UNC Academic Fraud Details

[itsbotime]

Sara Ganim is all over this and has been for a year or more. She broke the Pedst scandal and is now with CNN.

Ganim is not a credible source in this matter. She hinged her story on Willingham and Willingham turned out to be a fraud.

To the others that have quoted me thus far-

Look, I'm not arguing that this isn't bad. It is terrible. I'm embarrassed about it. I also wish I knew about these classes when I was at UNC (GPA could have used another A or two). But, as far as basketball is concerned, you have Wainstein confirming that Roy Williams was not involved in the scheme, and knew nothing of it. Reading the report, it is clear that many people-from those in athletics to those in fraternities and sororities-knew that these classes were "Easy A's". The number of people who knew that these courses were illegitimate were much, much fewer. You had academic counseling staff steering all students who were borderline academically to these classes so that they could boost their GPAs, but these counselors did not know that Crowder was grading the papers, that she didn't read them very thoroughly, etc. You had a small crowd that DID know this-namely in football and women's basketball.

If you are a student and you sign up for an independent studies course, you do the work, you submit the paper, and you get your grade back, you probably didn't think anything of it. How would you know that the person grading your paper wasn't authorized to grade? You signed up for this class just like you did any other, did the work, and moved on.

At the end of the day, this was an academic scandal that some in athletics chose to exploit. It was a scandal organized by one person, according to Wainstein, because she was tired of seeing students (all students, not just athletes) struggle and wanted to help them out. Many benefited from it. You also had Wainstein dispelling common notions-that the classes didn't involve work, everything that McCants said, that athletics created the scandal, etc. Mixed bag.

If you read the report, Roy comes across better than any of the coaches of faculty, along with Fedora. I don't see how the NCAA would punish the coaches who didn't do anything wrong. Women's BBall looks screwed, though, and rightfully so.

Hopefully, this investigation triggers other investigations at other universities. It isn't like there is a special pool of athletes that only UNC recruits. UNC recruits the same ballers that Duke does, that Kansas does, that Michigan State does, etc. These players stay eligible at all these schools somehow. We saw how UNC did it. Now, let's see how everyone else does it. I guarantee that UNC isn't alone.

 

[rrlbees]

Ganim is not a credible source in this matter. She hinged her story on Willingham and Willingham turned out to be a fraud. To the others that have quoted me thus far- Look, I'm not arguing that this isn't bad. It is terrible. I'm embarrassed about it. I also wish I knew about these classes when I was at UNC (GPA could have used another A or two). But, as far as basketball is concerned, you have Wainstein confirming that Roy Williams was not involved in the scheme, and knew nothing of it. Reading the report, it is clear that many people-from those in athletics to those in fraternities and sororities-knew that these classes were "Easy A's". The number of people who knew that these courses were illegitimate were much, much fewer. You had academic counseling staff steering all students who were borderline academically to these classes so that they could boost their GPAs, but these counselors did not know that Crowder was grading the papers, that she didn't read them very thoroughly, etc. You had a small crowd that DID know this-namely in football and women's basketball. If you are a student and you sign up for an independent studies course, you do the work, you submit the paper, and you get your grade back, you probably didn't think anything of it. How would you know that the person grading your paper wasn't authorized to grade? You signed up for this class just like you did any other, did the work, and moved on. At the end of the day, this was an academic scandal that some in athletics chose to exploit. It was a scandal organized by one person, according to Wainstein, because she was tired of seeing students (all students, not just athletes) struggle and wanted to help them out. Many benefited from it. You also had Wainstein dispelling common notions-that the classes didn't involve work, everything that McCants said, that athletics created the scandal, etc. Mixed bag. If you read the report, Roy comes across better than any of the coaches of faculty, along with Fedora. I don't see how the NCAA would punish the coaches who didn't do anything wrong. Women's BBall looks screwed, though, and rightfully so. Hopefully, this investigation triggers other investigations at other universities. It isn't like there is a special pool of athletes that only UNC recruits. UNC recruits the same ballers that Duke does, that Kansas does, that Michigan State does, etc. These players stay eligible at all these schools somehow. We saw how UNC did it. Now, let's see how everyone else does it. I guarantee that UNC isn't alone.

Easy to say Ganim isn't credible. But she was right about Pedst when Pedst said she was FOS. Now she's was right a year ago when UNC said she was FOS. Looks like Willingham was right too. Both have been more right than you.

