Too early to pass judgements on Coleman

[OttoMets]

I think we pretty much know it, because JB said exactly the same sentence about Chukwu. I don't think he would say it about Coleman in the first place, but for him to say exactly the same thing about two different players in exactly the same words seems to prove it was a mistake by the writer.

I would guess you're right

 

[Spock344]

The fact that it's "too early to pass judgement" on 23yr old, Sr. DaJuan is a reason in itself to pass judgement on him.

Exactly. Now do I hope DC does well? Absolutely. But, injury or no injury, he lacks in most every facet, unless he's playing smaller, weaker players. Not trying to dump on the kid, but at this point, ya either have it, or ya don't... and with him it's the latter. All this talk of giving DC time to develop is nice if you wanna believe it, but how come Lydon doesn't need all this time to develop as a freshman from day 1? Only so many mulligans you can give a kid -- I mean, it's not like college is the first time he picked up a basketball.

Lydon's court awareness is vastly better than DC's. Why can't DC seal off his defender, catch on the low-post, back him down, give some pump fakes, spin and make a simple move to score? In all the practices and games, you're telling me he still doesn't have this in his arsenal? What exactly does he do in practice? There's an "it" factor that DC will never have, unfortunately. He was over-hyped outta HS. All the game-time he sees this season likely won't matter, cuz I've accepted that we'll see the same DC game-in, game-out. He's a liability on defense, and a zero on offense.

Before tip-off, maybe someone should go into the locker room, push DC around, talk some trash, and try to light a fire under his rear to play motivated and pissed off on the court.

Prove me wrong, DC!

 

[pearl31]

Some of the wisdom on display in this thread is breathtaking. We're talking, like, syracuse.com swing-for-the-fences nuggets of utter genius.

 

[br801]

Exactly. Now do I hope DC does well? Absolutely. But, injury or no injury, he lacks in most every facet, unless he's playing smaller, weaker players. Not trying to dump on the kid, but at this point, ya either have it, or ya don't... and with him it's the latter. All this talk of giving DC time to develop is nice if you wanna believe it, but how come Lydon doesn't need all this time to develop as a freshman from day 1? Only so many mulligans you can give a kid -- I mean, it's not like college is the first time he picked up a basketball.

Lydon's court awareness is vastly better than DC's. Why can't DC seal off his defender, catch on the low-post, back him down, give some pump fakes, spin and make a simple move to score? In all the practices and games, you're telling me he still doesn't have this in his arsenal? What exactly does he do in practice? There's an "it" factor that DC will never have, unfortunately. He was over-hyped outta HS. All the game-time he sees this season likely won't matter, cuz I've accepted that we'll see the same DC game-in, game-out. He's a liability on defense, and a zero on offense.

Before tip-off, maybe someone should go into the locker room, push DC around, talk some trash, and try to light a fire under his rear to play motivated and pissed off on the court.

Prove me wrong, DC!

If you were going for a parody of a bad post you nailed it.

 

[two3zone]

If you were going for a parody of a bad post you nailed it.

How was that a bad post? He had an opinion that by all means is correct and he did it respectfully. Not every player we have is up to snuff and he's calling it out, what's wrong with that? Does every opinion posted on this forum have to be a cream puff cheerleading ra ra we're the best post? You can support your team while having an opinion that isn't popular. I don't think anybody wants this team to lose any games and roots just as hard as somebody who is blind to the fact that this team isn't perfect. Shame on you.

 

[br801]

How was that a bad post? He had an opinion that by all means is correct and he did it respectfully. Not every player we have is up to snuff and he's calling it out, what's wrong with that? Does every opinion posted on this forum have to be a cream puff cheerleading ra ra we're the best post? You can support your team while having an opinion that isn't popular. I don't think anybody wants this team to lose any games and roots just as hard as somebody who is blind to the fact that this team isn't perfect. Shame on you.

Shame on me for commenting on a wildly over-the-top post likely intended to rile people up? That's funny.

There are ways to reasonably discuss and debate issues surrounding the team (and most on this board are capable of doing so) but that approach isn't one of them.

 

[two3zone]

Shame on me for commenting on wildly over-the-top post likely intended to rile people up? That's funny.

There are ways to reasonably discuss and debate issues surrounding the team (and many on this board do so) but that approach isn't one of them.

How is it over the top? You couldn't even respond to it with facts debunking what he said, all you did was try to publicly embarrass him when you have literally zero rebuttal.

Instead of shaming him, why not correct him where you believe he is wrong?

 

[tbonezone]

love coleman. it takes a ton of dedication to work thru the injury issues he's had. but if he's thinking NBA at all he's gotta triumph once more. and by TRIUMPH i mean LAY IT ON THE LINE ! full speed and don't waste no precious time.

 

[br801]

How is it over the top? You couldn't even respond to it with facts debunking what he said, all you did was try to publicly embarrass him when you have literally zero rebuttal.

Instead of shaming him, why not correct him where you believe he is wrong?

