Villanova

[SoBeCuse]

You start to get better when you accept that another program has passed you.

Nova has passed us. They are an elite program.

Who is our next coach? We can't get trapped in the "JB is a HOF coach" mentality.

How do we replace him? That conversation should start now.

I just wonder how much we can do in this current system. For awhile now Boeheim has been trading away offense for zone fits on D. You can’t even try to run Nova’s stuff and scheme because we play zone. We can’t seem to get the real elite players so the further down the trough guys who are ‘zone fits’ are beanpoles with some athleticism and measurables but very raw bball players. I mean the level of skill on the floor tonight (including UM) blows us out of the water. We have so many guys year after year who can’t dribble, catch, shoot, finish, etc. But, we’re long with wingspans.

 

[hungrychuck]

I just wonder how much we can do in this current system. For awhile now Boeheim has been trading away offense for zone fits on D. You can’t even try to run Nova’s stuff and scheme because we play zone. We can’t seem to get the real elite players so the further down the trough guys who are ‘zone fits’ are beanpoles with some athleticism and measurables but very raw bball players. I mean the level of skill on the floor tonight (including UM) blows us out of the water. We have so many guys year after year who can’t dribble, catch, shoot, finish, etc. But, we’re long with wingspans.

Really good post IMO.

Especially how much longer do we go with "zone fits."

Even if we can't draw elite players anymore, wouldn't it be nice to have Top 100 recruits who can play offense?

I think JB has decided how he wants to win and how he can win.

I'm not one of those who thinks we're doomed the day JB retires.

If Providence can draw Ed Cooley, if URI (and now UConn) can draw Dan Hurley, are we really convinced we can't draw a proper replacement for JB?

We need to think about offense going forward.

We need a basketball Dino. How crazy would the Dome be if we're running again?

 

[omniorange]

You start to get better when you accept that another program has passed you.

Nova has passed us. They are an elite program.

Who is our next coach? We can't get trapped in the "JB is a HOF coach" mentality.

How do we replace him? That conversation should start now.

Nova went three decades before winning their second championship and now they have three. Who is to say it won't happen to us in the future?

As for your comments which I have bolded above, we already had that in place and according to some on this board, we stunk during that period as well. LOL

As I pointed out in another thread, this 10s decade has been the program's best decade so far in terms of NCAA success and that is while spending 40% of the decade under far too harsh sanctions from an ineffectual NCAA administration that crucifies a program for what were indeed infractions but relatively minor ones in comparison to others who have both come before, during, and after ours.

I just don't get this attitude of - if we only get rid of JB everything would be fine. But to each their own.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[Newhouser]

Wright is ahead of the curve on style but the depth is a little hype. They have 6 guys contribute. They also have recruited better and smarter than us and it helps that they are not in a pressure cooker league. That said - its not just Nova that is playing the next style, but they are certainly playing it the best. I think however that this is similar to Florida with Donovan. Once Jay moves on or gets old they will never sniff these heights again but they are on some roll.

One final thing as a Knick fan - if we draft any guy who was on the floor tonight I am going to be peeved. That was as fun a team as college hoops has had in a while and IMHO the most intriguing NBA guy is the Frosh big for NOva.

 

[Fly Rodder]

Wright is ahead of the curve on style but the depth is a little hype. They have 6 guys contribute.

Well, that is their depth ... six of their 11 scholarship players have taken a redshirt at some point. They lose two guys, probably, and get three new recruits next season. Who on Syracuse would start at Nova this last season? Granted the style of play is different, but in terms of basketball skills and ability? Battle ... maybe? Depth isn't just running 10 guys out there each game, but running out 6 or 7 guys who should be out there and having another three who can sop up 7-8 minutes and not be a complete hindrance.

 

[OttoMets]

I hate Nova, can't stand Philadelphia sports, but they are the envy of every college bball fan right now. Never would have imagined they were capable of this, even 3 years ago.

Yeah, this. I love what they do, I'll root for them over the big-conference state schools, but then I look at all the bandwagon Philadelphia people who are acting like they're fans when 5 years ago they'd never seen a Nova game and it pisses me off.

But generally it's cool to see what they've put together down there. I like good basketball.

 

[Scooch]

I guess everyone who was adamant that non-P5 schools would never compete for titles was very, very wrong.

Nova is one of the few schools that plays enjoyable basketball. Much of college hoops is torture to watch. Kudos to them.

 

[two3zone]

I guess everyone who was adamant that non-P5 schools would never compete for titles was very, very wrong.

Nova is one of the few schools that plays enjoyable basketball. Much of college hoops is torture to watch. Kudos to them.

