USC and UCLA to the Big Ten | Page 68 | Syracusefan.com

USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

Resignation in the sense that we can’t be proactive or pull any levers. Lally complex won’t be completed or be in a position to enhance the brand for several years. If football starts going to bowl games, again, that doesn’t award us a spot in this musical chairs. We need some big hitters politically or financially to shake things up. We have influence with ESPN, Weitsman? Biden?

Maybe as another poster speculated he’s trying to scare donors into action. Idk.
I gained absolutely zero from that article. My guess is the conversation was about a minute with the reporter and Carlson was able to stretch that out into 10 minutes of reporting by rehashing everything that has been said over the last week everywhere else. Unfortunately we are in a very weak position. All we can do is sit, wait and pray to the football gods.
 
I don’t care how it’s spun. With our big sports combining for their worst state of performance in decades, it would be very very very disappointing to have the athletic department/school just accept that the dominoes may fall as they will.
Have to agree with you.
 
Iowa AD just said B1G won't expand more, just like I expect. They will only add schools that most members in B1G feel they have no chance to catch up. For B1G, it is USC and UCLA only. Teams like Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Maryland and other less powerful schools won't admit schools like Washington and Oregon. They think over time, with more payout in B1G, Iowa can catch up and exceed Oregon or Stanford which will receive much less pay if they stuck at PAC12. If small B1G schools let these PAC12 schools in and everybody gets the same pay, Iowa will never catch up with Oregon or Stanford. That is why I always think SEC can only admit Texas and Oklahoma and B1G only admits USC and UCLA. Even admitting Clemson won't get enough votes in SEC because small SEC schools think they can beat Clemson (or Florida St) in 20 years.

What Iowa said doesn't cover Notre Dame because Notre Dame belongs to the category that they will never beat. And Notre Dame can bring one friend with them to B1G. Lucky for us, Notre Dame is likely to choose Pitt or Syracuse.
No, we will want a school that opens up new areas for us. Florida, Miami or FSU maybe.
 

Let's start with Notre Dame. Fact 1: ND has a contract with the ACC that says it must join the ACC in football if it joins a league. Fact 2: Virtually no one expects ND to join the ACC. How can that be?

The expectation is ND will be patient here. Jack Swarbrick is in no rush to upend a core tenet of ND's tradition because a couple pieces moved on the chess board. Moreover, the biggest looming ? for the Irish remains unanswered: The playoff. (more on that in a bit)

ND's contract with the ACC looks essentially like everyone else in the league: An exit fee (3x annual revenue) and a GoR - but only for non-football sports. ND's ACC revenue for 2019-20 (pre-COVID) was $10.8M, while full ACC schools were $32.3M.

CFBHeather wrote more on how ND could exit the ACC. It's tough to get a firm number on what the total cost might be -- lots of details not known -- but my best estimate based on publicly available data would be between $55M-$112M to depart in 2024.

Even at the high end of that tally, ND would figure to make that money back with a B1G TV deal in a few years. But ND is already poised to make some serious TV $. Its deal with NBC expires in 2025 & there figures to be a lot of bidders. The Irish have options. Must be nice.

2 other factors impact ND's decisions though: A home for non-football sports & access to the playoff. ACC answers issue 1 if it stays afloat. We don't know what the playoff will look like in 4 years. 8 teams? 12? SEC & B1G form their own playoff? That matters more.

So ND isn't in a hurry to decide its future, but the Irish are the lynchpin for further expansion by the B1G. That means super conferences are in a bit of a holding pattern. The B12 and P12 have an incentive to move fast -- no one else does, bc they're all waiting on ND.

Now let's talk about the ACC's grant of rights. It runs through 2036 -- 14 years from now -- and it means the ACC owns the broadcast rights for all members until then. The rumor mill has largely ignored how big an obstacle this really is -- and it's enormous.

