USA Today posts NCAA Tournament coaches' salaries: Jim Boeheim earns | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

USA Today posts NCAA Tournament coaches' salaries: Jim Boeheim earns

HarrisonJBounel said:
Pay comes in many forms. If I am an NBA prospect, Louisville will "pay" me more than LeMoyne because I'll have a much better chance to make the NBA. Not while I am there, but in future potential earnings.

As for the Tshirts, make the NBA, and see how much you can make in endorsements. Michael Jordan's salary from the Bulls paled in comparison to what he made from Nike. Until then, the money made on the Tshirts is used for the benefit of UL.
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Another non-answer. And you're still not addressing your original point.

No matter. Neither of us is going to solve anything. All of that will begin after Ed O'Bannon wins his lawsuit.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
That is the investment decision made by the player - the athlete "invests" his time at a university, and has two possible payoffs - 1) a pro career, or 2) a degree and the recognition/experience.

Who is supposed to profit off these shirts? The player? No. That is the deal going in. There is no real difference in the revenue from the shirts or from the TV contracts or the ticket sales. You can't pay the athletes based on revenues.
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No, that's not the deal going in. No one expects their leg to snap in half, only to have a shoe company profit from it. Why should anyone profit from the shirts at all? Like the article suggested, give them away. Or give the proceeds to charity. Or put them in a fund in case Ware doesn't play again and gets stuck with future medical bills.

The "investment decision" is forced on the player. They have to wait at least one year before they can have an opportunity to play in the NBA, including the D League.
 
bnoro said:
Yes. The player should be profitting off his likeness. Johnny Manziel's Heisman season was valued at over 100m for Texas Tech. That player deserves at least some of that. If you are selling a jersey with a specific number on it, then you are profitting off that player's likeness.

The O'bannon case gained a huge bargaining chip today as Louisville claimed that they are making no money from those shirts and admitted they were Kevin Ware related. The NCAA is trying to prove that numbers mean nothing.
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Manziel and Ware and every athlete going in know they aren't going to get paid by the university for playing there. That's the contract, entered into freely by both parties. So Texas Tech is going to benefit from Manziel's Heisman - how much will Manziel benefit from playing at Texas Tech and winning the Heisman (girlfriend aside - down Brett!)? Let's not forget that Texas Tech is going to take that $100mm (assuming that's the number) and improve the university - better facilities, better faculty, etc.

It's like a record deal for a new recording artist. The artist doesn't get much, at first, compared to the record company. The real money comes with later releases. Or pro baseball players. Buster Posey made $615k last year and was MVP. He just signed a $167 mm extension. The real money comes later.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
Manziel and Ware and every athlete going in know they aren't going to get paid by the university for playing there. That's the contract, entered into freely by both parties. So Texas Tech is going to benefit from Manziel's Heisman - how much will Manziel benefit from playing at Texas Tech and winning the Heisman (girlfriend aside - down Brett!)? Let's not forget that Texas Tech is going to take that $100mm (assuming that's the number) and improve the university - better facilities, better faculty, etc.

It's like a record deal for a new recording artist. The artist doesn't get much, at first, compared to the record company. The real money comes with later releases. Or pro baseball players. Buster Posey made $615k last year and was MVP. He just signed a $167 mm extension. The real money comes later.
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It's not entered freely by both parties. Football players have to wait even longer to go pro than basketball players.

(BTW, Manziel plays for A&M and Musberger was fawning over A.J. McCarron's girlfriend.)

New recording artists? That's a terrible example. Those people have been notoriously screwed by record labels. Some of them are fortunate enough to make money later. Some go broke trying.

Buster Posey went to Florida St., but some of his teammates went to the minors right out of high school. That's a paying gig.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
What I can see is universities giving a very modest stipend to cover basic expenses - maybe $1000/month. This would hopefully mitigate the temptation to take under the table money from agents or boosters, and help relieve the financial pressure on the athletes, many who come from impoverished backgrounds. It would be like work-study. Other students make a wage washing dishes, working in the library, etc. Pay the athletes an hourly wage for practice and game time.
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Aren't the players already receiving a stipend to pay for meals? Speaking of work-study, scholarship athletes aren't allowed to take those campus jobs if they want to make some extra money during the offseason. That's an NCAA violation. It's also an NCAA violation if Rick Majerus has a team meeting at his hotel residence and orders pizza. And it's an NCAA violation if your teammate's dad is Bill Walton and he gives you a ticket to the NBA Finals, just like he gave tickets to Luke's other friends who don't play basketball.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
Manziel and Ware and every athlete going in know they aren't going to get paid by the university for playing there. That's the contract, entered into freely by both parties. So Texas Tech is going to benefit from Manziel's Heisman - how much will Manziel benefit from playing at Texas Tech and winning the Heisman (girlfriend aside - down Brett!)? Let's not forget that Texas Tech is going to take that $100mm (assuming that's the number) and improve the university - better facilities, better faculty, etc.

