Two observations from yesterday's game

[RF2044]

Number one, there is no doubt in my mind that Michigan State looked past us. They looked completely unprepared to play the zone, they quickly got away from what they did best, and their players looked frustrated and then rattled down the stretch. Without looking at the statistics [because I don't think that they were quite ineffectual], but it reminded me of how the Indiana backcourt got pwned in terms of how poorly they played. I think that they expected an easy game, since they've steamrolled most opponents this year, and might have got caught looking ahead. Their players looked lost and confused the majority of the game.

Secondly, Izzo really coached poorly. You would think that they would have attacked us inside, with both of our bigs in foul trouble the majority of the game, and with Dolezaj manning the pivot late. Instead, they swung it around the perimeter and settled for threes. Brandon Bayer played nearly 7 minutes of game time, and not once did they try to isolate / attack him as potentially the weak link defensively. All signs of poor coaching, IMO.

Actually, one more observation -- MSU got lucky as hell numerous times. At least two of the fouls on Chukwu were complete BS bail out calls, otherwise he might not have gotten in foul trouble. Frank fouled out with 7 minutes to go. They hit that ridiculous shot at the end of the half. They were playing a "home" game, in front of a crowd comprised of 90% their fans. If those things don't go in their favor, it might not have been as close as it was.

Per ususal, the B1G is vastly overrated on a national scale.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Looking past a team is a losing strategy in a single elimination tournament.

 

[RF2044]

Looking past a team is a losing strategy in a single elimination tournament.

I can't envision another reason why they would be so thoroughly unprepared -- I mean, they went 30-4 prior to facing us. They were one of the best statistical offenses in the country, they were huge inside, had depth, etc. And yet, they looked inept.

 

[realorange]

RF's comment about Izzo sounded like my neighbor who was a high school coach. He couldn't understand why Izzo didn't put a player in the key that could shoot. Izzo said something after the game about experienced player vs freshman (Jackson). Sure didn't work out well.
Neighbor, who is a Michigan native, went on the say Izzo should be embarrassed to be a Hall of Famer.

 

[Jasonrob44]

The thing that surprised me about Izzo is that if anyone saw his interview at the end of the first half with Allie LaForce, she asked him about our depth and possibly pushing the pace to wear us down. He emphatically stated that the pace was going to change in the second half, and it didn't. I was so puzzled by that. And secondly...why in the world did he not put Miles Bridges at the free throw line against the zone. I was waiting for that to happen almost as if it were a given, but he didn't do it. I feel that he would have absolutely crushed us there. I love Izzo, but man did he let his team down in that game.

 

[Cheriehoop]

They couldn't hit the broad side of a barn yesterday. They took the bait, hook, line and sinker of a zone and launched 37 three pointers to our 8. They could and did out muscle us for rebounds but exposed the inability of their guards to penetrate or make 3's under duress. Their most open shots were on the perimeter and even 2 of their made 8 three pointers were prayer banked ones.

What's amazing is that they took 29 shots inside the arc and made just 9 of them while we drove taking 34 shots inside the arc making 14 of them. We took it inside to them more than they did and despite all their offensive rebounds, we made more of them.

 

[Shark58]

Izzo made lots of mistakes beyond the ones correctly spelled out in the OP

he never really pressured the ball, esp after Frank got his 5th

 

[BlackSquirrels]

I think it's possible that Izzo and his staff have spent so much time covering up crimes over the years that they don't have the same fire for scouting and game planning that they once did.

 

[OrangeFoo]

I can't envision another reason why they would be so thoroughly unprepared -- I mean, they went 30-4 prior to facing us. They were one of the best statistical offenses in the country, they were huge inside, had depth, etc. And yet, they looked inept.

I don't know if it was unpreparedness or not... but the recipe for beating the zone is actually pretty well known - get the ball into the logo either by pass or by dribbling it and have that dude initiate the offense by either passing it to a cutter once the D collapses or kicking it back out for a wide open three. We by far have more trouble with teams that can use the dribble to get to the logo because the dribbler sucks in the whole D. In my eyes MSU had no one who could penetrate the zone with the dribble so they were forced to pass it into the middle which made it a lot easier for our guys to deny the pass or smother it once it got there. Even having said that, they did get some good looks out of that action but ended up missing wide open threes. The other thing that really hurt MSU was that the person who would get the ball at the logo had ZERO desire to shoot the ball and in fact basically crapped his pants trying to get it out of there which allowed our guys to guard the cutters instead of collapsing on the logo guy. One other observation is that typically the teams that hurt us the most have an athletic slasher or two who an run the baseline and get dunks off the dump in to the logo action... MSU had no one who could do that consistently which meant that the few times they were able to get the logo guy to find a cutter we had success defending the rim with the weak side defender.

