USC and UCLA to the Big Ten

[CousCuse]

That’s great until he leaves for a better job and they fall back to the bottom. Coaching doesn’t matter at all in these conversations.

I wouldn't put Wake forest in the same category as Vanderbilt. I agree that Wake doesn't have a huge market valuation, but they take their athletic programs seriously there.

 

[CU44SE]

If you get really cynical…you might think that the SEC and BIG collaborate to offer 8 ACC teams at the same time….so they vote to disband the league and nullify the GOR.

SEC gets Miami, FSU and Clemson.
BIG takes UNC. NCState, UVA, Va Tech and hopefully Cuse.

GOR goes away. Politicians aren’t ruffled and it’s all done.

The big elephant though, the Big and Sec would have to agree with who each conference was taking. If either one of those conferences didn‘t like the outcome, they wouldn’t then partake in helping break up the conference Keeping the status que.

 

[Newhouser]

That’s great until he leaves for a better job and they fall back to the bottom. Coaching doesn’t matter at all in these conversations.

I think the same thing about Clemson when Dabo leaves. They won't be last but will fall back as well.

 

[sutomcat]

If you get really cynical…you might think that the SEC and BIG collaborate to offer 8 ACC teams at the same time….so they vote to disband the league and nullify the GOR.

SEC gets Miami, FSU and Clemson.
BIG takes UNC. NCState, UVA, Va Tech and hopefully Cuse.

GOR goes away. Politicians aren’t ruffled and it’s all done.

Stranger things have happened. I would think ESPN would be very much against it since it owns the ACC until 2036 unless it breaks up. If ESPN is not going to be supportive, I would think the SEC would not pursue this.

GT has been rumored to be of interest to the B1G for a long time. Guessing they might be ahead of us on a B1G wish list.

Saw somewhere that while the SEC covets Clemson and FSU, it does not want Miami. Not sure if that is true. VT and NC State seem like better fits in the SEC than the B1G. Virginia politicians worked to get VT into the ACC but I doubt they would care if UVa ended up in the B1G as long as VT ended up in the SEC.

I could see UNC eventually landing in the B1G and similarly, NC State ending up in the SEC.

Also not sure a simple majority is required to dissolve the ACC. I think that was the case with the Big East and while we have seen that league legal agreements tend to be very similar, I don’t know for sure what it takes to break up the ACC as a conference.

Has anyone seen that part of the ACC by laws?

 

[longtimefan]

If you get really cynical…you might think that the SEC and BIG collaborate to offer 8 ACC teams at the same time….so they vote to disband the league and nullify the GOR.

SEC gets Miami, FSU and Clemson.
BIG takes UNC. NCState, UVA, Va Tech and hopefully Cuse.

GOR goes away. Politicians aren’t ruffled and it’s all done.

Except, if this happened all at once, collusion would be obvious, and anti-trust would become an issue. Any ACC school left behind (and some in other conferences?) might have a cause of action.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Except, if this happened all at once, collusion would be obvious, and anti-trust would become an issue. Any ACC school left behind (and some in other conferences?) might have a cause of action.

They can make it work if done in stages which would happen anyway. It would be the "plan" but not the action.

SEC takes FSU and Clemson, who say that they are leaving in 2035.

A year later UNC then has to decide B1G or SEC. IMO they chose B1G and go along with Miami, GA Tech, and UVA. Exit 2035.

A year later SEC then offers NC State and VA Tech. Exit 2035.

A year later B1G takes Duke, BC, SU, and Notre Dame.

Now in 2026 they can vote to dissolve the ACC as only Louisville, Pitt, and Wake are left.

 

[Chris02M]

Stranger things have happened. I would think ESPN would be very much against it since it owns the ACC until 2036 unless it breaks up. If ESPN is not going to be supportive, I would think the SEC would not pursue this.

GT has been rumored to be of interest to the B1G for a long time. Guessing they might be ahead of us on a B1G wish list.

Saw somewhere that while the SEC covets Clemson and FSU, it does not want Miami. Not sure if that is true. VT and NC State seem like better fits in the SEC than the B1G. Virginia politicians worked to get VT into the ACC but I doubt they would care if UVa ended up in the B1G as long as VT ended up in the SEC.

I could see UNC eventually landing in the B1G and similarly, NC State ending up in the SEC.

Also not sure a simple majority is required to dissolve the ACC. I think that was the case with the Big East and while we have seen that league legal agreements tend to be very similar, I don’t know for sure what it takes to break up the ACC as a conference.

Has anyone seen that part of the ACC by laws?

