Uh oh- CJ NBA talk

[Timonen]

Chad Ford just tweeted that scouts are talking about Fair as a possible first rounder

 

[samspann1]

Don't see it, especially now that his jumper has seemingly vanished.

 

[jekelish]

He's only a "potential 1st rounder" at this point. I cannot imagine that's enough to get him to jump. He can come back next year and be a 1st Team All-American.

 

[RF2044]

Inevitable, given the year he's had.

I, too, expect him to return next year--but if they win it all, I wouldn't begrudge him one way or the other.

 

[Orangezoo]

Inevitable, given the year he's had.

I, too, expect him to return next year--but if they win it all, I wouldn't begrudge him one way or the other.

completely agree.. if he could come back with a right hand and better handle he could definitely be a 1rst rounder in 2014

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah, count me in the party that just doesn't see it happening this year. He's still far too limited to be considered a 1st rounder IMO.

 

[jdubs30]

I love CJ, but he'll never be anything more than a fringe NBA player.

 

[2-3zone]

look for CJ to enter his name and go through the NBA workouts and if then he is still looked at as a 1st rounder he should go if not withdraw his name and return to SU

 

[RF2044]

I love CJ, but he'll never be anything more than a fringe NBA player.

Which, of course, has nothing to do with whether he's a great college player or not.

He'll play in the NBA. Whether he "stars" or not doesn't change how good of a player he's been throughout his Syracuse career.

 

[Melancer46]

look for CJ to enter his name and go through the NBA workouts and if then he is still looked at as a 1st rounder he should go if not withdraw his name and return to SU

Can't do that anymore. It's a new rule in place.

 

[jdubs30]

Which, of course, has nothing to do with whether he's a great college player or not.

He'll play in the NBA. Whether he "stars" or not doesn't change how good of a player he's been throughout his Syracuse career.

Oh I totally agree. He's one of my favorites of all time and is a superb collegiate player. I see no reason why he won't be a 1st team All-American next year.

 

[OrangeDW]

They probably tell about 50 kids they're possible 1st rounders every year.

CJ does not have outside shooting range for the NBA level, his ball handling is not very good for an NBA SF, his passing ability is nonexistent. Defense is an unknown. I think he has the tools to be a good man defender, but you don't know.

I'm trying to figure out what the NBA would like about him to make him a first round pick, at this point. I'd say his ability to finish creatively when going to the hole, and "nose for the basket" and his leaping ability would seem to be his biggest pluses. And he has good intangibles in that he makes big plays when they are needed, and plays within himself and generally does things that he's good at, and doesn't do dumb things.

Obviously his shot has improved a ton at the college level, but it's not NBA level yet. Slow release, range, and ability to shoot off the dribble would all seem to be issues. He is getting there though. Anoher lefty, Michael Redd, was not known as a shooter in college and then developed into one of the best in the NBA, so with the way CJ is making a high % from outside now, I think it will be a bigger part of his game next year.

Honestly see him as a 2nd round pick as a senior type. Is he really any better of an NBA prospect than Joseph?

Fair is a very good college player, and one of my all time favorites. But he looks like an NBA long shot to me...though with another big imorovement from junior to senior year, he could make it.

 

[Orange&Blue44]

They probably tell about 50 kids they're possible 1st rounders every year.

CJ does not have outside shooting range for the NBA level, his ball handling is not very good for an NBA SF, his passing ability is nonexistent. Defense is an unknown. I think he has the tools to be a good man defender, but you don't know.

I'm trying to figure out what the NBA would like about him to make him a first round pick, at this point. I'd say his ability to finish creatively when going to the hole, and "nose for the basket" and his leaping ability would seem to be his biggest pluses. And he has good intangibles in that he makes big plays when they are needed, and plays within himself and generally does things that he's good at, and doesn't do dumb things.

Obviously his shot has improved a ton at the college level, but it's not NBA level yet. Slow release, range, and ability to shoot off the dribble would all seem to be issues. He is getting there though. Anoher lefty, Michael Redd, was not known as a shooter in college and then developed into one of the best in the NBA, so with the way CJ is making a high % from outside now, I think it will be a bigger part of his game next year.

Honestly see him as a 2nd round pick as a senior type. Is he really any better of an NBA prospect than Joseph?

Fair is a very good college player, and one of my all time favorites. But he looks like an NBA long shot to me...though with another big imorovement from junior to senior year, he could make it.

