Top 10 PGs all-time per ESPN

[RandygoCuse]

they're doing the top shooting guards now. Any chance Bing makes it? So far, they have Earl Monroe (the other Pearl ), Ray Allen, and Reggie Miller. You figure the top five is going to be Jordan, Kobe, West, Wade, and most likely Drexler. That leaves Bing to compete with guys like Bill Sharman, Sam Jones, and Joe Dumars. It's a shame Bing didn't win more, maybe he could've bumped off Monroe.

 

[Eric15]

they're doing the top shooting guards now. Any chance Bing makes it? So far, they have Earl Monroe (the other Pearl ), Ray Allen, and Reggie Miller. You figure the top five is going to be Jordan, Kobe, West, Wade, and most likely Drexler. That leaves Bing to compete with guys like Bill Sharman, Sam Jones, and Joe Dumars. It's a shame Bing didn't win more, maybe he could've bumped off Monroe.

Iverson definitely has to be in the conversation, as well.

 

[MikeSU02]

Payton is the only player in league history with 20k points, 5k rebounds, 8k assists, and 2k steals. Obviously he will joined by Lebron in the relatively near future.

He should be no lower than 8th.

He was the best defensive PG of all time, period. Again, people just absolutely dismiss the defensive end of the game as though it doesn't matter.

 

[MikeSU02]

Iverson definitely has to be in the conversation, as well.

Iverson is #6 on the list.

 

[Newhouser]

Frazier loses a lot over time. When he retired he was #1 in FG% for guards and an all time defender.
He also faced far greater big men in the lane than today's players. Should be ahead of Steph and Paul at this time.

Totally agree - and he was a great post-season player.

 

[Newhouser]

another player always left off because he lacked longevity is Nate Archibald. Old school guy but in the early 70's he was Iverson plus.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Iverson definitely has to be in the conversation, as well.

agreed #meaculpa. And I always thought Gervin was a small forward. Shows what I know.

 

[MikeSU02]

Clyde is #5. So I assume the final four are Wade, West, Kobe and MJ.

 

[Eric15]

Clyde is #5. So I assume the final four are Wade, West, Kobe and MJ.

Someone needs to make me an argument for Drexler ahead of Iverson. I don't understand that one at all.

 

[MikeSU02]

Someone needs to make me an argument for Drexler ahead of Iverson. I don't understand that one at all.

I think it's a close call, but my guess is that the argument would be that Drexler is a better all-around player (better rebounder for sure) and won a title. He also never missed a post season in his career.

They have about the same PER.

My guess it's a toss up and maybe Clyde's rebounding or title pushed him past AI. Either way, I think they are on the same "tier". Neither were on the same tier as D Wade who will be #4.

 

[Toga]

I think it's a close call, but my guess is that the argument would be that Drexler is a better all-around player (better rebounder for sure) and won a title. He also never missed a post season in his career.

They have about the same PER.

My guess it's a toss up and maybe Clyde's rebounding or title pushed him past AI. Either way, I think they are on the same "tier". Neither were on the same tier as D Wade who will be #4.

Also a better practice player.

 

[Toga]

agreed #meaculpa. And I always thought Gervin was a small forward. Shows what I know.

Wait - Gervin wasn't a SF?

 

[RandygoCuse]

Also a better practice player.

Hang on, are talking 'bout PRACTICE?

 

[Eric15]

I think it's a close call, but my guess is that the argument would be that Drexler is a better all-around player (better rebounder for sure) and won a title. He also never missed a post season in his career.

They have about the same PER.

My guess it's a toss up and maybe Clyde's rebounding or title pushed him past AI. Either way, I think they are on the same "tier". Neither were on the same tier as D Wade who will be #4.

Iverson: 1 MVP, 11x all star, 3x 1st team, 3x 2nd team, 1x 3rd team, 4x scoring champion, 26.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 6.2 apg
Drexler: 0 MVP, 10x all star, 1x 1st team, 2x 2nd team, 2x 3rd team, 0x scoring champion, 20.4 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 5.6 apg

I know Clyde does have a ring, but he joined that team midseason and was a secondary leader.

 

[MikeSU02]

Iverson: 1 MVP, 11x all star, 3x 1st team, 3x 2nd team, 1x 3rd team, 4x scoring champion, 26.7 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 6.2 apg
Drexler: 0 MVP, 10x all star, 1x 1st team, 2x 2nd team, 2x 3rd team, 0x scoring champion, 20.4 ppg, 6.1 rpg, 5.6 apg

I know Clyde does have a ring, but he joined that team midseason and was a secondary leader.