The only player on the MSU team who seemed to have the athletic ability to compete with our athletes was Miles Bridges... I think Izzo wasted him on the perimeter. If I were Izzo I would have had Bridges at the logo and had him initiate the offense from there. And I would have had Jackson as the cutter along the baseline instead of the more rotund dude. Instead Izzzo had Jackson posted at the logo or that white dude off the bench... Jackson was completely overwhelmed and the bench guy, while he fared a little better, was still not good enough.

This is why Duke is going to be such a tough matchup... They can put Bagley or the other big dude at the logo and he can easily initiate the offense from there and they have their other big guy to do a ton of damage on the baseline. Additionally their guards can get to the logo with the dribble also. I don't think we can hold Duke to a low enough score that our poor poor offense can overcome. The only way we win is if Battle, Brissett, Howard have career days on offense.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

I don't know if it was unpreparedness or not... but the recipe for beating the zone is actually pretty well known - get the ball into the logo either by pass or by dribbling it and have that dude initiate the offense by either passing it to a cutter once the D collapses or kicking it back out for a wide open three. We by far have more trouble with teams that can use the dribble to get to the logo because the dribbler sucks in the whole D. In my eyes MSU had no one who could penetrate the zone with the dribble so they were forced to pass it into the middle which made it a lot easier for our guys to deny the pass or smother it once it got there. Even having said that, they did get some good looks out of that action but ended up missing wide open threes. The other thing that really hurt MSU was that the person who would get the ball at the logo had ZERO desire to shoot the ball and in fact basically crapped his pants trying to get it out of there which allowed our guys to guard the cutters instead of collapsing on the logo guy. One other observation is that typically the teams that hurt us the most have an athletic slasher or two who an run the baseline and get dunks off the dump in to the logo action... MSU had no one who could do that consistently which meant that the few times they were able to get the logo guy to find a cutter we had success defending the rim with the weak side defender.

The only player on the MSU team who seemed to have the athletic ability to compete with our athletes was Miles Bridges... I think Izzo wasted him on the perimeter. If I were Izzo I would have had Bridges at the logo and had him initiate the offense from there. And I would have had Jackson as the cutter along the baseline instead of the more rotund dude. Instead Izzzo had Jackson posted at the logo or that white dude off the bench... Jackson was completely overwhelmed and the bench guy, while he fared a little better, was still not good enough.

This is why Duke is going to be such a tough matchup... They can put Bagley or the other big dude at the logo and he can easily initiate the offense from there and they have their other big guy to do a ton of damage on the baseline. Additionally their guards can get to the logo with the dribble also. I don't think we can hold Duke to a low enough score that our poor poor offense can overcome. The only way we win is if Battle, Brissett, Howard have career days on offense.

Well, in our loss to Duke, we held them to 60 points, which was their close to lowest, if not lowest score for the year. Granted, Syracuse only scored 44 points in that game (which no one was scoring). If the Cuse can generate more scoring in the next game, it could end in a pleasant surprise. Syracuse needs to be more efficient in attacking the zone.

 

[longislandcuse]

We're not sucking in as much as we used to. They put Carter in because he's apparently a great passer and they wanted him to hit the open shooter on a kickout or high-low to the baseline.

Our guards/wings never sucked in too far and Chukwu/Sidibe just took a step forward to be in his vision but never committed. We let him and whoever was there take that shot. They wouldn't or couldn't.

 

[corpjet]

Izzo made lots of mistakes beyond the ones correctly spelled out in the OP

he never really pressured the ball, esp after Frank got his 5th

The only reason why I don't think they did is they had 10 fouls I believe at that point, they didn't want to give us 2 free throws on a cheap foul

 

[AZOrange]

I was shocked how fat and unathletic most of them were.

I mean compare someone like Bridges and Bagley from a POY perspective. It’s laughable

 

[OrangeFoo]

Well, in our loss to Duke, we held them to 60 points, which was their close to lowest, if not lowest score for the year. Granted, Syracuse only scored 44 points in that game (which no one was scoring). If the Cuse can generate more scoring in the next game, it could end in a pleasant surprise. Syracuse needs to be more efficient in attacking the zone.

If nothing else the fact that we wind down every possession to less than 10 seconds will by default limit their scoring...lets say they get 30 possessions a half (1.5 per minute) or 60 a game... they score on 45% of the possessions or 27 of those possessions. Let's say 40% of those possessions are 3 points (32 pts) and 60% are 2 points (32pts)... that gets you to 65 pts). My guess is typically Duke gets closer to 80 possessions per game which at the same shooting percentages is over 80 point per game.

 

[RF2044]

I was shocked how fat and unathletic most of them were.

I mean compare someone like Bridges and Bagley from a POY perspective. It’s laughable

Bridges is vastly overrated. And I'm not just saying that as a function of yesterday's outcome.