Well the poster assailed the work ethic and abilities of a kid who has essentially spent the last two years rehabbing in an effort to get back on the court and contribute to his team.

And I'm not sure how it's possible to publicly embarrass someone on an anonymous message board.

 

[pearl31]

How was that a bad post? He had an opinion that by all means is correct and he did it respectfully. Not every player we have is up to snuff and he's calling it out, what's wrong with that? Does every opinion posted on this forum have to be a cream puff cheerleading ra ra we're the best post? You can support your team while having an opinion that isn't popular. I don't think anybody wants this team to lose any games and roots just as hard as somebody who is blind to the fact that this team isn't perfect. Shame on you.

oh gawd this is just rich

 

[two3zone]

Well the poster assailed the work ethic and abilities of a kid who has essentially spent the last two years rehabbing in an effort to get back on the court and contribute to his team.

And I'm not sure how it's possible to publicly embarrass someone on an anonymous message board.

Where did he mention his work ethic? He's asking legit questions about DC, ones that have been asked 1000 times around here. Did you read what he wrote? The only attack in this thread is your response to him.

Did DC rehab to get back, sure. But before his rehab all of this stuff was true, and it hasn't changed. If it hasn't changed yet, why would it? His injury has nothing to do with his defensive positioning, bringing the ball down before his layup attempts, his boxing players out for rebounds. Yes, DC's game in HS was bullying players and scoring at ease against much smaller opponents. If you have something to the contrary to what I'm saying or the poster did, why not respond with something debunking it?

Exactly. Now do I hope DC does well? Absolutely. But, injury or no injury, he lacks in most every facet, unless he's playing smaller, weaker players. Not trying to dump on the kid, but at this point, ya either have it, or ya don't... and with him it's the latter. All this talk of giving DC time to develop is nice if you wanna believe it, but how come Lydon doesn't need all this time to develop as a freshman from day 1? Only so many mulligans you can give a kid -- I mean, it's not like college is the first time he picked up a basketball.

Lydon's court awareness is vastly better than DC's. Why can't DC seal off his defender, catch on the low-post, back him down, give some pump fakes, spin and make a simple move to score? In all the practices and games, you're telling me he still doesn't have this in his arsenal? What exactly does he do in practice? There's an "it" factor that DC will never have, unfortunately. He was over-hyped outta HS. All the game-time he sees this season likely won't matter, cuz I've accepted that we'll see the same DC game-in, game-out. He's a liability on defense, and a zero on offense.

Before tip-off, maybe someone should go into the locker room, push DC around, talk some trash, and try to light a fire under his rear to play motivated and pissed off on the court.

Prove me wrong, DC!

 

[two3zone]

oh gawd this is just rich

So you can't be a fan of a team and root for them hard and still have criticisms? Hell, not one person on this board is as critical as the head coach of our team.

 

[orangefan13]

love coleman. it takes a ton of dedication to work thru the injury issues he's had. but if he's thinking NBA at all he's gotta triumph once more. and by TRIUMPH i mean LAY IT ON THE LINE ! full speed and don't waste no precious time.

Coleman said he thinks hes a month away still from recovering to the speed of the game. I am fine with that.

 

[pearl31]

So you can't be a fan of a team and root for them hard and still have criticisms? Hell, not one person on this board is as critical as the head coach of our team.

Maybe you should read post #27 again.

And why does calling out asinine posts = telling people they can't be critical of the team?

 

[br801]

Maybe you should read post #27 again.

And why does calling out asinine posts = telling people they can't be critical of the team?

Must be a full moon tonight.

 

[orangefan13]

So you can't be a fan of a team and root for them hard and still have criticisms? Hell, not one person on this board is as critical as the head coach of our team.

Yes but its good for the fans to have alittle faith to.
Faith teams can get better, and are better then they appear.

If we were this critical back in 12-13 and it actually changed the chemistry of the team, no way we have a shot at the final four. Or are a darkhorse for the title. And we were.

We are playing the top 7 on the road this year we do that in any other conference in america and we are probably penciled in the tournament preseason.

 

[two3zone]

Maybe you should read post #27 again.

And why does calling out asinine posts = telling people they can't be critical of the team?

How was saying that essentially Coleman's skills in HS has not translated to division 1 basketball = asinine?

 

[Cusefan0307]

I think people forget that Rak averaged 4 and 4 for his career before last year. I'm not say Rak and DC are similar players, but I think its unfair to think he'd come in and average 10 and 7 after not playing for 2 years.

I recall a lot of people saying the same things about Christmas even early last year.

 

[OttoMets]

I think people forget that Rak averaged 4 and 4 for his career before last year. I'm not say Rak and DC are similar players, but I think its unfair to think he'd come in and average 10 and 7 after not playing for 2 years.

I recall a lot of people saying the same things about Christmas even early last year.

People disagreed with me then and might do so now, but it was apparent that Christmas had certain strong fundamentals that Coleman's never demonstrated. For starters, comfort around the block without resorting to a dribble and ability to keep the ball high without getting it blocked or stolen by little guys.