Another aside: adding new teams or opening up the TV contract would *NOT* void the existing GoR. They are separate documents. If new teams joined the ACC, they'd have to sign the same GoR as everyone else. Same for departing teams - unless > 50% leave.

What would it take for a team to leave? An exit fee (3x annual revenue) would be in the neighborhood of $120-150M. Then, assuming the ACC allowed a team to buy out its media rights, you'd be looking at another $300M or so, minimum, from 2024-36.

But here's the thing: The ACC has no incentive to settle for a buyout. Instead, it could simply say, "We own your broadcast rights. Your games will air on our network or not at all." And what value is there for any other league to add an ACC team that can't earn TV money?

The general feeling is, eventually someone will challenge the GoR in court, but that's problematic, too. For 1, the super conference writing was on the wall a year ago. Several teams have had lawyers looking over the GoR. None have challenged it yet. What does that tell you?

Or look at Texas and Oklahoma. They're riding out their own GoR because the B12 wasn't going to give them an easy out and they didn't think there was value in taking it to the courts and possibly losing. But P12, B1G & B12 deals end soon. ACC has 14 years left.

Another thing: There's little incentive for a school to challenge the GoR without some certainty they have a landing spot. But what league is going to make an offer to a school when it doesn't know if that school will have media rights for the next 14 years? It's a Catch 22.

But wait... what if 8+ teams leave & the GoR is dissolved? Problem: 8 teams don't have a home elsewhere. B1G & SEC are looking at $100M/year payouts. Remember, it's not about increasing the size of the pie -- it's about bigger slices. There aren't 8 schools that can do that.

Long story short, there's not an obvious path for anyone to depart the ACC in the near term without a massive & expensive legal battle. In the longer term, the equation changes. We'll have playoff certainty, knowledge on NCAA/oversight. Revenue gaps up, GoR length down.

So, to borrow a line from "Space Balls," when will "then" be "now"? The most logical answer is the NEXT round of TV deals - possibly in the early 2030s. That's a long way off, and that creates another Catch 22, bc it's gonna be hard for top teams to survive that long.

Another aside: This isn't all about money. Perception matters, too. What happens if recruits view the ACC as the JV of CFB amid the super conferences in the B1G & SEC? Even if you can spend and build, can you overcome a perception gap? It's a big issue. But back to the dollars...

MattBrownEP has addressed this: It's not (currently) how much $ you have, but rather how you spend it. https://extrapointsmb.com/college-football-realignment-budgets-data/… Clemson outspends Ohio St on football because it uses 41% of its budget for football, while OSU uses just 27%.

BUT... keep those same % & add $50M/year to OSU's TV deal & now the Buckeyes are spending roughly $13M/year MORE on football than Clemson but still just 27% of its total budget. And remember when OSU AD Gene Smith said it'd cost $13M in NIL to build his team?

As 1 coach told me after last year's shake-up, you can only build so many buildings. The real need for this $ is panic over the perceived inevitability of paying players & this gets us to another possible inflection point. What happens if super conferences go pro?

A lot of readers have asked about contraction. I've yet to talk to any admin who thinks that's going to happen in any league any time soon. But if, say, the ACC decided it would collectively bargain with players as employees -- would all 14 schools be on board with that?

It's impossible to say right now, but there's a scenario where a few smaller, education-centered schools opt to leave for a league that wants to maintain amateurism (like the Ivy League), while others join a league generating more revenue. Now you have 8+ ready to move on.

But this is all a ways off -- years, at least. That's not to say some more shakeups couldn't happen before then -- again P12/B12 have an incentive to move quickly & ND is a wild card -- but treat other rumors with a grain of salt -- particularly if reported by a swimming account.

Again, this is all hypothetical, and I don't encourage going too far down that road because there are simply too many unknown variables. But the larger point is that the ACC's near term is likely stable, and its long term will be dictated by a lot of outside forces. -30-
That may be the most succinct summary of where we are now. I think what he leaves out is the congressional possibilities as well as the pro vs amateur decision making. Those change everything.