 

[Shark58]

The only reason why I don't think they did is they had 10 fouls I believe at that point, they didn't want to give us 2 free throws on a cheap foul

plausible, but stupid none the less

 

[VaBeachOrFan]

Two stats stood out most for me: (1) MSU outrebounded the Orange by 21, yet we won; (2) MSU made 7 more 3s that the Orange, yet we won!! What other team does that??-VBOF

 

[RF2044]

Two stats stood out most for me: (1) MSU outrebounded the Orange by 21, yet we won; (2) MSU mad 7 more 3s that the Orange, yet we won!! What other team does that??-VBOF

It's unprecedented. I mean, just think about if somebody had told you those two statistics before the game, what you would expect the outcome to be.

 

[Doc5120]

From a statistical standpoint, I'm still trying to figure out how we won. I can't - but I don't care. Our defense was amazing, Izzo made some bonehead coaching moves and we won a grinder, which is how we win. It ain't pretty, but a win is a win!

 

[Vorony]

It's also possible that Izzo just doesn't know how to game plan for the zone. Isn't JB something like 5-1 against Izzo now? Kind of shocking to me, given the HOF status. But his record against JB, Coach K, and Roy Williams is not good.

 

[Jasoncuse]

Number one, there is no doubt in my mind that Michigan State looked past us. They looked completely unprepared to play the zone, they quickly got away from what they did best, and their players looked frustrated and then rattled down the stretch. Without looking at the statistics [because I don't think that they were quite ineffectual], but it reminded me of how the Indiana backcourt got pwned in terms of how poorly they played. I think that they expected an easy game, since they've steamrolled most opponents this year, and might have got caught looking ahead. Their players looked lost and confused the majority of the game.

Secondly, Izzo really coached poorly. You would think that they would have attacked us inside, with both of our bigs in foul trouble the majority of the game, and with Dolezaj manning the pivot late. Instead, they swung it around the perimeter and settled for threes. Brandon Bayer played nearly 7 minutes of game time, and not once did they try to isolate / attack him as potentially the weak link defensively. All signs of poor coaching, IMO.

I thought MSU looked nothing like a top 5 team that they've been billed as. They beat up on non-Tourney teams all year and hadn't a clue on how to beat the zone. That's 100% on the overrated Izzo. Why did they play that dude Carter for 20+ minutes? Why Tillman over Ward/Jackson? Why McQuaid for so long? Not only did he not know how to beat the zone, he didn't put his best players on the court.

They should've had Bridges at the FT area the whole game instead of launching corner 3's. He could've attacked like crazy from that spot even if he wasn't super confident in knocking down the 15-18 footers. He's their best player and they basically turned him into a catch and shoot guy only.

As for Bayer, yes, I agree, why didn't they overload his side more? He did seem to play the zone very well, so much credit to BB. My biggest question was why did they bother covering him when we had the ball? Why not just double Tyus for 75 feet? Force Bayer (and Chukwu/Moyer/Sidibe) to do something. Instead they let Tyus basically burn clock unencumbered and allowed Oshae space to make some plays. With no Frank, it should've been an easy move to force the non-factors to do something.

 

[NineOneSeven]

I thought MSU looked nothing like a top 5 team that they've been billed as. They beat up on non-Tourney teams all year and hadn't a clue on how to beat the zone. That's 100% on the overrated Izzo. Why did they play that dude Carter for 20+ minutes? Why Tillman over Ward/Jackson? Why McQuaid for so long? Not only did he not know how to beat the zone, he didn't put his best players on the court.

They should've had Bridges at the FT area the whole game instead of launching corner 3's. He could've attacked like crazy from that spot even if he wasn't super confident in knocking down the 15-18 footers. He's their best player and they basically turned him into a catch and shoot guy only.

As for Bayer, yes, I agree, why didn't they overload his side more? He did seem to play the zone very well, so much credit to BB. My biggest question was why did they bother covering him when we had the ball? Why not just double Tyus for 75 feet? Force Bayer (and Chukwu/Moyer/Sidibe) to do something. Instead they let Tyus basically burn clock unencumbered and allowed Oshae space to make some plays. With no Frank, it should've been an easy move to force the non-factors to do something.

The fact carter and tillman played more than ward and Jackson is historically bad.

 

[kuethstheman]

It's also possible that Izzo just doesn't know how to game plan for the zone. Isn't JB something like 5-1 against Izzo now? Kind of shocking to me, given the HOF status. But his record against JB, Coach K, and Roy Williams is not good.

Remember the one win? A total dismantling of the zone after half-time adjustments. Worst I've ever seen. At that point, I never wanted to play Izzo again. I'm shocked that he hasn't won any against us since.

 

[phil77]

Izzo in his halftime interview seemed more concerned about pushing the pace instead of working the ball to get a good shot. The game plan was to push the pace and when that didn't happen they were unprepared in the half court set. They had the wrong guy in the middle of the zone and had no clue what to do. Izzo made no halftime adjustments just stated we need to push the pace more. Terrible coaching job by him IMO.

 

[shermstheman]

Bridges is vastly overrated. And I'm not just saying that as a function of yesterday's outcome.

We all said the same thing about Harden and Olidipo when Cuse took them to the woodshed- wonder if he will end up in their class. He was not impressive though