Triche-- get a shrink-OR- get me one!

[SoBristol]

I love people who complain about people debating who should start, etc. Yes, let's table this discussion and get back to each other in a month. . . .

The PG thing is interesting. He was the starting PG for the #1 ranked team in the country as a frosh, a team that many of us thought was a quad tear away from a NC. Is he out of position at SG? What are his flaws as a PG?

Good post. When BT started at PG, we had Andy and Wes, and those two made up for BT's limitations. BT picked up his dribble 20 ft out, and passed to the high post, or to Andy, or Wes, the the ball moved from there. BT almost never beat his own defender with his dribble and rarely could get into the lane, pull a defender and feed a big for an easy finish. When Scoop subbed in for BT (and I am not saying that Scoop is perfect), the offense picked up. BT is a solid passer; safe.
In my opinion, SG is the right place for BT, but he is not the classic long range shooter you might prefer (Andy as a senior being the classic). But he can do a range of things from SG: defense, rebounding, some shooting, sometimes using his size to get inside.

 

[pfister1]

Every summer I hear about how Triche is tearing up summer league ball, dropping 50, and in the gym every day. That's great. But playing for Brooklyn Pickle in CNY isn't exactly Rucker Park. So far, he looks the same. Yes all that could change very quickly and I hope it does and I'll gladly be wrong.

Nobody is watching the summer league games, no 20-30k crowds, no television, easier environment to be successful in if you have confidence issues...

 

[The General]

Nobody is watching the summer league games, no 20-30k crowds, no television, easier environment to be successful in if you have confidence issues...

Sure. Obviously weaker competition, less pressure. I just wish he'd carry that confidence from summer to when it counts. You look at him and his body language, etc. Someone called him Charlie Brown. If he STILL has confidence issues as a 3 year starter I don't know how he ever fixes that. I'd love to see him trash talk or hang on the rim or something. Get a T! He's just so damn mellow. Even listens to R&B before games. Yes Brandon, you really need something to calm you down. He should be listening to death metal. Not Luther Vandross. I guess I prefer guys who either have an edge or are chill but confident, like Wes. Maybe his demeanor holds him back as much as anything.

He takes his mistakes too hard and doesn't enjoy his success enough. Waiters is the exact opposite.

 

[The General]

Good post. When BT started at PG, we had Andy and Wes, and those two made up for BT's limitations. BT picked up his dribble 20 ft out, and passed to the high post, or to Andy, or Wes, the the ball moved from there. BT almost never beat his own defender with his dribble and rarely could get into the lane, pull a defender and feed a big for an easy finish. When Scoop subbed in for BT (and I am not saying that Scoop is perfect), the offense picked up. BT is a solid passer; safe.
In my opinion, SG is the right place for BT, but he is not the classic long range shooter you might prefer (Andy as a senior being the classic). But he can do a range of things from SG: defense, rebounding, some shooting, sometimes using his size to get inside.

Guess you are right. For what we needed at the time, BT was a decent PG. Scoop was still too wild. I don't advocate BT as a PG but he does seem uncomfortable still at SG. And he does have a bizarre number of plays where he tries to make a move or a pass, turns it over and looks like he can't believe what he was trying to do didn't work. He does this over and over and seldom adjusts. Def don't want a PG doing that.

Anyway, he's good on D, Waiters will spell him often to generate offense I'm sure. I think I just have to accept that I am expecting way too much from Triche. I hope I'm dead wrong and he blows up this year and next but he seems like a 4 year starter who is just a role player. How many guys have we had in the modern 'Cuse hoops era that started for 4 years but were just role players? Did Jason Hart start all 4? Is he closest comparison at this point? And he was a pretty good PG as I recall, not a star, but solid.

 

[longislandcuse]

He listens to R&B before games?. That just made me lol. Makes so much sense. BT and Marrone must have the same pharmacist.

 

[The General]

He listens to R&B before games?. That just made me lol. Makes so much sense. BT and Marrone must have the same pharmacist.

Yeah, it was in the Post Standard season preview. Him and Mookie. Somehow it fits Mookie. I feel like Mookie could be taking a nap in the locker room, wake-up with 3:42 to play and give you the same performance.

 

[billsin01]

he's just not that good but we like his high school and his last name. i don't know why su needs to wait so long for guys to develop when they have so many players. maybe we won't this year, will wait and see. but i was not happy at all with the first few minutes of the game between scoop and triche.

I was frustrated by the first few minutes. But, as a couple people have stated in this thread already, I think a big issue here is expectations. Between the kid's physique, growing up upstate, the name and the reports over the summer of how much quicker/more explosive he is, I think people were expecting 17 ppg on 45% shooting, etc.

