Too Much Scoop | Page 3 | Syracusefan.com

Too Much Scoop

Good point. And instead of convincing us why Southerland stinks and Scoop stinks, why not convince us why your alternative is so much better?

I'm not saying that either player stinks.

I am saying we have an all star lineup: Melo, CJ, KJo, Dion, Triche.

When it really counts, those guys all ought to play 3o minutes (Melo 25 because of fouls) in order to maximize our championship potential. Giving Jardine 30 minutes at the point really limits our upside, so does giving JSouth a lot of shots.

And why is your agenda always negative?...Tell you what, if you're such a whiz with sports data, tell us who is doing well once in awhile. If you have expertise, use it for good on occasion. Not just to bash.

I regularly say that Melo and Dion are 1st round talents, BT is a star pg, Kjo is one of the best shooters in the country, and I am super gay for CJ. It's not all negative man.
 
Point guards are to basketball offenses, as quarterbacks are to football offenses: if the offense stinks, it's usually because the guy in charge of spreading the ball isn't doing a great job. Last night, our offense stunk for almost the whole game, because Scoop was pounding the rock too much and because Scoop, once again, led the team in wasted possessions (11, tied with KJ) and wasted seconds on the shot clock (didn't add them up yet, but there were a ton).

We are fortunate, however, that a solid percentage of Scoop's gunner shots went through the hoop.

If Scoop's out-of-sync, gunner three doesn't fall, he ends up with this line: 13 points, 5-10, 7 assists, 2 missed free throws, 4 turnovers, 4 steals, and we win by 1, at home, against a team we ought to punish. But Scoop's wild three fell, so his stat line was actually very solid (16,7, 4, 4, 60% shooting).

Still, Scoop's weaknesses were on full display last night. Down the stretch, Scoop took several shots early in the shot clock, without running any offense. Last night they fell, so Scoop is a "hero." But we have a large enough sample size to know that usually, Scoop's wild, early-shot clock gunner threes do not fall often enough to take us to the championship.

Posters will say that we "needed" Scoop last night: and maybe we did. JB seemed to think so, and he is uaually correct. I loved the play when Scoop got the ball late in the shot clock, and then made a runner going to the hoop. Even if he missed that shot, an offensive board was likely. I loved how Scoop took charge late in the shot clock, and came up onions, making a big score. In that one play, Scoop showed exactly the skill that many of his fans praise him for. But such smart play is the exception, unfortunately, not the rule. Besides that one late-shot clock runner, most of Scoop's shot selection was questionable despite the friendly rim.

Waiters getting 14 minutes is a disaster. That should never happen. Nonsense about "riding the hot hand" is simply that: nonsense. Championship caliber teams don't ride the hot hand. And Scoop wasn't even that hot: he was one bad bounce from having a so-so 5-for-10 shooting night. IMO, if Scoop had been playing a lesser role as backup guard, and our first round NBA talent (Dion) had been playing the two, bumping our star point guard (BT) to his proper position: we never would have let the Gators hang around.

I know Waiters was 1-for-8, and I know that JB felt that Dion did a poor job defending a deep three. I am also aware that Scoop came up with 4 steals, two of which were huge within the context of the game. But Waiters is an amazing defender, better than Scoop by a mile. If Florida was so sloppy that Scoop got 4 steals, Waiters would have likely given Florida's tiny guards even more trouble. No one drives by Waiters, most everyone drives by Scoop. Even against a perimeter shooting team that avoids dribble drives, Waiters is simply too good to sit for Scoop: 1-for-8 notwithstanding.

If Waiters plays 25+ minutes, the context of the game would have changed, as our NBA athletes would dominate those tiny Florida college guards all day (and although Beal isn't tiny, he is so overrated it's crazy). Only by giving Scoop 31 minutes of running our offense, could we get ourselves in a position where we needed Scoop's late gunner shots to help us. A player of Scoop's talents would be fine for a prominent role on a team like Florida, but our championship caliber team cannot afford to bench Waiters and play Triche out of position simply to accommodate Scoop.

Our offense, once again, looked substantially less efficient than championship caliber. On a neutral floor we likely win that game by a point or two, and in Florida we likely lose. That is unacceptable, because as others have noted, Florida is not a legit top 10 team (even with their stretch 4 Murphy). If we continue to give Scoop 31 minutes in big spots, I feel we are not going to win the championship.

Triche is our point guard. We look soooo much better with Triche running the half court offense. Not only does Triche make the quicker and more responsible passes, but he also gets to the line when he runs the point. Scoop is a liability at the line, he is too willing to shoot early in the clock, and makes too many boneheaded plays.