Your assessment could be dead on, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I Love CJ, and I drink Orange Kool-Aid.

Unlike

 

[jdubs30]

They probably tell about 50 kids they're possible 1st rounders every year.

CJ does not have outside shooting range for the NBA level, his ball handling is not very good for an NBA SF, his passing ability is nonexistent. Defense is an unknown. I think he has the tools to be a good man defender, but you don't know.

I'm trying to figure out what the NBA would like about him to make him a first round pick, at this point. I'd say his ability to finish creatively when going to the hole, and "nose for the basket" and his leaping ability would seem to be his biggest pluses. And he has good intangibles in that he makes big plays when they are needed, and plays within himself and generally does things that he's good at, and doesn't do dumb things.

Obviously his shot has improved a ton at the college level, but it's not NBA level yet. Slow release, range, and ability to shoot off the dribble would all seem to be issues. He is getting there though. Anoher lefty, Michael Redd, was not known as a shooter in college and then developed into one of the best in the NBA, so with the way CJ is making a high % from outside now, I think it will be a bigger part of his game next year.

Honestly see him as a 2nd round pick as a senior type. Is he really any better of an NBA prospect than Joseph?

Fair is a very good college player, and one of my all time favorites. But he looks like an NBA long shot to me...though with another big imorovement from junior to senior year, he could make it.

Agreed. He doesn't have NBA potential either, for all the reasons you mentioned. We all know NBA tams will take chances on people they think have great potential, and unfortunately I don't see that for CJ.

 

[Melancer46]

They probably tell about 50 kids they're possible 1st rounders every year.

CJ does not have outside shooting range for the NBA level, his ball handling is not very good for an NBA SF, his passing ability is nonexistent. Defense is an unknown. I think he has the tools to be a good man defender, but you don't know.

I'm trying to figure out what the NBA would like about him to make him a first round pick, at this point. I'd say his ability to finish creatively when going to the hole, and "nose for the basket" and his leaping ability would seem to be his biggest pluses. And he has good intangibles in that he makes big plays when they are needed, and plays within himself and generally does things that he's good at, and doesn't do dumb things.

Obviously his shot has improved a ton at the college level, but it's not NBA level yet. Slow release, range, and ability to shoot off the dribble would all seem to be issues. He is getting there though. Anoher lefty, Michael Redd, was not known as a shooter in college and then developed into one of the best in the NBA, so with the way CJ is making a high % from outside now, I think it will be a bigger part of his game next year.

Honestly see him as a 2nd round pick as a senior type. Is he really any better of an NBA prospect than Joseph?

Fair is a very good college player, and one of my all time favorites. But he looks like an NBA long shot to me...though with another big imorovement from junior to senior year, he could make it.

At this point in time, Joseph was a far better NBA prospect than Fair currently is. That's not to say Fair can't add to his game and become a better prospect, but I personally think he'll have a hard time making an NBA team unless he improves a lot. From an NBA player perspective, he has more negatives than pluses in my opinion.

 

[MikeSU02]

I hope we win it all and CJ goes in the first round.

Keep winning and putting kids in the NBA.

CJ is already a junior. The goal is to get to the league for them. Good for him.

 

[RF2044]

At this point in time, Joseph was a far better NBA prospect than Fair currently is. That's not to say Fair can't add to his game and become a better prospect, but I personally think he'll have a hard time making an NBA team unless he improves a lot. From an NBA player perspective, he has more negatives than pluses in my opinion.

I don't know that I agree with that assessment. CJ Fair does everything better than Joseph, with the lone exception of handling the ball in the open floor. He's superior in every other respect.

I expect CJ to show improvement vis a vis putting the ball on the floor this offseason. But in terms of him versus Joseph on the same point of their respective developmental curves [junior year], I'd say that CJ is out in front.

 

[TheCusian]

Agreed. He doesn't have NBA potential either, for all the reasons you mentioned. We all know NBA tams will take chances on people they think have great potential, and unfortunately I don't see that for CJ.

Much respect - but he will be a role player in the NBA. His shot is pure, just needs more reps. He blocks a lot of shots and is fine defensively. He has a really solid mid-range game, still a high value asset for an NBA player. He is an average rebounder - but not a negative.

If Jimmy Butler can get run with the Bulls, CJ will be fine. He's a better player now than Jimmy was in his JR year.