The ACC GOR is a prison sentence for some schools and the only oasis for others.
 

Let's start with Notre Dame. Fact 1: ND has a contract with the ACC that says it must join the ACC in football if it joins a league. Fact 2: Virtually no one expects ND to join the ACC. How can that be?

The expectation is ND will be patient here. Jack Swarbrick is in no rush to upend a core tenet of ND's tradition because a couple pieces moved on the chess board. Moreover, the biggest looming ? for the Irish remains unanswered: The playoff. (more on that in a bit)

ND's contract with the ACC looks essentially like everyone else in the league: An exit fee (3x annual revenue) and a GoR - but only for non-football sports. ND's ACC revenue for 2019-20 (pre-COVID) was $10.8M, while full ACC schools were $32.3M.

CFBHeather wrote more on how ND could exit the ACC. It's tough to get a firm number on what the total cost might be -- lots of details not known -- but my best estimate based on publicly available data would be between $55M-$112M to depart in 2024.

Even at the high end of that tally, ND would figure to make that money back with a B1G TV deal in a few years. But ND is already poised to make some serious TV $. Its deal with NBC expires in 2025 & there figures to be a lot of bidders. The Irish have options. Must be nice.

2 other factors impact ND's decisions though: A home for non-football sports & access to the playoff. ACC answers issue 1 if it stays afloat. We don't know what the playoff will look like in 4 years. 8 teams? 12? SEC & B1G form their own playoff? That matters more.

So ND isn't in a hurry to decide its future, but the Irish are the lynchpin for further expansion by the B1G. That means super conferences are in a bit of a holding pattern. The B12 and P12 have an incentive to move fast -- no one else does, bc they're all waiting on ND.

Now let's talk about the ACC's grant of rights. It runs through 2036 -- 14 years from now -- and it means the ACC owns the broadcast rights for all members until then. The rumor mill has largely ignored how big an obstacle this really is -- and it's enormous.

Another aside: adding new teams or opening up the TV contract would *NOT* void the existing GoR. They are separate documents. If new teams joined the ACC, they'd have to sign the same GoR as everyone else. Same for departing teams - unless > 50% leave.

What would it take for a team to leave? An exit fee (3x annual revenue) would be in the neighborhood of $120-150M. Then, assuming the ACC allowed a team to buy out its media rights, you'd be looking at another $300M or so, minimum, from 2024-36.

But here's the thing: The ACC has no incentive to settle for a buyout. Instead, it could simply say, "We own your broadcast rights. Your games will air on our network or not at all." And what value is there for any other league to add an ACC team that can't earn TV money?

The general feeling is, eventually someone will challenge the GoR in court, but that's problematic, too. For 1, the super conference writing was on the wall a year ago. Several teams have had lawyers looking over the GoR. None have challenged it yet. What does that tell you?

Or look at Texas and Oklahoma. They're riding out their own GoR because the B12 wasn't going to give them an easy out and they didn't think there was value in taking it to the courts and possibly losing. But P12, B1G & B12 deals end soon. ACC has 14 years left.

Another thing: There's little incentive for a school to challenge the GoR without some certainty they have a landing spot. But what league is going to make an offer to a school when it doesn't know if that school will have media rights for the next 14 years? It's a Catch 22.

But wait... what if 8+ teams leave & the GoR is dissolved? Problem: 8 teams don't have a home elsewhere. B1G & SEC are looking at $100M/year payouts. Remember, it's not about increasing the size of the pie -- it's about bigger slices. There aren't 8 schools that can do that.

Long story short, there's not an obvious path for anyone to depart the ACC in the near term without a massive & expensive legal battle. In the longer term, the equation changes. We'll have playoff certainty, knowledge on NCAA/oversight. Revenue gaps up, GoR length down.

So, to borrow a line from "Space Balls," when will "then" be "now"? The most logical answer is the NEXT round of TV deals - possibly in the early 2030s. That's a long way off, and that creates another Catch 22, bc it's gonna be hard for top teams to survive that long.