Scoop always gets "assists" because the Cuse is an amazing transition team. Many of Scoop's assists are easy transitions buckets where he simply executes the three man weave or some other quick, easy offense. Any of our guards could rack up assists playing the designated point guad spot. The only reason Triche didn't pile up assists his frosh year, is because Rautins actually played point man on so many of our transition breaks. Scoop very, very rarely creates offense for others in the half court: and it hurt us badly for most of the Florida game.

Anyway, Scoop bleeds Orange. I have 100% confidence that Scoop would be supporting the Cuse right now, even if he had already moved on. I love how he is handling Dion's emergence. I love that he made shots last night: I just don't think JB is doing us a favor by giving Dion's minutes to Scoop, and our team needs Triche to play all of his minutes. It's impossible not to enjoy Scoop being Scoop though. On soooo many other Syracuse teams, Scoop would be my favorite player. But when we run Dion, Triche, CJ, Melo, and KJ, it is awfully hard to find 31 minutes for Scoopball.

Great game, great guy, great Cuse fan, but IMO, we are hurting our championship odds to give Scoop more minutes, touches, shots, chances to make a play, possessions, shot clock seconds, etc than Waiters.
awful post, you continue to post crap that sucks.
 
I'm not saying that either player stinks.

I am saying we have an all star lineup: Melo, CJ, KJo, Dion, Triche.

When it really counts, those guys all ought to play 3o minutes (Melo 25 because of fouls) in order to maximize our championship potential. Giving Jardine 30 minutes at the point really limits our upside, so does giving JSouth a lot of shots.

I regularly say that Melo and Dion are 1st round talents, BT is a star pg, Kjo is one of the best shooters in the country, and I am super gay for CJ. It's not all negative man.

Ok. Got ya. I don't catch every post. But all I've seen from you lately is long ass posts about why JS is overrated and Scoop shouldn't play as much. Then I'm hearing you are doing the same to Nassib on Fball board.

And that weird ass post where you quoted a bunch of old posts. Don't be the guy at the cocktail party everybody rolls their eyes when they get cornered by.

I respect that you know a lot about sports stats. Though I find your "what if Scoop missed that 3?" theorem borderline ed, I agree, we probly aint gonna win if our plan is for Scoop to bail us out. Its not the plan. We sat him in NYC. JB knows what he's doing. Like someone said, "What if K. Smart missed that J?" He didn't.

I think Dion is a star too. But he's raw. And handing him the keys ain't winning us a title either. Somehwere in the middle is our answer. And JB will find it. Dion was flat out terrible against Florida. He reminds me of JR Rider. He could drop 40. He could go 1-12. He might be crazy. He's cocky. And I love the kid. But JB knows how to manage him. Knew to break his ass last year in order to get more out of him this year. But he is still a loose cannon. He was wild against EMU. Way wilder against Fla. He's a sick athlete. But old Dion is still there, we gotta keep him grounded. He's Kemba one second and DeShawn the next. Your stats don't calculate how to manage egos or people. That's a big part of coaching. Dion is a handful.

Sometimes analysis isn't about numbers. And you seriously tried to skew the numbers for Scoop with "what if he missed". I don't know jack stuff about statistical analysis, linear regression or even how to multiply fractions. I was a history major. There is way more to coaching than efficiency and other stats.

Humor me. Next time you do a long ass post, make it positive. Not to refute or critique. I think you got a rep here guy. My impression is that while you're a big fan, you just like to stir the pot and we all play your game. This will be it for me.
 
I don't this the original post was phrased correctly, but I agree with the intent. It's not that we should have played Scoop less vs Florida it's that Scoop SHOULD NOT start. Dion should have started, went 1-8 like he did and Scoop would've came off the bench and delivered as he did. When Dion is having a bad night, we bring in Scoop - that's our depth at play.

Dion however should absolutely start every game as SG with Triche at point. We are a better team with that lineup (minus days where one of these two guys sucks and then we bring in Scoop). I'm not hating on Scoop but this is a fact. Triche and Dion is a better starting lineup. CJ should start too btw. We should be running away from teams like VTech and Stanford right out of the gate. And not get handicapped by having two of out top players watch from the bench.

But I guess Boeheim knows best. We'll see how we do in BE :cool:
 
I don't this the original post was phrased correctly, but I agree with the intent. It's not that we should have played Scoop less vs Florida it's that Scoop SHOULD NOT start. Dion should have started, went 1-8 like he did and Scoop would've came off the bench and delivered as he did. When Dion is having a bad night, we bring in Scoop - that's our depth at play.