But I think the reason this becomes such a huge argument is that -- due to our wealth of talent -- people get frustrated when anyone who won't be in the nba 3 years from now gets any run. I think the point on Triche is that he does some things solidly -- OK ball-handler, capable scorer (even if he is somewhat streaky), unselfish and decent defensively. That's enough to get you on the court when the alternatives are a true frosh who is going to struggle in BE play (love MCW but there is going to be a learning curve for him) and Waiters who's had attitude issues as well as "let me dribble for 18-22 seconds to see what I can get and then I might try to pass to someone as long as it nets me an assist" issues. I'm not saying that will be waiters this year, just that he had those issues at times last season.

What I think is a very likely scenario and, at least IMO a very acceptable and rational one, is that Dion begins to play smoother, slightly more team-oriented ball. As that trust grows, he establishes himself as a dynamic sixth starter essentially and has some games where he ends up playing 30+ minutes, while Triche sees his minutes dip a bit but still plays a key role.

An interesting comp:
Triche 2010-11
29 mpg, 11 ppg, 3 apg, 42/33/84 shooting

Duany 2002-03
27 mpg, 11 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 44/35/68 shooting

We all think of Duany as a key role player on that championship team. Meanwhile half the board thinks Triche is going to blow up and be an AA while the other half thinks he should never have been granted a schollie. Let's just hope Dion emerges like Billy Edelin did back in the day and we can all appreciate Triche for what he is -- a decent player that functions better as option 4 or 5 on the floor than option 1.

 

[Upstate]

for Triche to be utilized to the full extent, he needs to have the ball in his hands...unfortunately, we are SU and not Rutgers, so we have a ton of talent that should have the ball, too.

 

[The General]

I
An interesting comp:
Triche 2010-11
29 mpg, 11 ppg, 3 apg, 42/33/84 shooting

Duany 2002-03
27 mpg, 11 ppg, 3.7 rpg, 44/35/68 shooting

We all think of Duany as a key role player on that championship team. Meanwhile half the board thinks Triche is going to blow up and be an AA while the other half thinks he should never have been granted a schollie. Let's just hope Dion emerges like Billy Edelin did back in the day and we can all appreciate Triche for what he is -- a decent player that functions better as option 4 or 5 on the floor than option 1.

But aren't we asking Triche to be more than a role player? Doesn't the staff expect him to be the #2 option?

If not, who is #2? Scoop?

 

[billsin01]

But aren't we asking Triche to be more than a role player? Doesn't the staff expect him to be the #2 option?

If not, who is #2? Scoop?

I think we'd love it if he was a legit no. 2 option, but I'm not sure he ever gets there. I think he's a role player who can be a solid, valuable, functioning member of this team. The issue, IMO, is that we don't really have a no. 2 option ... and maybe not a no. 1 option at this point. My guess is that by Jan., Waiters will be big for us, KJ will hopefully assume the role as no. 1. But I think the answer is, we don't have a no. 1 or no. 2 right now. I think that's part of the reason there is so much criticism of Triche.

 

[SoBristol]

If healthy, KJ is a definite no 1 option -- really pleased to see him make strong moves inside and shoot with confidence against Fordham. Behind him, we have a lot of balance, and that is OK.
This team has a lot of younger guys who should get better over the course of the year -- Dion, Christmas, CJ at the forefront of the youth movement.

 

[Knicks411]

One thing i don't understand is I frequently hear in these parts, and others, how "talented" Triche is. Something like "we all see how talented he is, he just needs to put it together, etc)

I'm not saying I don't see talent from him, but he's not a player I look at and think he oozes talent or whatever. His handle doesn't away, he isn't particularly quick, he isn't a lights out shooter. I'm not saying the kid is bad, he's at worst an average BE guard, which puts him in the upper echelon of all college players, but I haven't seen the potential for a whole lot more than that in his first 2 years.

 

[DoctorBombay]

Sure. Obviously weaker competition, less pressure. I just wish he'd carry that confidence from summer to when it counts. You look at him and his body language, etc. Someone called him Charlie Brown. If he STILL has confidence issues as a 3 year starter I don't know how he ever fixes that. I'd love to see him trash talk, or hang on the rim or something. Get a T! He's just so damn mellow. Even listens to R&B before games. Yes Brandon, you really need something to calm you down. He should be listening to death metal. Not Luther Vandross. I guess I prefer guys who...have an edge or are chill but confident, like Wes. Maybe his demeanor holds him back as much as anything.

He takes his mistakes too hard and doesn't enjoy his success enough. Waiters is the exact opposite.

Hmmm, sounds familiar:

 

[orangefan13]

And Why should MCW play PG over Triche??? Becuase of hype?

Its like the battling for tougher roles. We need a second SG to put up points right now and Triche is ahead, but he is all over the place and the ball isn't going in the basket after three games. Dion for the record is doing his job. Let MCW try to make things happen as a Point forward type at SG.

Really if Triche continues to try to do to much and you put him at PG then that will calm him down. MCW will have a easier time protecting the ball at SG. Because our offense puts our SF on the left side of the three point line. Now he can throw a outlet pass in times of stress either direction without Rak coming out of the low post and CJ/Southerland coming out of the high.