Another aside: This isn't all about money. Perception matters, too. What happens if recruits view the ACC as the JV of CFB amid the super conferences in the B1G & SEC? Even if you can spend and build, can you overcome a perception gap? It's a big issue. But back to the dollars...

MattBrownEP has addressed this: It's not (currently) how much $ you have, but rather how you spend it. https://extrapointsmb.com/college-football-realignment-budgets-data/… Clemson outspends Ohio St on football because it uses 41% of its budget for football, while OSU uses just 27%.

BUT... keep those same % & add $50M/year to OSU's TV deal & now the Buckeyes are spending roughly $13M/year MORE on football than Clemson but still just 27% of its total budget. And remember when OSU AD Gene Smith said it'd cost $13M in NIL to build his team?

As 1 coach told me after last year's shake-up, you can only build so many buildings. The real need for this $ is panic over the perceived inevitability of paying players & this gets us to another possible inflection point. What happens if super conferences go pro?

A lot of readers have asked about contraction. I've yet to talk to any admin who thinks that's going to happen in any league any time soon. But if, say, the ACC decided it would collectively bargain with players as employees -- would all 14 schools be on board with that?

It's impossible to say right now, but there's a scenario where a few smaller, education-centered schools opt to leave for a league that wants to maintain amateurism (like the Ivy League), while others join a league generating more revenue. Now you have 8+ ready to move on.

But this is all a ways off -- years, at least. That's not to say some more shakeups couldn't happen before then -- again P12/B12 have an incentive to move quickly & ND is a wild card -- but treat other rumors with a grain of salt -- particularly if reported by a swimming account.

Again, this is all hypothetical, and I don't encourage going too far down that road because there are simply too many unknown variables. But the larger point is that the ACC's near term is likely stable, and its long term will be dictated by a lot of outside forces. -30-
what if a school left the ACC to go to the B10 and the B10 deal was for no media rights money, but they decided to pay schools out of the B10 pot a share of money for something else.
 
only thing I saw in that whole thing that gives me even a sliver of hope is that if the ACC adds a school it does not dissolve the GOR. Need to try to poach some schools and add some value somewhere. I don’t know who even moves the needle or who will come but somebody who makes a lot more $$$ then I do needs to figure it out. You can not have a $70 million dollar gap between the haves and have nots. Nobody other then Notre dame makes up the whole shot but try to get from mid $30 million a year to maybe high $50 million if even possible. Again it may not be.
 
I hope the wildcard becomes political intervention. Somewhere along the line if b10/sec keep poaching it’s going to screw off a school that has important congressional representation. This may trigger some kind of movement toward anti-trust regulation in college sports. At least that’s my hope.

I imagine all this upheaval destroying traditions is creating more enemies than supporters and this karma hopefully restores order to the universe in my lifetime.
 
only thing I saw in that whole thing that gives me even a sliver of hope is that if the ACC adds a school it does not dissolve the GOR. Need to try to poach some schools and add some value somewhere. I don’t know who even moves the needle or who will come but somebody who makes a lot more $$$ then I do needs to figure it out. You can not have a $70 million dollar gap between the haves and have nots. Nobody other then Notre dame makes up the whole shot but try to get from mid $30 million a year to maybe high $50 million if even possible. Again it may not be.