Dion however should absolutely start every game as SG with Triche at point. We are a better team with that lineup (minus days where one of these two guys sucks and then we bring in Scoop). I'm not hating on Scoop but this is a fact. Triche and Dion is a better starting lineup. CJ should start too btw. We should be running away from teams like VTech and Stanford right out of the gate. And not get handicapped by having two of out top players watch from the bench.

But I guess Boeheim knows best. We'll see how we do in BE :cool:

It really doesn't matter who starts. Xmas played 2 minutes. Dion and BT closed both games in the garden. Who finishes matters more.
 
I think Dion is a star too. But he's raw. And handing him the keys ain't winning us a title either. Somehwere in the middle is our answer. And JB will find it. Dion was flat out terrible against Florida. He reminds me of JR Rider. He could drop 40. He could go 1-12. He might be crazy. He's cocky. And I love the kid. But JB knows how to manage him. Knew to break his ass last year in order to get more out of him this year. But he is still a loose cannon. He was wild against EMU. Way wilder against Fla. He's a sick athlete. But old Dion is still there, we gotta keep him grounded. He's Kemba one second and DeShawn the next. Your stats don't calculate how to manage egos or people. That's a big part of coaching. Dion is a handful.

Good post; the highlighted part is something that gets overlooked here too often. With talented but inconsistent players, we're not going all-in on any of these guys as far as playing time goes. Some mix of the three guards is our best option (as Boeheim has to remind the press after every game).

Guys who don't play well are going to sit. Hopefully we don't have too many games in which everyone plays badly. On Friday, one guard played badly, he sat, and we won. That strikes me as a positive.

I suppose one could argue that if he'd doubled his 14 minutes, taking minutes from the point guard who had the best stat line on the team in the process, he'd have improved upon his numbers. One could also argue that he was wild and forcing things and would've continued his bad game in increased minutes. Neither really matters; basketball isn't a game of what-if.
 
ill still take posts like this any day of the wk instead of reading about the BF situation
 
ill still take posts like this any day of the wk instead of reading about the BF situation

Having the second board has been very nice. Whenever I need my Laurie Fine fix I can just go over there without having to worry about basketball any more. ;)
 
Having the second board has been very nice. Whenever I need my Laurie Fine fix I can just go over there without having to worry about basketball any more. ;)
and lets be honest, who doesnt need a laurie fine fix every once in awhile? just ask past players
 
But, if JB is simply using Scoop to lock up a nice regular season win, while JB knows to live or die with Triche/Waiters when it really matters, then I am fine with last night, and wouldn't want to diminish another onions performance for Scoop.

The biggest game we have played so far -- JB knows to live or die with Scoop/Triche when it really matters. There have been other occasions when he has given a seat to Scoop or Triche when it really matters. (Examples with Triche are last year in MSG versus UConn; and against Marquette.) Unlike your unshakable confidence in the Triche/Waiters combo, JB seems to be adjusting based on what he sees in game situations and is working to develop the guard combinations. We have seen that Dion can get on a bad streak; Brandon can disappear or get down on himself or he can be streaky good. I am good with JB's approach -- keep everyone engaged, fit his guys to the situations.
 
Wasn't Dion like 1-8 in the game with no FT? What kind of stats say he should have played over the guy who won us the game.
 
The biggest game we have played so far -- JB knows to live or die with Scoop/Triche when it really matters. There have been other occasions when he has given a seat to Scoop or Triche when it really matters. (Examples with Triche are last year in MSG versus UConn; and against Marquette.) Unlike your unshakable confidence in the Triche/Waiters combo, JB seems to be adjusting based on what he sees in game situations and is working to develop the guard combinations. We have seen that Dion can get on a bad streak; Brandon can disappear or get down on himself or he can be streaky good. I am good with JB's approach -- keep everyone engaged, fit his guys to the situations.
Several of us have given virtually the same opinion. Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that is doesn't matter who starts or even who finishes as long as we are winning?
Who cares who starts? Or if they do, they are playing a ME game instead of a WE game. It's all about winning and I'll put my money on JB everytime and be way ahead at the end of the year.
 
If I had a bigger schwarz I would be in the porn business. Alas I am not...

Give me a break...Scoop was great. I love that we are playing a what if game now after top 10 wins.

Jesus...
If I'm not mistaken I believe schvantz is the appropriate vernacular in this situation.
 
or perhaps Schintzius. manscaped with a mullet. short up top but long on the balls.
 
I regularly say that Melo and Dion are 1st round talents, BT is a star pg, Kjo is one of the best shooters in the country, and I am super gay for CJ. It's not all negative man.

What makes you think that? You are a "stat" guy. What makes you think BT is a decent PG let alone a star?
 

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