Top 10 PGs all-time per ESPN

[Macky44]

Frazier loses a lot over time. When he retired he was #1 in FG% for guards and an all time defender.
He also faced far greater big men in the lane than today's players. Should be ahead of Steph and Paul at this time.

Noone plays defense in the NBA anymore. Its almost pointless making lists like this. Imagine if Wilt or Jordan could get open dunks all game like Lebron? Noone has balls. NBA sucks now.

 

[Knicks411]

The Spurs are just like a machine. Even when Cleveland was up by 12 you knew the Spurs were coming back

 

[Eric15]

Noone plays defense in the NBA anymore.

Come on, man. That's just a cliche said by people who don't like the NBA.

 

[Alsacs]

If 1987 Michael Jordan played with today's rules he would probably average 40 PPG.

While the athletes today are better. That 1987 Jordan was a freak athlete would attack the rim and averaged 11 FTA a game in an ERA you could actually hammer people and hand check.

With no handchecking lookout. That is why I hate comparing ERAs.

 

[Eric15]

 

[Knicks411]

Come on, man. That's just a cliche said by people who don't like the NBA.

Honestly it's not even worth debating. To compare the period Wilt played in to now is just a joke. Defense now is more sophisticated (though less contact allowed) than ever.

Is Leonard an elite player yet? (Like top 5 or so?) if he isn't, he can't be far away

 

[orangefog]

Doctor J before Doctor J. A shame that he wrongfully blackballed from the game in his prime years and that we were deprived of seeing them.

Couldn't have been that good, Paul Simon beat him one on one.

 

[Alsacs]

Honestly it's not even worth debating. To compare the period Wilt played in to now is just a joke. Defense now is more sophisticated (though less contact allowed) than ever.

Is Leonard an elite player yet? (Like top 5 or so?) if he isn't, he can't be far away

Yes. Leonard would crack my top 5.

1. Lebron
2. Davis
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. Leonard
6. Green
7. Westbrook
8. George
9. Harden
10. Cousins
11. Butler
12. Griffin
13. Lillard
14. Aldridge
15. Thompson

are my top 15.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Noone plays defense in the NBA anymore. Its almost pointless making lists like this. Imagine if Wilt or Jordan could get open dunks all game like Lebron? Noone has balls. NBA sucks now.

LOL. NBA defense is better than it's ever been. People need to get over the 90's. Yeah you could mug people, but hardly anyone could shoot.

 

[Eric15]

Yes. Leonard would crack my top 5.

1. Lebron
2. Davis
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. Leonard
6. Green
7. Westbrook
8. George
9. Harden
10. Cousins
11. Butler
12. Griffin
13. Lillard
14. Aldridge
15. Thompson

are my top 15.

You are going to cause some posters to faint by not including Melo here.

 

[Alsacs]

You are going to cause some posters to faint by not including Melo here.

I will always love Melo for 2003 but right now he isn't a top 15 player. He is a great scorer and still plays at an all-star level but I would take all the players I listed over him. I mean if you want to swap out Klay Thompson go ahead. I just try to be objective. If I was starting my team from scratch right now and could take Thompson or Melo I would take Thompson.

 

[Knicks411]

At this point I don't think I could have Steph any lower than 2.

Melos shooting isn't great this year, but he's playing a great all around game. I t hink I would take him over Lillard or LMA right now.

 

[Alsacs]

At this point I don't think I could have Steph any lower than 2.

Melos shooting isn't great this year, but he's playing a great all around game. I t hink I would take him over Lillard or LMA right now.

Maybe Lillard but not Aldridge. Melo's D is not as good as LMA.
Curry is great but I still would take Davis and Durant over him. The Nuggets game showed that team needs Draymond Green just as much as Curry.

Green's ability to play 5 so well is huge to GS. Right now even with Warriors start I think the Spurs will beat them in the playoffs. As LMA/Leonard/Duncan/Parker/West is a really tough lineup for GS to defend.

 

[Cusefan0307]

To beat SAS you have to be a good shooting team, GSW is just that. I'm pretty interested to see them go head to head.
Golden State doesn't need to shoot shots near the basket to win, and they love to run. San Antonio is a halfcourt team. Can San Antonio keep two bigs on the floor at the same time against them?

As for Cleveland Kyrie is still really struggling on D. He had a very hard time with Parker last night.