It's like a record deal for a new recording artist. The artist doesn't get much, at first, compared to the record company. The real money comes with later releases. Or pro baseball players. Buster Posey made $615k last year and was MVP. He just signed a $167 mm extension. The real money comes later.
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Is it? What option does a high school football player have if he doesn't want to play college ball? Is there another place he can develop his skills and still make the NFL? College football is a monopoly that players are forced into entering if they want to become pros. You think when Manziel goes pro next year he'll have his degree from A&M? No.

So what was his payment from going to A&M? Housing, women, and the ability to play football for no compensation. What happens if he gets arrested and thrown off the team? How will he benefit from Texas A&M now? The school says good riddance and that's it.

How did that Heisman that Troy Smith won help him in future NFL earnings?
 
KingOtis said:
It's not entered freely by both parties. Football players have to wait even longer to go pro than basketball players.

(BTW, Manziel plays for A&M and Musberger was fawning over A.J. McCarron's girlfriend.)

New recording artists? That's a terrible example. Those people have been notoriously screwed by record labels. Some of them are fortunate enough to make money later. Some go broke trying.

Buster Posey went to Florida St., but some of his teammates went to the minors right out of high school. That's a paying gig.
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In order:

The "deal" I'm referring to is the play-for-scholarship deal. No one put a gun to Ware's head and said he must play for UL. He freely entered into the contract with UL. Most players don't make the pros, but they get a free education, notoriety, and contacts.

Thank you for correcting me about Tech vs A&M - I was going on the other poster's info, and on my confusing the girlfriends of AJ and Manziel. Your reward:



johnny-manziel-girlfriend-24.jpg
My kind of gal.

Recording artists are an excellent example of what I'm talking abut. They get voluntarily exploited but sustained by the recording companies in the hopes of a huge payday down the line. Meanwhile, they are doing what they love. Incidentally, I had the 45 of "Time Has Come Today". Loved the extended version. More cowbell! Sorry for Lester's plight, but I guess he couldn't figure out how to make megabux like most other stars did.

And Buster Posey is also an excellent example, because it's voluntary exploitation by both FSU and by the San Francisco Giants (in his early career when he is "under control"), in the hopes of a huge payday down the line, which he got. Nobody put a gun to his head to play at FSU on full scholarship. Suppose he had a career-ending injury there. FSU would still have to honor the contract, and Buster would be selling insurance or something right now, using his education and his contacts to further his career.
 
Hey, at least you admit they're being exploited. The difference between you and me is that you think it's OK.
 
bnoro said:
Is it? What option does a high school football player have if he doesn't want to play college ball? Is there another place he can develop his skills and still make the NFL? College football is a monopoly that players are forced into entering if they want to become pros. You think when Manziel goes pro next year he'll have his degree from A&M? No.

So what was his payment from going to A&M? Housing, women, and the ability to play football for no compensation. What happens if he gets arrested and thrown off the team? How will he benefit from Texas A&M now? The school says good riddance and that's it.

How did that Heisman that Troy Smith won help him in future NFL earnings?
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In order:

Nobody is forcing high-school football players to play college ball. I don't have a lot of sympathy for a kid who can't get even a simple degree with all the help they get. If they can't succeed at that, there isn't much else they are going to succeed at. Relative equality of opportunity is a good thing, but equality of outcome is not. Other major sports now have successful minor leagues as an alternative to college - I don't know why football does not. Arena football? Some guys make the pros from there (Kurt Warner, eg).

If Manziel doesn't get a degree, that is his business. He was given every opportunity to get one. The university owes him the opportunity, but it does not owe him the outcome. You say he gets "no compensation", but that is flat wrong - he got the opportunity to get an education. That is huge compensation. If he gets arrested and thrown off the team, that is his fault - he broke the terms of the contract. In that instance, the school absolutely should say good riddance. What about the second-string tackle who hardly played a down? He got a free ride, just like Manziel. What about the women's rower on full scholarship? What about the cross-country runner on full scholarship? How much revenue did they generate?

And if Troy Smith couldn't parlay that Heisman into megabux, whose fault is that? Nobody owes him anything for that. Perhaps he should see the handwriting on the wall in regards to his pro playing days, and become a coach.
 