The only part i have seen online is :
Paragraph 6 of the ACC GoR contains the following language:

"Each of the Member Institutions [15 in number] covenants and agrees that (x) it will not enter into any agreement that is inconsistent with the provisions of this Agreement, and (y) it will not take any action, or permit any action to be taken by others subject to its control, including licensees, or fail to take any action, that would affect the validity and enforcement of the Rights granted to the Conference under this Agreement."

 

[Sherman20]

FWIW on the Dan Patrick Show today, DP mentioned that per a source, if The Big 10 can’t land ND, they have their eyes on Va Tech, UVA, UNC, Duke and Cuse.

I’ve also heard people talking about Florida to the Big10. The Big 10 needs to get into the southeast. And that would be a shot across the bow. Florida fits the Big 10 academically and has AAU membership. Florida State, not so much. I could see the Big 10 taking Clemson and Miami too.

 

[Sherman20]

I have to find it but I know for a fact I said I wanted to go to the Big ten instead of the ACC before we joined the ACC for this reason

JB and Gross made a major miscalculation when they decided on the ACC. At the time it seemed to make sense for basketball and to keep us on the East Coast. But in hindsight, it was a huge error.

 

[Sherman20]

If you get really cynical…you might think that the SEC and BIG collaborate to offer 8 ACC teams at the same time….so they vote to disband the league and nullify the GOR.

SEC gets Miami, FSU and Clemson.
BIG takes UNC. NCState, UVA, Va Tech and hopefully Cuse.

GOR goes away. Politicians aren’t ruffled and it’s all done.

politicians would be up in arms. They already are. Also, why would the Big10 want duplicates in Virginia and North Carolina?

 

[TheCusian]

JB and Gross made a major miscalculation when they decided on the ACC. At the time it seemed to make sense for basketball and to keep us on the East Coast. But in hindsight, it was a huge error.

Eh. Given how the latest realignment is going, sure. But in every other category, I think the ACC was the right choice. Football drives the bus anyways - and it was the right choice from a football standpoint

 

[kcsu]

Eh. Given how the latest realignment is going, sure. But in every other category, I think the ACC was the right choice. Football drives the bus anyways - and it was the right choice from a football standpoint

Hindsight is always clear. The ACC at the time was the correct call. The ACC should have been proactive in pushing for a network and expansion earlier. The Big beat them to the punch and the ACC didn't respond well until it was too late. At this point the move is to add accretive value via the pac. How that is accomplished I don't know but i do think that something will be announced soon if it is going to happen as the Pac is in play. Time will tell but the bottom line is we are very lucky that we got into the ACC and that the GOR is strong.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Eh. Given how the latest realignment is going, sure. But in every other category, I think the ACC was the right choice. Football drives the bus anyways - and it was the right choice from a football standpoint

It feels like TGD got the ACC offer and jumped at it, like Kramer and Java World. Did he keep the B1G in the dark or did he try to leverage the ACC offer into a B1G offer? The reaction at the time was as if the B1G was caught off guard. But this is just the impression I got and could be wrong.

We couldn't risk getting left behind, so the ACC offer was great for us. But that being said IMO the B1G's plan was to take SU and RU. When we left for the ACC that left the B1G having to go to plan B. Luckily for them MD fell into their laps thanks to the financial mismanagement of their AD.

It feels like if we were a little more patient, things might have broken right for us. The ACC wasn't expanding without us. But if the B1G had no contact with SU, we had to go.

 

[Hoo's That]

A P12 merger would be dumb. Why take on their dead weight? If the ACC would even think of adding P12 teams it should only be Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Utah, Colorado. The other 3 schools are useless.

That would give the ACC 21 teams. If you take 3 more from the B12, you can get to 6 pods of 4 schools. That will allow regional scheduling in non FB sports.

West- UW, Oregon, Cal, Stanford
Rockies- Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Kansas
South- FSU, Clemson, GA Tech, Wake
Carolina- UNC, NC State, Duke, UVA
North- BC, SU, Pitt, Miami
Appalachian- Louisville, VA Tech, Cincy, WV

You probably could add a Texas pod too of Houston, Texas Tech, Okie State, and Memphis. That would kill off the P12 and B12. ACC would be a clear #3 and if it lost members to either the B1G or SEC they have plenty of schools to fill in any holes.

That being said the largest big conference add thus far has been 2 teams. A big add has yet to happen.

I've lost count. Is this iteration number 20 or 30?