 

[72Cuse]

Ganim is not a credible source in this matter. She hinged her story on Willingham and Willingham turned out to be a fraud.

To the others that have quoted me thus far-

Look, I'm not arguing that this isn't bad. It is terrible. I'm embarrassed about it. I also wish I knew about these classes when I was at UNC (GPA could have used another A or two). But, as far as basketball is concerned, you have Wainstein confirming that Roy Williams was not involved in the scheme, and knew nothing of it. Reading the report, it is clear that many people-from those in athletics to those in fraternities and sororities-knew that these classes were "Easy A's". The number of people who knew that these courses were illegitimate were much, much fewer. You had academic counseling staff steering all students who were borderline academically to these classes so that they could boost their GPAs, but these counselors did not know that Crowder was grading the papers, that she didn't read them very thoroughly, etc. You had a small crowd that DID know this-namely in football and women's basketball.

If you are a student and you sign up for an independent studies course, you do the work, you submit the paper, and you get your grade back, you probably didn't think anything of it. How would you know that the person grading your paper wasn't authorized to grade? You signed up for this class just like you did any other, did the work, and moved on.

At the end of the day, this was an academic scandal that some in athletics chose to exploit. It was a scandal organized by one person, according to Wainstein, because she was tired of seeing students (all students, not just athletes) struggle and wanted to help them out. Many benefited from it. You also had Wainstein dispelling common notions-that the classes didn't involve work, everything that McCants said, that athletics created the scandal, etc. Mixed bag.

If you read the report, Roy comes across better than any of the coaches of faculty, along with Fedora. I don't see how the NCAA would punish the coaches who didn't do anything wrong. Women's BBall looks screwed, though, and rightfully so.

Hopefully, this investigation triggers other investigations at other universities. It isn't like there is a special pool of athletes that only UNC recruits. UNC recruits the same ballers that Duke does, that Kansas does, that Michigan State does, etc. These players stay eligible at all these schools somehow. We saw how UNC did it. Now, let's see how everyone else does it. I guarantee that UNC isn't alone.

It's good Coach Williams is exonerated, the others not so good. What about the AD and others in senior administration?

 

[rrlbees]

Ganim is not a credible source in this matter. She hinged her story on Willingham and Willingham turned out to be a fraud. To the others that have quoted me thus far- Look, I'm not arguing that this isn't bad. It is terrible. I'm embarrassed about it. I also wish I knew about these classes when I was at UNC (GPA could have used another A or two). But, as far as basketball is concerned, you have Wainstein confirming that Roy Williams was not involved in the scheme, and knew nothing of it. Reading the report, it is clear that many people-from those in athletics to those in fraternities and sororities-knew that these classes were "Easy A's". The number of people who knew that these courses were illegitimate were much, much fewer. You had academic counseling staff steering all students who were borderline academically to these classes so that they could boost their GPAs, but these counselors did not know that Crowder was grading the papers, that she didn't read them very thoroughly, etc. You had a small crowd that DID know this-namely in football and women's basketball. If you are a student and you sign up for an independent studies course, you do the work, you submit the paper, and you get your grade back, you probably didn't think anything of it. How would you know that the person grading your paper wasn't authorized to grade? You signed up for this class just like you did any other, did the work, and moved on. At the end of the day, this was an academic scandal that some in athletics chose to exploit. It was a scandal organized by one person, according to Wainstein, because she was tired of seeing students (all students, not just athletes) struggle and wanted to help them out. Many benefited from it. You also had Wainstein dispelling common notions-that the classes didn't involve work, everything that McCants said, that athletics created the scandal, etc. Mixed bag. If you read the report, Roy comes across better than any of the coaches of faculty, along with Fedora. I don't see how the NCAA would punish the coaches who didn't do anything wrong. Women's BBall looks screwed, though, and rightfully so. Hopefully, this investigation triggers other investigations at other universities. It isn't like there is a special pool of athletes that only UNC recruits. UNC recruits the same ballers that Duke does, that Kansas does, that Michigan State does, etc. These players stay eligible at all these schools somehow. We saw how UNC did it. Now, let's see how everyone else does it. I guarantee that UNC isn't alone.

Btw, you ignore the fact that academic advisors on the athletic staffs admitted they steered athletes to these courses so they could stay eligible and play. And I wouldn't describe these as easy A courses. I'd say they were automatic A courses or whatever grade an athlete needed.

 

[sdhusky]

Ganim is not a credible source in this matter. She hinged her story on Willingham and Willingham turned out to be a fraud.