MCW can still get his practice at PG when we are up 25 the next few months.

 

[AZOrange]

Its one game...I dont know how you can evaluate a player on that so far (in which he got 16 minutes). He did some good things (i.e. he got 7 rebounds), he just didnt shoot it very well and forced a couple of passes.

 

[longislandcuse]

Loved Eric Devendorf. One of my favorite players to ever come through Cuse!

 

[orangefan13]

i like you orangefan13 but you have no idea what you are talking about

You can say that. Thats fine but atleast awsner the question if you go there.
Why should MCW play PG over Brandon?

Im not saying your wrong either. :bat::rolling:

 

[Czar]

You can say that. Thats fine but atleast awsner the question if you go there.
Why should MCW play PG over Brandon?

Im not saying your wrong either. :bat::rolling:

Well, one, Triche has barely played PG the previous year. Two, because MCW has way, way more talent with the ball than Triche does, he's just raw.

 

[arbitragegls]

...actually, since BT was PG as Frosh and team did well...had some great court teammates...but not greater than Scoop had last year...lets place Triche as PG with MCW...even as 2nd rotation...I believe they will be better as far as team scoring than Scoop and Waiters together...just a thought

 

[SoBristol]

You can say that. Thats fine but atleast awsner the question if you go there.
Why should MCW play PG over Brandon?

Because MCW is good at PG and has the potential to be a star?
Look, you watch the games right? Consider how often Brandon beats his man with a dribble; how often he can get into the lane and make a pass setting up a teammate; how the ball moves around to good positions when he starts the play (or not). Watch MCW at the same skills. Or watch good point guards on other teams; or watch some tape of Jonny Flynn, then compare Brandon.

 

[arbitragegls]

Because MCW is good at PG and has the potential to be a star?
Look, you watch the games right? Consider how often Brandon beats his man with a dribble; how often he can get into the lane and make a pass setting up a teammate; how the ball moves around to good positions when he starts the play (or not). Watch MCW at the same skills. Or watch good point guards on other teams; or watch some tape of Jonny Flynn, then compare Brandon.

...at least you did not bring up Scoop...who has the half court sets non existent...why not give BT a chance to fail and then we can really dump on him; otherwise we are all guessing and JB and staff must not know what they are doing...otherwise BT would be a pine player

 

[cortacuse]

watched the post game presser after the Fordham game and Jimmy said that he had asked Brandon to crash the boards... he had seven rebounds and afterwords JB was impressed with his performance... I can see Dion taking more of Scoop's minutes than BT's... time will tell.

 

[orangefan13]

ok heres goes mcw is a better pg than bt because hes got better handle,vision, speed and only played one game so far and hes still adjusting. theres so many things that are in favor of mcw at pg. his defense is pretty good for a freshman with no experience also.

And Bristols post.

Thats Fair I see it different as a opinion only though.
Triche is faster with the ball (right now anyway), dribbles lower, closer to the body, is stronger when getting bumped against physical defenders(which will come in Big East play), knows where the doubles are coming from better, and knows KJO and Fairs cuts to the basket better.

MCW looks like a point forward Kris Joseph kind of dribbler right now in my opinion. We could let him out of the cannon as a point SG like Kris sophmore year with AO/Rick in the low post. The negative posibility iss choose your poison a uncosistant SG in Triche putting up lots of shots, or a backup SG who doesn't lead us to lots of points. The positive possibility is Triche being consistant at SG or MCW playing within the halfcourt isolation with his athleticism and giving us points.

Also Defensively I like Triche on the point guard in the zone he doesn't get blown by as easy as MCW at this point. I like Kris and MCW trapping on the same side.
Not saying I am right but thats the way I see it. But hey, were playing for March. MCW has played 2 weeks of college basketball thusfar.

 

[SoBristol]

...at least you did not bring up Scoop...who has the half court sets non existent...why not give BT a chance to fail and then we can really dump on him; otherwise we are all guessing and JB and staff must not know what they are doing...otherwise BT would be a pine player

Or JB and staff know what they are doing, and BT is the SG not the PG anymore because, in fact, JB knows his stuff.
I didn't bring up Scoop, but Scoop has already proved he is a top 15 PG (warts and all) in the eyes of folks who know the game. It truly isn't guessing -- we saw BT in the point guard role. You give BT his chance to succeed by telling him to use what he has in the SG role.

 

[orangefan13]

Or JB and staff know what they are doing, and BT is the SG not the PG anymore because, in fact, JB knows his stuff.
I didn't bring up Scoop, but Scoop has already proved he is a top 15 PG (warts and all) in the eyes of folks who know the game. It truly isn't guessing -- we saw BT in the point guard role. You give BT his chance to succeed by telling him to use what he has in the SG role.

I will say this, I think MCW has a better change of direction. He is more apt to face a defender 45 degrees left or right while dribbling(something Edelin was great at). BT was more likely to face a defender facing him front back as a PG the last few years.