 

[Nahson]

I also like PAC10/ACC straight merge. No one gets left behind. Olympics sports, baseball and softball just play as currently play. Two separate west and east divisions run independently. Basketball one division. Each team plays 24 conference game. Football divides into three divisions, 8 teams each. Three division champions and one wild card go to the conference championship game.

West division: Washington, Washington St, Oregon, Oregon St, Cal, Stanford, Arizona, Arizona St.
Central division: Utah, Colorado, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, Virginia Tech, Virginia.
Southeast division: UNC, Duke, Wake, NC State, Georgia Tech, Clemson, Florida St, Miami.

Miami might want to switch place with Virginia though, if both schools want to.

I want this so bad. PACC. Makes a ton of sense, good cultural fit, and expands coast to coast. I love this.

 

[Scooch]

JB and Gross made a major miscalculation when they decided on the ACC. At the time it seemed to make sense for basketball and to keep us on the East Coast. But in hindsight, it was a huge error.

Hard disagree. The ACC has always been, by far, the best institutional and geographic fit for SU among the P5 conferences (assuming the Big East was doomed).

The ACC has six private schools as members. Literally every other P5 conference had only 1 at the time of the last major realignment (2011).

ACC schools are largely located in areas that have substantial populations of migrated northerners, and/or SU alums. They're also located mostly in high-growth areas.

Are you suggesting that SU should not have joined the ACC in 2011? What was the play? Decline membership, forsake tens of millions of dollars in media money, and play in the AAC? Drop football to independent status and stay in the Big East?

 

[Toga]

I just enjoy the word accretive.

 

[FrancoPizza]

They can make it work if done in stages which would happen anyway. It would be the "plan" but not the action.

SEC takes FSU and Clemson, who say that they are leaving in 2035.

A year later UNC then has to decide B1G or SEC. IMO they chose B1G and go along with Miami, GA Tech, and UVA. Exit 2035.

A year later SEC then offers NC State and VA Tech. Exit 2035.

A year later B1G takes Duke, BC, SU, and Notre Dame.

Now in 2026 they can vote to dissolve the ACC as only Louisville, Pitt, and Wake are left.

So the league dissolves in 2026 even though it would could technically be in tact until the 2035 exit?

 

[oldpinepoint]

Hard disagree. The ACC has always been, by far, the best institutional and geographic fit for SU among the P5 conferences (assuming the Big East was doomed).

The ACC has six private schools as members. Literally every other P5 conference had only 1 at the time of the last major realignment (2011).

ACC schools are largely located in areas that have substantial populations of migrated northerners, and/or SU alums. They're also located mostly in high-growth areas.

Are you suggesting that SU should not have joined the ACC in 2011? What was the play? Decline membership, forsake tens of millions of dollars in media money, and play in the AAC? Drop football to independent status and stay in the Big East?

Probably the thought of reaching out to the B10. I think In a perfect world knowing what we know now, and IF both the Big10 and the ACC were options in 2011, we should have selected the B10. While I understand the institutional fit for the ACC, I always felt personally the B10 was a better geographical fit and more in tune what I would have wanted personally. To each their own I guess, can’t dwell on the past but look to the future

 

[orangecuse]

Hindsight is always clear. The ACC at the time was the correct call. The ACC should have been proactive in pushing for a network and expansion earlier. The Big beat them to the punch and the ACC didn't respond well until it was too late. At this point the move is to add accretive value via the pac. How that is accomplished I don't know but i do think that something will be announced soon if it is going to happen as the Pac is in play. Time will tell but the bottom line is we are very lucky that we got into the ACC and that the GOR is strong.

Tru dat!

I've often mentioned since our invite that we should be thanking our lucky stars daily and twice on Sunday's that the ACC gave us such a lifeline. The ACC southern/Carolina school bias garb has been just that, garbage. It's so inconsequential in the larger realm...just ask UConn, which undoubtedly, we would be today if the ACC wasn't so gracious.

Prior leadership (Buzz Shaw era, etc.) were huge failures relative to being stewards of the athletic program, especially football. We got so far behind the eight ball, that even now with all the upgrades in facilities, etc. that the ACC has assisted with/been able to afford us, we are still playing catch up...and likely always will in some regard. Lally appears wonderful, but by the time that is completed, it'll probably be a day late and a dollar short in comparison to what other P5 schools have done or will be doing IMO. Moreover, our football record on the field, for the most part, has been flat out abysmal for over two decades, etc.

I have been a diehard SU fan for some 50 years now...bleeding Orange through and through. However, I'm a realist, and we are seemingly nothing more than leeches, imposters, etc. nowadays, on the P5/highest level football side and realm.