To the others that have quoted me thus far-

Look, I'm not arguing that this isn't bad. It is terrible. I'm embarrassed about it. I also wish I knew about these classes when I was at UNC (GPA could have used another A or two). But, as far as basketball is concerned, you have Wainstein confirming that Roy Williams was not involved in the scheme, and knew nothing of it. Reading the report, it is clear that many people-from those in athletics to those in fraternities and sororities-knew that these classes were "Easy A's". The number of people who knew that these courses were illegitimate were much, much fewer. You had academic counseling staff steering all students who were borderline academically to these classes so that they could boost their GPAs, but these counselors did not know that Crowder was grading the papers, that she didn't read them very thoroughly, etc. You had a small crowd that DID know this-namely in football and women's basketball.

If you are a student and you sign up for an independent studies course, you do the work, you submit the paper, and you get your grade back, you probably didn't think anything of it. How would you know that the person grading your paper wasn't authorized to grade? You signed up for this class just like you did any other, did the work, and moved on.

At the end of the day, this was an academic scandal that some in athletics chose to exploit. It was a scandal organized by one person, according to Wainstein, because she was tired of seeing students (all students, not just athletes) struggle and wanted to help them out. Many benefited from it. You also had Wainstein dispelling common notions-that the classes didn't involve work, everything that McCants said, that athletics created the scandal, etc. Mixed bag.

If you read the report, Roy comes across better than any of the coaches of faculty, along with Fedora. I don't see how the NCAA would punish the coaches who didn't do anything wrong. Women's BBall looks screwed, though, and rightfully so.

Hopefully, this investigation triggers other investigations at other universities. It isn't like there is a special pool of athletes that only UNC recruits. UNC recruits the same ballers that Duke does, that Kansas does, that Michigan State does, etc. These players stay eligible at all these schools somehow. We saw how UNC did it. Now, let's see how everyone else does it. I guarantee that UNC isn't alone.

I think banners should come down and the Frats and Sororities graduates who attended those classes should have to take a real class or forfiet their degrees.

Carolina Way = Cheat, but be smug about it.

 

[Oakland]

Hey SD, is there a spin doctor like itsbotime on the Husky board?

I think banners should come down and the Frats and Sororities graduates who attended those classes should have to take a real class or forfiet their degrees.

Carolina Way = Cheat, but be smug about it.

 

[itsbotime]

Easy to say Ganim isn't credible. But she was right about Pedst when Pedst said she was FOS. Now she's was right a year ago when UNC said she was FOS. Looks like Willingham was right too. Both have been more right than you.

No, Willingham wasn't right. Her numbers were made up and she has been busted in numerous lies. Her response to plagiarizing her Masters thesis was, verbatim, "I did what I did, and, you know, whatever." I can only imagine the reaction if UNC used the same response in their PC yesterday.

 

[itsbotime]

It's good Coach Williams is exonerated, the others not so good. What about the AD and others in senior administration?

The AD came here after the scheme ended (Wainstein said it came to an end in 2011), so he didn't have a part in it. And, from the report, it appears that a lot of people knew that the classes were easy A classes, but very few knew the exact reason why (namely, that Crowder was grading the papers herself).

The entire scandal is based on the fact that a secretary graded the papers. If the exact same thing happened but a prof or TA was the one grading, this would barely even be a scandal. It would simply be a case of people gravitating or being steered towards easy classes, which happens literally everywhere.

 

[72Cuse]

The AD came here after the scheme ended (Wainstein said it came to an end in 2011), so he didn't have a part in it. And, from the report, it appears that a lot of people knew that the classes were easy A classes, but very few knew the exact reason why (namely, that Crowder was grading the papers herself).

The entire scandal is based on the fact that a secretary graded the papers. If the exact same thing happened but a prof or TA was the one grading, this would barely even be a scandal. It would simply be a case of people gravitating or being steered towards easy classes, which happens literally everywhere.

OK Thanks. Hope we both fare well.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Watching a uconn and unc fan argue on a Syracuse message board is
A mindfk

 

[rrlbees]

No, Willingham wasn't right. Her numbers were made up and she has been busted in numerous lies. Her response to plagiarizing her Masters thesis was, verbatim, "I did what I did, and, you know, whatever." I can only imagine the reaction if UNC used the same response in their PC yesterday.

Who cares about her personal ethics? Has nothing to do with being right about the largest academic scandal ever in athletics. And stop with the secretary graded the papers BS. If it wasn't her it'd be someone else. The athletic academic advisors had players take these courses to stay eligible.