The people who said non P5 schools would end up bad are flipping it to the Big East is P5* so they refuse to admit they were wrong. Uconn sucks and there's no doubt about that, but many other schools are having success.

 

[Scooch]

The people who said non P5 schools would end up bad are flipping it to the Big East is P5* so they refuse to admit they were wrong. Uconn sucks and there's no doubt about that, but many other schools are having success.

It was always nonsense.

If Hurley is a good coach then UConn can be nationally competitive again in short order. It's college hoops, not college football, you need like 4-5 really good players to be top 25. Not a Herculean task.

 

[Symphony Steve]

Yeah, this. I love what they do, I'll root for them over the big-conference state schools, but then I look at all the bandwagon Philadelphia people who are acting like they're fans when 5 years ago they'd never seen a Nova game and it pisses me off.

But generally it's cool to see what they've put together down there. I like good basketball.

A lot of Philly fans, like me, were fans of the Big Five going back a long ways. I'm thrilled for Villanova. Especially since Jay Wright reversed what that weasel Rollie Massamino did--he recommitted 'Nova to the tradition of the Big 5. People who didn't grow up in this area with that history can't relate to it.

This team reminds me of a Big 5 team in that we're talking about players who grew within the system. While people on the board can argue about whether they were 3 or 4 stars, what they weren't were one-and-doners. And they didn't place individual stats above team goals.

I think it's less about 'Nova's style of play and more about building a team around the philosophy of having players grow within the system. It's a viable alternative to the Kentucky and, yes, Duke models of bringing in 5 AA's every year and watching them leave.

 

[Alsacs]

Can the Milwaukee Bucks please throw Insane money at Jay Wright.

Coaching Giannis isn’t a bad job.

 

[NineOneSeven]

It was always nonsense.

If Hurley is a good coach then UConn can be nationally competitive again in short order. It's college hoops, not college football, you need like 4-5 really good players to be top 25. Not a Herculean task.

UConn is apparently done forever because of their conference... which had two teams in the top 10 at times this season.

 

[cuse10]

I love the hyperbole by some of the posters here. It never fails. So much woe is me. Villanova was the perfect storm. It is simply their time as it was for Florida.

• The administration did not fire Jay Wright after failing to advance past the first weekend for a number of years. They could have fired him after finishing 13-19 in 2012. They didn't because they couldn't get someone better. The fanbase feels pretty stupid about getting the pitchforks out now don't they?
• They got guys who were willing to redshirt to get better and provide depth for the future. How many kids across the nation are willing to do that? Bridges is a RS-Junior.
• They miraculously landed Josh Hart and Jalen Brunson, the latter due to his father being a sexual deviant and forcing Temple to pull the offer. They were a package deal to the other school in Philly.
• Six teams left the Big East conference and could no longer effectively recruit the area like they previously did. Who's the last kid from Philadelphia to go to Syracuse? Villanova was there to fill the void.

EDIT: It isn't fair to the Basketball program to compare their situation to Nova's. Syracuse had some of the harshest sanctions you'll see on a major program which did what they were intended to; cripple them and throw their future into doubt like many of you continue to do every day on here. Unlike Penn State, SU did not get the benefit of the doubt from the NCAA to lift them early when it was apparent that the punishment was working too well.

 

[OrangeFoo]

Nova went three decades before winning their second championship and now they have three. Who is to say it won't happen to us in the future?

As for your comments which I have bolded above, we already had that in place and according to some on this board, we stunk during that period as well. LOL

As I pointed out in another thread, this 10s decade has been the program's best decade so far in terms of NCAA success and that is while spending 40% of the decade under far too harsh sanctions from an ineffectual NCAA administration that crucifies a program for what were indeed infractions but relatively minor ones in comparison to others who have both come before, during, and after ours.

I just don't get this attitude of - if we only get rid of JB everything would be fine. But to each their own.

Cheers,
Neil

I don't think its about whether the team does well in the NCAAs because JB has the perfect system for winning in the NCAAs... I think the concerns most fans have are:
- The product is an eye sore, to put it mildly. Last time I checked people watch sports as an escape and to enjoy themselves and I personally can say I no longer enjoy watching Syracuse basketball because grind it out brick laying and rock chucking is just not fun. It's actually really sad because one of the things that first drew me to Syracuse and made me stick with them over the years was the wide open offensive play. When the Big East was at its peak I took pride in being a Syracuse fan because even though other teams like Pitt would resort to thuggery we still tried to play offense and up tempo. Those days are clearly gone as JB is now going with his gut tells him are the percentages.
- We are the bubble... no other team the last 5 years or so has come to be as synonymous with the bubble as the Syracuse Orange. Should a program of our supposed stature and resources live on the bubble like we do? Probably not.
- Our recruiting has definitely been on a downtick... yes yes I get it the sanctions hurt us. It seems to be picking up then we lost our best recruit. I'll hold off on judgement to see how 2019 shapes up but from reading the board I'm not sensing much optimism for 2019.
- constant roster drama... I get it... crap happens but it seems to happen to us more than any other program in America. Is it a coincidence or is it because we have a septuagenerian who sees himself as a CEO as the HC which is a model that I don't think works that well in college.
- Maybe a reflection of the previous two points but we always have limited depth leading to players who are very tired and leaving us susceptible to foul trouble.