At this stage, the most realistic way Coleman becomes a 10/7 guy goes a little like this:
1) Excellent luck with health - he's done a terrific job working hard and keeping the weight off but he needs his knees to cooperate;
2) Play just enough credible defense to stay on the court (it's understandable that he's rusty, but he's never been good at this; game experience can only help);
3) Get fouled. A lot. Take every free throw opportunity and turn it into points;
4) Rebound.

It'd help if he could score in the post, but honestly - even the most optimistic fan can't think that a 23-year-old kid who's played basketball at the highest level for a decade will suddenly flick a switch and quit bringing the ball below his waist. It's always going to be a chore for him to score in traffic. Just be a threat out there and make the free throws.

 

[Cusefan0307]

People disagreed with me then and might do so now, but it was apparent that Christmas had certain strong fundamentals that Coleman's never demonstrated. For starters, comfort around the block without resorting to a dribble and ability to keep the ball high without getting it blocked or stolen by little guys.

At this stage, the most realistic way Coleman becomes a 10/7 guy goes a little like this:
1) Excellent luck with health - he's done a terrific job working hard and keeping the weight off but he needs his knees to cooperate;
2) Play just enough credible defense to stay on the court (it's understandable that he's rusty, but he's never been good at this; game experience can only help);
3) Get fouled. A lot. Take every free throw opportunity and turn it into points;
4) Rebound.

It'd help if he could score in the post, but honestly - even the most optimistic fan can't think that a 23-year-old kid who's played basketball at the highest level for a decade will suddenly flick a switch and quit bringing the ball below his waist. It's always going to be a chore for him to score in traffic. Just be a threat out there and make the free throws.

Not disagreeing totally with the above, but I do think Coleman has better natural post skills, whereas Christmas had to be built into that. I'm not going to discount him just yet because he has shown a strong work ethic just to get back on the court. Christmas obviously more athletic.

 

[pearl31]

People disagreed with me then and might do so now, but it was apparent that Christmas had certain strong fundamentals that Coleman's never demonstrated. For starters, comfort around the block without resorting to a dribble and ability to keep the ball high without getting it blocked or stolen by little guys.

At this stage, the most realistic way Coleman becomes a 10/7 guy goes a little like this:
1) Excellent luck with health - he's done a terrific job working hard and keeping the weight off but he needs his knees to cooperate;
2) Play just enough credible defense to stay on the court (it's understandable that he's rusty, but he's never been good at this; game experience can only help);
3) Get fouled. A lot. Take every free throw opportunity and turn it into points;
4) Rebound.

It'd help if he could score in the post, but honestly - even the most optimistic fan can't think that a 23-year-old kid who's played basketball at the highest level for a decade will suddenly flick a switch and quit bringing the ball below his waist. It's always going to be a chore for him to score in traffic. Just be a threat out there and make the free throws.

Good points, and I don't think it's that much of a stretch that he'll at least round into a center that provides 20-25 min with adequate defense, solid rebounding and the occasional set play conversion (like the one to start the 2nd half v. Bonnies). That's all I'm hoping for DC this year.

 

[Knicks411]

Not disagreeing totally with the above, but I do think Coleman has better natural post skills, whereas Christmas had to be built into that. I'm not going to discount him just yet because he has shown a strong work ethic just to get back on the court. Christmas obviously more athletic.

Does he? I just feel like we've never seen it. The bringing the ball down thing is just a perfect example of it. He does it just about every time he has the ball.

Is anyone tracking +- for the players this year? I feel like we've played really poorly with Coleman on the floor in the first 2 games

 

[Yegorange]

Yeah, his habit of bringing the ball down is puzzling. You'd think by now it should've been drilled out of his head.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Does he? I just feel like we've never seen it. The bringing the ball down thing is just a perfect example of it. He does it just about every time he has the ball.

Is anyone tracking +- for the players this year? I feel like we've played really poorly with Coleman on the floor in the first 2 games

Discounting bringing the ball down, I do think his footwork is good. Hard to break that habit when you can't practice for 2 years.

His plus/minus is probably not good. I'd imagine Lydon has the highest on the team so far.

 

[NineOneSeven]

This thread is wild. Coleman has better natural post skills than Rakeem .

Coleman seems like a great guy-- I know people who were friends with him-- and I certainly feel for him and all of his injury concerns. It sucks. That said, I think he was overrated coming out of high school. He had a phenomenal career at JD playing against ehh competition. I've said for three years, he's undersized for a center in D1 basketball. He needs to model his game off of Zach Randolph. Nobody is better at using his body and the rime and keeping the ball high. The reason Coleman puts the ball down so often is because he's trying to carve space against more athletic/longer/taller players and that leads to rushed shots.

The problem is that given the issues, it's really impossible to know "what could have been", if anything. I'm hoping he is able to work his way fully back to 100%, both with regards to health and game speed, just to give us something, which I don't expect will be much. There is still time and I have some hope at least.

We will massively miss Rakeem this year, to beat that dead horse again.