BTW, I'm seeing a lot of posts here that are long on bitching (which I've successfully countered), and short on alternatives.

If you don't like the current system, what is the alternative?
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
In order:

Nobody is forcing high-school football players to play college ball. I don't have a lot of sympathy for a kid who can't get even a simple degree with all the help they get. If they can't succeed at that, there isn't much else they are going to succeed at. Relative equality of opportunity is a good thing, but equality of outcome is not. Other major sports now have successful minor leagues as an alternative to college - I don't know why football does not. Arena football? Some guys make the pros from there (Kurt Warner, eg).
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Kurt Warner - who is the exception and not the rule - played college ball at Northern Iowa. Football doesn't have a minor league because it already has college football. The NBA doesn't have a true minor league either. You can't go straight to the D League out of high school. That's what college basketball is for. Let's stop pretending that this is about giving these kids an education.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
BTW, I'm seeing a lot of posts here that are long on bitching (which I've successfully countered), and short on alternatives.

If you don't like the current system, what is the alternative?
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I'm sorry, let me stop laughing first. Self-proclaimed "successfully countered," that's a good one.

OK, where were we? Oh yeah, you wanted an alternative. Let me think...

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Pay them.
 
KingOtis said:
I'm sorry, let me stop laughing first. Self-proclaimed "successfully countered," that's a good one.

OK, where were we? Oh yeah, you wanted an alternative. Let me think...

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Wait for it...

Pay them.
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Pay who, exactly? Do you include the rower, the cross-country runner, the reserve field hockey player? How much? Based on what? For what - games, practice, minutes played, weights lifted, miles rowed? And any of a thousand other questions.

And all this time you haven't put forth any substantive points. I've said pay them, and I even told you exactly how. You haven't done anything but unsuccessfully attempt to counter my points.
 
KingOtis said:
Kurt Warner - who is the exception and not the rule - played college ball at Northern Iowa. Football doesn't have a minor league because it already has college football. The NBA doesn't have a true minor league either. You can't go straight to the D League out of high school. That's what college basketball is for. Let's stop pretending that this is about giving these kids an education.
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Players out of high school can easily go play for a team in Europe who will pay them millions of dollars. Yet they don't. Why? Because they all prefer to get superior, grade-A, top-of-the-line basketball training, education, food, national exposure FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE.

It's a no-brainer.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
Oh, but it does indeed matter. That is why 5-star recruits don't end up playing for LeMoyne, or Oswego State.
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Adonal Foyle went to Colgate. he made 63 million dollars according to bball ref.

Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, Dwight Howard went to nothing...amazingly people still know who they are.

It "matters" in that it's good marketing in some ways for your average player. For your 5 star recruit, it's all BS. If you are good, the NBA knows by your Jr year of high school.
 
HarrisonJBounel said:
Pay who, exactly? Do you include the rower, the cross-country runner, the reserve field hockey player? How much? Based on what? For what - games, practice, minutes played, weights lifted, miles rowed? And any of a thousand other questions.

And all this time you haven't put forth any substantive points. I've said pay them, and I even told you exactly how. You haven't done anything but unsuccessfully attempt to counter my points.
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Your arrogance is entertaining.

For what purpose do I need to counter your points in a manner which you deem satisfactory? This entire debate is one big, long tangent off of your original point. And it's not like either of us is going to change the other's mind.
 
syrabillslican said:
Players out of high school can easily go play for a team in Europe who will pay them millions of dollars. Yet they don't. Why? Because they all prefer to get superior, grade-A, top-of-the-line basketball training, education, food, national exposure FOR ABSOLUTELY FREE.
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Read up on Brandon Jennings' experience in Europe. That's why they don't go.

And you've got it twisted. The schools get the players for free. The players are sacrificing a year or more of pay.
 
KingOtis said:
Read up on Brandon Jennings' experience in Europe. That's why they don't go.

And you've got it twisted. The schools get the players for free. The players are sacrificing a year or more of pay.
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Hey man. Now you're saying it's not all about the money, after you spent two pages of forums arguing that everything else is irrelevant.

The D-1 college basketball player is in no way the most exploited person in America. I think you should shed your tears elsewhere.
 
syrabillslican said:
Hey man. Now you're saying it's not all about the money, after you spent two pages of forums arguing that everything else is irrelevant.

The D-1 college basketball player is in no way the most exploited person in America. I think you should shed your tears elsewhere.
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Dude, what are you even trying to say?
 
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