Top 10 PGs all-time per ESPN

[OrangeDW]

I also say that as much as I respect what he brought to championship teams, Rodman doesn't belong here. These are individual lists right?

Someone like Chris Webber was much better than Rodman.

 

[OrangeDW]

Barkley had a short period where he was truly elite. He was a terrific scorer / rebounder, horrible defender, rarely in shape, and injuries cut short his career.

Different strokes, but I'd take KG's overall career any day over Barkley's. I also believe that KG had a "better" career than Barkley. He was a great player for a LONG time, and won a championship [nearly two, if Boston hadn't gotten jobbed in a game 7 on the road by the refs]. If we're talking who had the better single season, then Barkley. If you're talking career, give me KG.

But I agree--Barkley had those two years post-dream team where he was wicked [circa 1993].

I feel like Sixers Barkley was just as good. 1988 or so to 1993 Barkley was incredible. Barkley should've been MVP in 1990 too and I say this as a Lakers and Magic Johnson fan. The Sixers front office made some TERRIBLE moves that made it tough for them to compete. He had those 1990 Sixers in the mix, with way less talent than the other Eastern conference contenders.

 

[Knicks411]

Barkley had a short period where he was truly elite. He was a terrific scorer / rebounder, horrible defender, rarely in shape, and injuries cut short his career.

Different strokes, but I'd take KG's overall career any day over Barkley's. I also believe that KG had a "better" career than Barkley. He was a great player for a LONG time, and won a championship [nearly two, if Boston hadn't gotten jobbed in a game 7 on the road by the refs]. If we're talking who had the better single season, then Barkley. If you're talking career, give me KG.

But I agree--Barkley had those two years post-dream team where he was wicked [circa 1993].

Barkley was awesome at his peak and maybe at his peak was better than KG (though I'm with you on the overall career), but in 2004 Garnett averaged a 24-14-5 while being probably the best defensive player in the league (maybe Duncan was better?) and won 58 games in a stacked Western Conference with his next 2 best players being a pretty much washed up Sprewell and a still effective Sam Cassell. That is one hell of a peak.

 

[OrangeDW]

Barkley was awesome at his peak and maybe at his peak was better than KG (though I'm with you on the overall career), but in 2004 Garnett averaged a 24-14-5 while being probably the best defensive player in the league (maybe Duncan was better?) and won 58 games in a stacked Western Conference with his next 2 best players being a pretty much washed up Sprewell and a still effective Sam Cassell. That is one hell of a peak.

I was fully onboard with KG being the best player in the game at that time. But Barkley's stats were similar many times, AND he shot 60% from the field. You don't see 7'0 go to guys shooting 60%, let alone 6'5 guys.

 

[Shawn91111]

Why isn't Duncan a PF? He played with Centers in Robinson, Nesterovic, Mohammed, Splitter

 

[Knicks411]

I was fully onboard with KG being the best player in the game at that time. But Barkley's stats were similar many times, AND he shot 60% from the field. You don't see 7'0 go to guys shooting 60%, let alone 6'5 guys.

Sure his offensive stats were, but KG is one of the best defensive players the game has ever seen. Barkley was...not.

Why isn't Duncan a PF? He played with Centers in Robinson, Nesterovic, Mohammed, Splitter

I don't really know how to even look this up, but I would imagine Duncan played more minutes as a C than as a PF? Especially after Robinson left. And double especially when it mattered. Looking at Nesterovic; he basically replaced Robinson. For the Spurs title in 05, they played 23 playoff games that year. Rasho played in 15 of them, averaging 8 minutes per game. Nazr played about 22 minutes per game in the finals that year. Tiago played about 15 minutes a game in the 2013 finals. When it was really important, Duncan was usually playing C.

 

[PoppyHart]

Sure his offensive stats were, but KG is one of the best defensive players the game has ever seen. Barkley was...not.