All of that being said - I think he'd be best served by another year. Next year he is poised to be the man.

 

[OrangeDW]

I don't know that I agree with that assessment. CJ Fair does everything better than Joseph, with the lone exception of handling the ball in the open floor. He's superior in every other respect.

I expect CJ to show improvement vis a vis putting the ball on the floor this offseason. But in terms of him versus Joseph on the same point of their respective developmental curves [junior year], I'd say that CJ is out in front.

I would say Joseph had a better off hand and is a better passer than CJ.

Not that Joseph was a great passer or anything, but that aspect of CJs game doesn't really exist.

Joseph would over dribble and try to do things off the dribble that he wasn't quite capable of, which is more a problem with his decision making than his handle itself IMO. CJ's ability to go right is noticeably lacking, though it seems that it's starting to improve.

 

[OrangeDW]

Your assessment could be dead on, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. I Love CJ, and I drink Orange Kool-Aid.

Unlike

My assessment of him at the college level would read much differently. He's a very good college bball player and to even be talked about in an NBA context shows how good he is. Most college players don't have a chance.

And honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he makes the NBA and sticks, and I hope he does. I would be very surprised if he's a first round pick, at this point though.

 

[Melancer46]

I would say Joseph had a better off hand and is a better passer than CJ.

Not that Joseph was a great passer or anything, but that aspect of CJs game doesn't really exist.

Joseph would over dribble and try to do things off the dribble that he wasn't quite capable of, which is more a problem with his decision making than his handle itself IMO. CJ's ability to go right is noticeably lacking, though it seems that it's starting to improve.

This.

To me, the three things Fair does better than Joseph at the NBA level are:
1. Low-post game
2. Rebounding
3. Defensive potential

But if we're considering them both to be SFs at the next level (which I think is where Fair will have to play), Joseph is better at:
1. Ball-handling by a good margin
2. Passing by a good margin
3. Creating his own scoring opportunities off the dribble by a pretty good margin

To me, the difference is that Joseph is better at the things that are important for a SF and at least semi-close in the things that Fair is better at.

 

[Timonen]

See, there's lots of analysis here that says what he should be...but that isn't really the point if he thinks he may be picked. It's a terrible draft and the market could make him a first rounder. Just saying that there are a dozen guys who come out every year that might be better off coming back.

But I agree with the point that if we win it all and he's the reason, god bless you and go get paid.

 

[Opus]

So be it. I'm not a judge of talent so who knows. I guess a lot of my fellow Orange fans are. I am so over any player having an

allegiance to their team (school) and vice versa. It is a business. I wish him well if that is his decision. I just care about Syracuse. Now about Michigan...

 

[RF2044]

This.

To me, the three things Fair does better than Joseph at the NBA level are:
1. Low-post game
2. Rebounding
3. Defensive potential

But if we're considering them both to be SFs at the next level (which I think is where Fair will have to play), Joseph is better at:
1. Ball-handling by a good margin
2. Passing by a good margin
3. Creating his own scoring opportunities off the dribble by a pretty good margin

To me, the difference is that Joseph is better at the things that are important for a SF and at least semi-close in the things that Fair is better at.

That sells Fair way short. Fair is better at each of the following than Joseph:

1. Rebounding
2. Defense
3. Mid-range shooting -- a non-existent aspect of Joseph's game
4. Three point shooting
5. Shot-blocking
6. Finishing inside
7. Posting up [not a huge strength, but another non-existent aspect of Joseph's game]
8. Game instincts / avoiding mistakes / turnovers

That's a pretty extensive list.

I'll grant that Joseph was more willing to handle the ball--chalk that up in Joseph's favor. I disagree that he was better at "creating his own scoring opportunities off of the dribble." Joseph dribbled--a lot--often overdribbling into trouble.

In my mind, Fair is a lot like Joseph, just better in just about every skill dimension [with the notable exception of open floor ball handling]. And I'm a big Joseph fan--not trying to knock him, but by just about every measurable aspect of the game, CJ is better and more productive.

I also expect him to show improved ball handling next year, and to expand his ability to attack off of the bounce. We're already starting to see more aptitude now--he'll handle the ball with more purposeful intent next year.

 

[alphaorange]

With some improvement in ball handling and range (both are very doable), he could be a Chris Copeland (Knicks) type player. A stretch 4. He is actually much more athletic, though.