To be fair, Clyde also played when MJ played, so he was starting each year, at best, as the second best SG in the league.

Like I said, I think it's a toss up.

 

[Eric15]

To be fair, Clyde also played when MJ played, so he was starting each year, at best, as the second best SG in the league.

Fair point.

 

[MikeSU02]

Fair point.

Here is, what I think the drastic difference is:

AI, for whatever reason (whether you attribute it to him or the GM or the coaches) had an insanely high usage percentage.

For all time, AI ranks third in usage percentage (behind MJ and D Wade) in the NBA, while Clyde ranks 62nd.

Clyde's Portland teams were definitely better teams, overall, so that makes sense. He also wasn't the scorer that AI was.

AI never had the teams that Clyde had and it wasn't ever really close. You put AI on a team like the 89-90 Portland team and I don't think he has to shoot as much as he did. He would have a lot of other teammates he could trust.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Here is, what I think the drastic difference is:

AI, for whatever reason (whether you attribute it to him or the GM or the coaches) had an insanely high usage percentage.

For all time, AI ranks third in usage percentage (behind MJ and D Wade) in the NBA, while Clyde ranks 62nd.

Clyde's Portland teams were definitely better teams, overall, so that makes sense. He also wasn't the scorer that AI was.

AI never had the teams that Clyde had and it wasn't ever really close. You put AI on a team like the 89-90 Portland team and I don't think he has to shoot as much as he did. He would have a lot of other teammates he could trust.

I'm not sure AI would be able to play along side more talented teammates. I feel like as good as he was, he also alienated a lot of players (including other all stars). But I will admit that he was awesome and the Iverson/Drexler argumetn could go either way.

 

[MikeSU02]

I'm not sure AI would be able to play along side more talented teammates. I feel like as good as he was, he also alienated a lot of players (including other all stars). But I will admit that he was awesome and the Iverson/Drexler argumetn could go either way.

If nothing else, he was entertaining and he gave a crap each night. That all-star game he had the East come back and win was fantastic.

 

[Alsacs]

Bill Simmons in his book nailed the Isiah-Stockton argument.
Would you rather 12 seasons of A basketball or 19 season of A- basketball. Also Isiah retired before he just hung around for more years. He left with years left but didn't want to rehab and come back as a role player like Stockton was at the end of his career.

He used an analogy of s-ex in his argument. With Stockton you were getting some but with Isiah you were getting good stuff.

I would take Isiah all day long over Stockton. Stockton was a lot more dirty than he gets mentioned about.

 

[Alsacs]

If I had to pick between Iverson and Drexler I would take AI. I think he was slightly better. That is a lot closer than Isiah-Stockton fore sure and BTW Curry at 4 right now is so laughable it can't be taken seriously.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Bill Simmons in his book nailed the Isiah-Stockton argument.
Would you rather 12 seasons of A basketball or 19 season of A- basketball. Also Isiah retired before he just hung around for more years. He left with years left but didn't want to rehab and come back as a role player like Stockton was at the end of his career.

He used an analogy of s-ex in his argument. With Stockton you were getting some but with Isiah you were getting good stuff.

I would take Isiah all day long over Stockton. Stockton was a lot more dirty than he gets mentioned about.

Good points all around - you are correct that Stockton was known for dirty play. It's worth mentioning that yes, he was a role player the last year or two, but even if you discount that he stayed consistent far longer than most (including Isiah). I would say that Isiah was the better player and Stockton was the better point guard.

 

[Knicks411]

Stockton made the AS game as late as age 37 too

 

[MikeSU02]

Where would people rank Tony Parker on a PG list (I don't mean to imply that he should be top 10)? Interested in what people think of him.

 

[Knicks411]

Where would people rank Tony Parker on a PG list (I don't mean to imply that he should be top 10)? Interested in what people think of him.

really good for a long time, never truly elite? One time making third team all NBA, 3 times on the second team. That sounds about right to me. Probably makes him one of the 20ish best PG of all time?

Checked Stockton because I was curious; 2 time first team all league, 6 times second team, 3 times third. Made one of the 3 teams 11 times in 12 years.

Interesting on Isiah, he made 3 first team all NBA; 84-86, before they were winning titles. (In all 3 years the back court was him and Magic) Second team in 83 and 87 (87 the all NBA back court was Magic and Michael, so have fun cracking that)