I don't really know how to even look this up, but I would imagine Duncan played more minutes as a C than as a PF? Especially after Robinson left. And double especially when it mattered. Looking at Nesterovic; he basically replaced Robinson. For the Spurs title in 05, they played 23 playoff games that year. Rasho played in 15 of them, averaging 8 minutes per game. Nazr played about 22 minutes per game in the finals that year. Tiago played about 15 minutes a game in the 2013 finals. When it was really important, Duncan was usually playing C.

When it was really important, Lebron played PG.

 

[Knicks411]

When it was really important, Lebron played PG.

I don't think that's really the same; Duncan has played a lot larger % of his minutes at C than Lebron at PG. I'm not exactly sure how they do it, but basketball reference has Duncan listed as a C since the 2007 season; though back to PF this year.

 

[RandygoCuse]

My guess is that ESPN will do the centers today or this week. My prediction:
1) Russell
2) Chamberlain
3) Kareem
4) Olajuwon
5) Shaq
6) Moses Malone
7) George Mikan
8) David Robinson
9)Wes Unseld
10) Walton

I've never seen Walton play but I feel like he always ends up on these lists. Based on what I've seen on him, I'm not sure why. Even when healthy, his numbers didn't away. I understand he won a championship and was a great passer, but I wonder if his college career helped to boost up his pro one. I'm sure there are people here who got to see him play and can talk about the intangibles he brought. Should he rank ahead of guys like Cowens, Ewing, Reed, Thurmond or Lanier?

 

[Knicks411]

My guess is that ESPN will do the centers today or this week. My prediction:
1) Russell
2) Chamberlain
3) Kareem
4) Olajuwon
5) Shaq
6) Moses Malone
7) George Mikan
8) David Robinson
9)Wes Unseld
10) Walton

I've never seen Walton play but I feel like he always ends up on these lists. Based on what I've seen on him, I'm not sure why. Even when healthy, his numbers didn't . . . . . . . away. I understand he won a championship and was a great passer, but I wonder if his college career helped to boost up his pro one. I'm sure there are people here who got to see him play and can talk about the intangibles he brought. Should he rank ahead of guys like Cowens, Ewing, Reed, Thurmond or Lanier?

Walton's numbers were pretty good; he wasn't healthy a lot, but you're basically talking 20-15-5 with really good defense, plus the Blazers were great when he played.

I think Kareem has to at least crack the top 2, if not #1.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Walton's numbers were pretty good; he wasn't healthy a lot, but you're basically talking 20-15-5 with really good defense, plus the Blazers were great when he played.

I think Kareem has to at least crack the top 2, if not #1.

I feel like it's pretty close to accepted that Chamberlain and Russell occupy the top two spots - although the order can be debated. Kareem had a fantastic career though, especially when you take the longevity and success into account.

 

[Knicks411]

I feel like it's pretty close to accepted that Chamberlain and Russell occupy the top two spots - although the order can be debated. Kareem had a fantastic career though, especially when you take the longevity and success into account.

Not sure about that. Kareem was amazing for 20 years. If I'm ranking C, I have him #2 at worst. We'll see where ESPN has him.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Not sure about that. Kareem was amazing for 20 years. If I'm ranking C, I have him #2 at worst. We'll see where ESPN has him.

Who do you have at 1?

 

[Knicks411]

Who do you have at 1?

I would have Russell and Kareem 1-2 in some order. Leaning towards Kareem.

 

[br801]

I would have Russell and Kareem 1-2 in some order. Leaning towards Kareem.

IMO, Kareem was the greatest offensive talent to play the position, Russell the greatest defensive center, and Wilt the greatest combination of offense and defense ever to play in the middle. I would rank them Wilt, Kareem and then Bill, but one could make a compelling case for any order.

 

[Eric15]

My guess is that ESPN will do the centers today or this week. My prediction:
1) Russell
2) Chamberlain
3) Kareem
4) Olajuwon
5) Shaq
6) Moses Malone
7) George Mikan
8) David Robinson
9)Wes Unseld
10) Walton

I've never seen Walton play but I feel like he always ends up on these lists. Based on what I've seen on him, I'm not sure why. Even when healthy, his numbers didn't . . . . . . . away. I understand he won a championship and was a great passer, but I wonder if his college career helped to boost up his pro one. I'm sure there are people here who got to see him play and can talk about the intangibles he brought. Should he rank ahead of guys like Cowens, Ewing, Reed, Thurmond or Lanier?