If we do somehow miraculously again get some type of lifeline in the future, then I guess lightning can indeed strike twice in the same exact area.

 

[Scooch]

Probably the thought of reaching out to the B10. I think In a perfect world knowing what we know now, and IF both the Bi b10 and the ACC were options in 2011, we should have selected the B10. While I understand the institutional fit for the ACC, I always felt personally the B10 was a better geographical fit and more in tune what I would have wanted personally. To each their own I guess, can’t dwell on the past but look to the future

SU has been in contact with the B1G since the early 90s, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think "reaching out" is a viable strategy when a very lucrative and enviable ACC invite was literally on the table.

I always felt the allure of the B1G was reconnecting with Penn State, and I guess getting to play Michigan and Ohio State. But watching SU head to Des Moines, Minneapolis, Lincoln, Lansing, etc. held no appeal to me. There's just nothing there for us. At least in the ACC we tend to attract students from VA, NC, FL and the like.

 

[CousCuse]

Tru dat!

I've often mentioned since our invite that we should be thanking our lucky stars daily and twice on Sunday's that the ACC gave us such a lifeline. The ACC southern/Carolina school bias garb has been just that, garbage. It's so inconsequential in the larger realm...just ask UConn, which undoubtedly, we would be today if the ACC wasn't so gracious.

Prior leadership (Buzz Shaw era, etc.) were huge failures relative to being stewards of the athletic program, especially football. We got so far behind the eight ball, that even now with all the upgrades in facilities, etc. that the ACC has assisted with/been able to afford us, we are still playing catch up...and likely always will in some regard. Lally appears wonderful, but by the time that is completed, it'll probably be a day late and a dollar short in comparison to what other P5 schools have done or will be doing IMO. Moreover, our football record on the field, for the most part, has been flat out abysmal for over two decades, etc.

I have been a diehard SU fan for some 50 years now...bleeding Orange through and through. However, I'm a realist, and we are seemingly nothing more than leeches, imposters, etc. nowadays, on the P5/highest level football side and realm.

If we do somehow miraculously again get some type of lifeline in the future, then I guess lightning can indeed strike twice in the same exact area.

Syracuse, because of its history and because of its fanbase and because of its place as the only major athletic program in the state of New York was always in play to get into the final big conference alignment. The difference in payout from the top level to the next level is going to be a lot of money, like $80 million a year when it's all said and done. That's almost a billion dollars a decade.

 

[Bayside44]

SU has been in contact with the B1G since the early 90s, if I'm not mistaken. I don't think "reaching out" is a viable strategy when a very lucrative and enviable ACC invite was literally on the table.

I always felt the allure of the B1G was reconnecting with Penn State, and I guess getting to play Michigan and Ohio State. But watching SU head to Des Moines, Minneapolis, Lincoln, Lansing, etc. held no appeal to me. There's just nothing there for us. At least in the ACC we tend to attract students from VA, NC, FL and the like.

Dick_in_MI is in Lansing. That almost balances it...almost...

 

[elimunelson]

Hard disagree. The ACC has always been, by far, the best institutional and geographic fit for SU among the P5 conferences (assuming the Big East was doomed).

The ACC has six private schools as members. Literally every other P5 conference had only 1 at the time of the last major realignment (2011).

ACC schools are largely located in areas that have substantial populations of migrated northerners, and/or SU alums. They're also located mostly in high-growth areas.

Are you suggesting that SU should not have joined the ACC in 2011? What was the play? Decline membership, forsake tens of millions of dollars in media money, and play in the AAC? Drop football to independent status and stay in the Big East?

Hindsight is a cruel mistress.

It was the right decision made for all the wrong reasons as i've said. I do not like the ACC culturally for Syracuse as i'm an old school Big East guy. But if you don't have a job you need to do whatever it takes to support the family. Syracuse had to move to the ACC to support the athletic dept even if the likes of Jake Crouthamel and Jim Boeheim held their noses at various times.

Decisions made purely for money always end up being the wrong decision.

 

[elimunelson]

I want this so bad. PACC. Makes a ton of sense, good cultural fit, and expands coast to coast. I love this.

I'm not sure i'll love any additional frankensteinian conference allignment that isn't 100% geographically based. It's all so farcical at this point that the only thing i'm rooting for is gross government overreach to tramp down on these grand plans of big land grant schools trying to establish tv dominance.

Ultimately inaction is ok with me but i really want some sort of anti-trust lawsuit or a congressional oversight of the nonsense happening with tax exempt operations.