, SU will be incredibly dangerous. Well worth the risk, IMO.

I completely agree well not completely. I'm not convinced of DC2 talent, but I love the strategy by JB. The funny thing is JB has been criticized for not playing or developing his bench for years and now he has created a system to do just that and he is being ripped for it! You can't have it both ways! Starting DC2 gives the team the maximum amount of time to recover from a hole and it gives JB game film that the he can use as a teaching tool to help develop DC2.

 

[patcuse]

26 points and 7 rebounds in 27 mini played might be considered potential