 

[Knicks411]

Maybe Lillard but not Aldridge. Melo's D is not as good as LMA.
Curry is great but I still would take Davis and Durant over him. The Nuggets game showed that team needs Draymond Green just as much as Curry.

Green's ability to play 5 so well is huge to GS. Right now even with Warriors start I think the Spurs will beat them in the playoffs. As LMA/Leonard/Duncan/Parker/West is a really tough lineup for GS to defend.

Green is awesome, but Steph completely changes the way they play. His shooting is unlike anything we have ever seen. If I had to win a game tomorrow, I'd t ake Steph over Durant/Davis. Green is great but I don't think he's as important to the Warriors as Steph. He's still an incredible player though.

Is LMA really that good a defender? He hasn't been able to crack a 53% true shooting the last 4 years, even on an incredible team like the Spurs.

 

[Newhouser]

Not the outcome I would've preferred, but good, tough game between two of the three premier teams in the league. Curious to see how the Cavs come back tomorrow night at Houston before ending this 6-game roadie and heading home to play Golden State Monday night. Not exactly breaking news, but San Antonio is so good and deep, and I like how the Cavs are coming along with Kyrie starting to get it together.

Great great game and both teams are rock solid. The X factor is Love - he is a liability on D and it really stands out against teams in the upper echelon.

 

[IthacaMatt]

The quality of play in the ABA when Erving was there was pretty damn good. And even if you want to discount those years, his NBA performance was consistently stellar in terms of counting stats and advanced metrics like PER.

Oh, I'm not saying that the ABA wasn't good. I'm just saying they didn't get the TV coverage of the NBA, and so a lot of Americans didn't see him at his very best.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I think Havlicek was more of a leader. Statistically the two were close, and I just see Havlicek having more of an edge in certain categories... On another note, if Worthy is considered a 3, who was the power forward on those Laker teams?

I always thought of Havlicek as more of an elite glue guy than someone who belongs in the GOAT conversation. Kind of like Pete Rose.

 

[Knicks411]

I always thought of Havlicek as more of an elite glue guy than someone who belongs in the GOAT conversation. Kind of like Pete Rose.

I just think that shortchanges him. He made 4 first team all NBA. He was the leading scorer for the Celtics on like 3 or 4 of their title teams.

 

[br801]

Oh, I'm not saying that the ABA wasn't good. I'm just saying they didn't get the TV coverage of the NBA, and so a lot of Americans didn't see him at his very best.

Oh, you're right. Probably had to be in the ABA markets to get even a few games. I remember watching the Nets on television on NYC stations but don't recall any national or network coverage of the league. But even the NBA coverage was limited on a national scale in those days; I remember the Sunday afternoon games and the playoffs on network tv, but not much else.

 

[Macky44]

LOL. NBA defense is better than it's ever been. People need to get over the 90's. Yeah you could mug people, but hardly anyone could shoot.

Should i post the hundreds of clips of lebron taking 3 euro steps through an open lane with noone attempting to defend him, on the way to an uncontested dunk that espn thinks is the greatest thing that has ever happened? Spare me the garbage about the defense being better than it ever was.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Should i post the hundreds of clips of lebron taking 3 euro steps through an open lane with noone attempting to defend him, on the way to an uncontested dunk that espn thinks is the greatest thing that has ever happened? Spare me the garbage about the defense being better than it ever was.

LOL, you need to watch more than Sportscenter.

Ewing and Jordan traveled just as much if not more in the 90's.

The Spurs might have the best defense in NBA history this year.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They are counting down top ten power forwards now, and I know Duncan is going to be number one, but come on, he should be a center. I never get why he's been deemed a power forward his entire career.

 

[Knicks411]

LOL, you need to watch more than Sportscenter.

Ewing and Jordan traveled just as much if not more in the 90's.

The Spurs might have the best defense in NBA history this year.

It's not a point even worth contesting. We could post video from the 80's of guys not even being guarded at the three point line or people getting out of Barkley's way on a dunk (hint; 6-8 275 pound guys who are going full speed are not fun to get in front of) but what's the point? Just ignore it and we can have an actual good conversation.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yes. Leonard would crack my top 5.

1. Lebron
2. Davis
3. Durant
4. Curry
5. Leonard
6. Green
7. Westbrook
8. George
9. Harden
10. Cousins
11. Butler
12. Griffin
13. Lillard
14. Aldridge
15. Thompson

are my top 15.

Chris Paul must be in there