 

[AirForceOrange]

I am so confused...it must be the end of world...end of times type stuff like cats dogs living together, liberals and conservatives agreeing and Syracuse fans on the side of a UConn fan...all we need is Marsh coming in here agreeing with Sdhusky and that will confirm the apocalypse is indeed here...

 

[rrlbees]

The entire scandal is based on the fact that a secretary graded the papers.

Well, not really.

"Wainstein, however, also found that academic advisers who worked closely with the athletic department regularly steered athletes to these classes for the specific purpose of raising their grades, going so far on some occasions as to advise Crowder what grades were needed to maintain eligibility."

"Wainstein's report makes clear that the motivation was largely rooted in a desire to help athletes."

 

[itsbotime]

Who cares about her personal ethics? Has nothing to do with being right about the largest academic scandal ever in athletics. And stop with the secretary graded the papers BS. If it wasn't her it'd be someone else. The athletic academic advisors had players take these courses to stay eligible.

Agree that this is the largest academic scandal ever in athletics, only because UNC is the first school to have had the academic/athletic connection investigated so thoroughly. One of one...it is the largest and also the smallest. If every school was investigated like UNC, I doubt UNC would be anywhere near the top. Like I said, UNC recruits the same ballers that every other school does. UNC isn't the only school that has to find ways to keep them eligible-not by a long shot. No other school has opened itself up to such a thorough examination.

 

[itsbotime]

Well, not really.

"Wainstein, however, also found that academic advisers who worked closely with the athletic department regularly steered athletes to these classes for the specific purpose of raising their grades, going so far on some occasions as to advise Crowder what grades were needed to maintain eligibility."

"Wainstein's report makes clear that the motivation was largely rooted in a desire to help athletes."

If the advisers thought that the classes were "easy A's", it makes sense that they would steer at-risk students to them. And, according to the Wainstein report, football staff advised Crowder what grades the players needed, but she ignored these recommendations-everyone got A's and B's, not just athletes.

 

[CuseHulk]

itsbotime = Mike Flaherty

 

[rrlbees]

If the advisers thought that the classes were "easy A's", it makes sense that they would steer at-risk students to them. And, according to the Wainstein report, football staff advised Crowder what grades the players needed, but she ignored these recommendations-everyone got A's and B's, not just athletes.

I guess that's one way to ignore what was actually said. Regardless if she ignored anyone, the advisors told her what grades kids needed. You also missed the part that said this set up was for athletes. Other students taking these classes is immaterial as to the intent of these classes and what these advisors to the athletes were trying to accomplish. Looks like Willingham, Ganim and McCants were right. You were wrong. You said nothing would come out because this had already been investigated 4 times with nothing found.

 

[itsbotime]

I guess that's one way to ignore what was actually said. Regardless if she ignored anyone, the advisors told her what grades kids needed. You also missed the part that said this set up was for athletes. Other students taking these classes is immaterial as to the intent of these classes and what these advisors to the athletes were trying to accomplish. Looks like Willingham, Ganim and McCants were right. You were wrong. You said nothing would come out because this had already been investigated 4 times with nothing found.

If you actually watched the press conference yesterday, you would have seen that Wainstein himself said that there was absolutely nothing to support any of the allegations that McCants made. So, are you now arguing that Wainstein's report is false? Can't have it both ways. Either Wainstein was right, or McCants/Willingham were.

 

[rrlbees]

If you actually watched the press conference yesterday, you would have seen that Wainstein himself said that there was absolutely nothing to support any of the allegations that McCants made. So, are you now arguing that Wainstein's report is false? Can't have it both ways. Either Wainstein was right, or McCants/Willingham were.

Let's put it this way. They were all a hell of a lot more right than you. Even if they were only 90% right, you were 0%. And you still ignore most of what my posts have pointed out about the advisors. Spin away.

 

[itsbotime]

Let's put it this way. They were all a hell of a lot more right than you. Even if they were only 90% right, you were 0%. And you still ignore most of what my posts have pointed out about the advisors. Spin away.

According to Wainstein, they were zero percent right. So, once again, which one is it? Is Wainstein mistaken, or is McCants mistaken?

 

[rrlbees]

According to Wainstein, they were zero percent right. So, once again, which one is it? Is Wainstein mistaken, or is McCants mistaken?

lol. You're a funny guy. Trying to sidestep the Athletics people steering athletes to keep them eligible? Telling Crowder what they needed?