Problem is the ACC hasn't been very pro-active since SU and PItt were added. Everyone talks a good game but the gap keeps growing between the ACC and the B10/SEC and the only response seems to be the GOR. This feels a lot like the Big East circa Mid 2000's. Everyone says the right things but the outcome seems inevitable.
 
only thing I saw in that whole thing that gives me even a sliver of hope is that if the ACC adds a school it does not dissolve the GOR. Need to try to poach some schools and add some value somewhere. I don’t know who even moves the needle or who will come but somebody who makes a lot more $$$ then I do needs to figure it out. You can not have a $70 million dollar gap between the haves and have nots. Nobody other then Notre dame makes up the whole shot but try to get from mid $30 million a year to maybe high $50 million if even possible. Again it may not be.
Phil Knight, I mean Oregon
 
Problem is the ACC hasn't been very pro-active since SU and PItt were added. Everyone talks a good game but the gap keeps growing between the ACC and the B10/SEC and the only response seems to be the GOR. This feels a lot like the Big East circa Mid 2000's. Everyone says the right things but the outcome seems inevitable.
I don’t disagree, if the conference just relies on the GOR only then they are just delaying the inevitable. But hopefully they can find a way to move the needle somewhat.
 
I read it as more of a message / warning shot to Kent, trustees, donors, etc...i.e. if you don't support this athletic dept, we could be left behind
i read it as the horse is out of the barn---it may be to late to catch it!!!!!
 
the issue will be if the big schools decide to take their ball and run with it and get out of the ncaa and do their own thing. what if they decide to make it 100 scholies a team. that removes a ton of kids from all the other schools playing ball now and those schools will be fcs pretty fast..
I think they will end up with less players as the top recruits eat up teams NIL in bidding wars. Also players want to play and when your paying the top talent big bucks, they will get all the PT. In addition, having all this NIL money up for grabs is going to motivate recruits to work harder, deepening the pool of strong talent.
 
Colgate is right down the road. They would love another fan...just saying.
i live in Pennsylvania. colgate is a beautiful school, i have nieces that played and another now playing for the lacrosse team,. so in many respects i am a fan already, but thankyou for your concern
 
Is this such a bad conference if UNC UVA CLEMSON FSU exit for the SEC?? Personally, I like it

ACC
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Miami

Virginia Tech
NC State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
UCF

Cincinnati
Louisville
Kansas
TCU
Baylor
 
Is this such a bad conference if UNC UVA CLEMSON FSU exit for the SEC?? Personally, I like it

ACC
Boston College
Syracuse
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Miami

Virginia Tech
NC State
Wake Forest
Georgia Tech
UCF

Cincinnati
Louisville
Kansas
TCU
Baylor
UCF brings nothing. Baylor and TCU are redundant. Pick one. Otherwise not bad.
 
UCF brings nothing. Baylor and TCU are redundant. Pick one. Otherwise not bad.
If we lose FSU then UCF brings great potential. It’s a large school in Orlando that has a rabid fan base and recent football success.

TCU and Baylor fit the mold of half the ACC with midsize private/religious affiliation. Both also have great success in football and allow the ACC to enter the TX recruiting markets.
 
only thing I saw in that whole thing that gives me even a sliver of hope is that if the ACC adds a school it does not dissolve the GOR. Need to try to poach some schools and add some value somewhere. I don’t know who even moves the needle or who will come but somebody who makes a lot more $$$ then I do needs to figure it out. You can not have a $70 million dollar gap between the haves and have nots. Nobody other then Notre dame makes up the whole shot but try to get from mid $30 million a year to maybe high $50 million if even possible. Again it may not be.
Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Kansas and a couple of the Texas schools. Create a 10-team ACC West division. Oregon-Clemson, Washington-Florida State, Stanford-Miami would be great matchups. And it would give the ACC Network weekly content for the later time slots.
 
Last edited:
Oregon, Washington, Stanford, Arizona State, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Kansas and a couple of the Texas schools. Create a 10-team ACC West division. Oregon-Clemson, Washington-Florida State, Stanford-Miami would be great matchups. And it would give the ACC Network weekly content for the later time slots.
Call it the ACC: American Coast Conference. Rebranding opportunities galore! Bill Walton to ACC Network!
 

Forum statistics

Threads
170,310
Messages
4,884,081
Members
5,991
Latest member
Fowler

Online statistics

Members online
21
Guests online
1,052
Total visitors
1,073


...
Top Bottom