Walton was an unbelievable player, but he had fewer career points than Billy Owens. I think people tend to give him the benefit of the doubt that he would have been a legend without injuries. I personally would put Ewing in that 10th spot instead.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Center is deep. I don't see how you leave Ewing off though. He averaged at minimum 20 and 10, plus 2+ blocks for nine straight years. That's crazy. He often gets overlooked for some reason, imo.

 

[Knicks411]

Center is deep. I don't see how you leave Ewing off though. He averaged at minimum 20 and 10, plus 2+ blocks for nine straight years. That's crazy. He often gets overlooked for some reason, imo.

Probably the no titles and his prime overlapped with, to some extent, Hakeem, Shaq, and Robinson and he was probably inferior to all of them. (not every year but overall)

IMO, Kareem was the greatest offensive talent to play the position, Russell the greatest defensive center, and Wilt the greatest combination of offense and defense ever to play in the middle. I would rank them Wilt, Kareem and then Bill, but one could make a compelling case for any order.

To me, Kareem just played so much longer than the other 2, I need to count that. Including playoffs (not totally fair because he played in an era with longer playoffs), he played 1800 games, Russell and Wilt were around 1200. That's 50% more games!

There's a part of me that wonders how Russell would have done if he wasn't on a team with so many other great players, but he was, and he was insanely successful, so who cares?

 

[RandygoCuse]

Looks like Ewing made the list after all. Good for him.

 

[RandygoCuse]

Not sure about that. Kareem was amazing for 20 years. If I'm ranking C, I have him #2 at worst. We'll see where ESPN has him.

Well played, my friend, well played.

 

[MikeSU02]

You can make a very valid argument that KAJ is the best player of all time, imo, definitely better than Wilt. He is at worst #2 on the center list.

 

[Knicks411]

You can make a very valid argument that KAJ is the best player of all time, imo, definitely better than Wilt. He is at worst #2 on the center list.

Absolutely. I take MJ as the best ever, but even as a 40 year old he averaged 18 points per 36 on a 57% true shooting. Also, he came into the league averaging a 29-15, pretty sure he would have had a huge year or two if he came out earlier.

I was curious; Kareem was a soph in 1967. I assume he would have been the #1 pick, instead of Jimmy Walker to Detroit. He would have been able to play with Bing and DeBusschere, but they probably wouldn't have been better than the Bucks. The next year, the San Diego Rockets had the first pick; so again, worse than the Bucks. Was just wondering

 

[MikeSU02]

Absolutely. I take MJ as the best ever, but even as a 40 year old he averaged 18 points per 36 on a 57% true shooting. Also, he came into the league averaging a 29-15, pretty sure he would have had a huge year or two if he came out earlier.

I was curious; Kareem was a soph in 1967. I assume he would have been the #1 pick, instead of Jimmy Walker to Detroit. He would have been able to play with Bing and DeBusschere, but they probably wouldn't have been better than the Bucks. The next year, the San Diego Rockets had the first pick; so again, worse than the Bucks. Was just wondering

If KAJ was in HS nowadays, ESPN would change its URL to LewAlcindor.com.

They hype around him would be out of this world as he dominated the NYC scene.

It would make LeBron's coverage seem rational and calm.

Stern would come back from retirement and rig the lottery so that the Lakers got him.

 

[PoppyHart]

Lots of turnover from the "50 Greatest" list the NBA honored 20 years ago. Some, like Walton, now appear even though their career was over in 1996. Others, like Schayes, Sharman, Reed, Unseld, etc... have been bumped aside for the new crop of Curry, Durant, Duncan, Lebron, etc...

 

[NineOneSeven]

Center:

1. Kareem
2. Wilt
3. Russell
4. Shaq
5. The dream
6. Moses
7. Robinson
8. Patrick Chewing
9. Mikan
10. Walton