As to McCants, he was right about bogus classes. He was right about not having to attend some classes. He was right about paper classes. He was right about the whole thing bring a sham. You know, things that Williams and the AD back in June claimed were completely false.

Wanna show me where Weinstein said that McCants, Willingham and Ganim were ZERO percent correct? All anyone had to say is that they were bogus classes and they be right.

So tell me about these advisors? Really want to hear your spin.

 

[itsbotime]

lol. You're a funny guy. Trying to sidestep the Athletics people steering athletes to keep them eligible? Telling Crowder what they needed?

As to McCants, he was right about bogus classes. He was right about not having to attend some classes. He was right about paper classes. He was right about the whole thing bring a sham. You know, things that Williams and the AD back in June claimed were completely false.

Wanna show me where Weinstein said that McCants, Willingham and Ganim were ZERO percent correct? All anyone had to say is that they were bogus classes and they be right.

So tell me about these advisors? Really want to hear your spin.

Wainstein said that there was no evidence to support any of McCants' assertions. That's lawyer-speak for saying that McCants was FOS. This investigation was incredibly thorough...if McCants was telling the truth, Wainstein would have found it.

Willingham has been caught in so many lies thus far that nothing she says is credible. Plagiarized her masters thesis and will never work in academia again. Made up bogus numbers regarding literacy rates that she tried to peddle to the media until she was discovered, and then went into hiding. Famously argued on a powerpoint that 9+4=10.

Athletics people steering athletes to easy A courses is nothing new. Duke pushes its basketball players into no-show sociology courses. Stanford got flack a few years ago for distributing a list of easy-A courses to only athletes.

 

[rrlbees]

Wainstein said that there was no evidence to support any of McCants' assertions. That's lawyer-speak for saying that McCants was FOS. This investigation was incredibly thorough...if McCants was telling the truth, Wainstein would have found it. Willingham has been caught in so many lies thus far that nothing she says is credible. Plagiarized her masters thesis and will never work in academia again. Made up bogus numbers regarding literacy rates that she tried to peddle to the media until she was discovered, and then went into hiding. Famously argued on a powerpoint that 9+4=10. Athletics people steering athletes to easy A courses is nothing new. Duke pushes its basketball players into no-show sociology courses. Stanford got flack a few years ago for distributing a list of easy-A courses to only athletes.

So Weinstein said the classes weren't bogus? He said that you did have to attend classes? He said that none of the classes were a paper class? He said that the academic advisors that worked with the athletes didn't steer players to these classes? Interesting, as I didn't see that in the report nor in any interview.

 

[itsbotime]

So Weinstein said the classes weren't bogus? He said that you did have to attend classes? He said that none of the classes were a paper class? He said that the academic advisors that worked with the athletes didn't steer players to these classes? Interesting, as I didn't see that in the report nor in any interview.

You evidently didn't watch the interview if you are still quoting McCants on here. BTW, there is nothing wrong with independent studies courses. Every school worth a damn offers them, and athletes do tend to gravitate towards them because those are the courses that best accommodate their ridiculous schedules. I always laugh when people get self-righteous and say, "Oh my goodness, those players got grades when they didn't even go to class!!!!11!one". Um, yeah, that's what an independent study class is. Duke basketball has funneled their players into no-show sociology courses for years now. NC State's former quarterback Mike Glennon took only no-show classes for two fall semesters and never spent a day in a classroom. Where's the outrage?

 

[rrlbees]

You evidently didn't watch the interview if you are still quoting McCants on here. BTW, there is nothing wrong with independent studies courses. Every school worth a damn offers them, and athletes do tend to gravitate towards them because those are the courses that best accommodate their ridiculous schedules. I always laugh when people get self-righteous and say, "Oh my goodness, those players got grades when they didn't even go to class!!!!11!one". Um, yeah, that's what an independent study class is. Duke basketball has funneled their players into no-show sociology courses for years now. NC State's former quarterback Mike Glennon took only no-show classes for two fall semesters and never spent a day in a classroom. Where's the outrage?

Scrambling huh?

I'll repost what I did earlier for your pleasure.

"Wainstein, however, also found that academic advisers who worked closely with the athletic department regularly steered athletes to these classes for the specific purpose of raising their grades, going so far on some occasions as to advise Crowder what grades were needed to maintain eligibility."

"Wainsteins report makes clear that the motivation was largely rooted in a desire to help athletes."