Anyways I don't think canning JB fixes all ills... but I do believe that when he leaves some areas could get much better while others will undoubtedly get worse. I don't think there is a better game day coach in America so the next coach is going to have tough shoes to fill but I think the next coach has plenty of low hanging fruit to go after in terms of roster development and offensive innovation as well.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think its about whether the team does well in the NCAAs because JB has the perfect system for winning in the NCAAs... I think the concerns most fans have are:
- The product is an eye sore, to put it mildly. Last time I checked people watch sports as an escape and to enjoy themselves and I personally can say I no longer enjoy watching Syracuse basketball because grind it out brick laying and rock chucking is just not fun. It's actually really sad because one of the things that first drew me to Syracuse and made me stick with them over the years was the wide open offensive play. When the Big East was at its peak I took pride in being a Syracuse fan because even though other teams like Pitt would resort to thuggery we still tried to play offense and up tempo. Those days are clearly gone as JB is now going with his gut tells him are the percentages.
- We are the bubble... no other team the last 5 years or so has come to be as synonymous with the bubble as the Syracuse Orange. Should a program of our supposed stature and resources live on the bubble like we do? Probably not.
- Our recruiting has definitely been on a downtick... yes yes I get it the sanctions hurt us. It seems to be picking up then we lost our best recruit. I'll hold off on judgement to see how 2019 shapes up but from reading the board I'm not sensing much optimism for 2019.
- constant roster drama... I get it... crap happens but it seems to happen to us more than any other program in America. Is it a coincidence or is it because we have a septuagenerian who sees himself as a CEO as the HC which is a model that I don't think works that well in college.
- Maybe a reflection of the previous two points but we always have limited depth leading to players who are very tired and leaving us susceptible to foul trouble.

Anyways I don't think canning JB fixes all ills... but I do believe that when he leaves some areas could get much better while others will undoubtedly get worse. I don't think there is a better game day coach in America so the next coach is going to have tough shoes to fill but I think the next coach has plenty of low hanging fruit to go after in terms of roster development and offensive innovation as well.

Can I use this post next time Townie lectures somebody about being an ungrateful fan?

 

[RF2044]

I don't think its about whether the team does well in the NCAAs because JB has the perfect system for winning in the NCAAs... I think the concerns most fans have are:
- The product is an eye sore, to put it mildly. Last time I checked people watch sports as an escape and to enjoy themselves and I personally can say I no longer enjoy watching Syracuse basketball because grind it out brick laying and rock chucking is just not fun. It's actually really sad because one of the things that first drew me to Syracuse and made me stick with them over the years was the wide open offensive play. When the Big East was at its peak I took pride in being a Syracuse fan because even though other teams like Pitt would resort to thuggery we still tried to play offense and up tempo. Those days are clearly gone as JB is now going with his gut tells him are the percentages.
- We are the bubble... no other team the last 5 years or so has come to be as synonymous with the bubble as the Syracuse Orange. Should a program of our supposed stature and resources live on the bubble like we do? Probably not.
- Our recruiting has definitely been on a downtick... yes yes I get it the sanctions hurt us. It seems to be picking up then we lost our best recruit. I'll hold off on judgement to see how 2019 shapes up but from reading the board I'm not sensing much optimism for 2019.
- constant roster drama... I get it... crap happens but it seems to happen to us more than any other program in America. Is it a coincidence or is it because we have a septuagenerian who sees himself as a CEO as the HC which is a model that I don't think works that well in college.
- Maybe a reflection of the previous two points but we always have limited depth leading to players who are very tired and leaving us susceptible to foul trouble.

Anyways I don't think canning JB fixes all ills... but I do believe that when he leaves some areas could get much better while others will undoubtedly get worse. I don't think there is a better game day coach in America so the next coach is going to have tough shoes to fill but I think the next coach has plenty of low hanging fruit to go after in terms of roster development and offensive innovation as well.

The perpetual drama is what's most tiresome. Would be nice to just have a normal offseason, and be excited about what we're building.

 

[omniorange]

Orangefoo, I actually liked your response for the most part. About the only thing I would quibble with is the fact we were bubble the last three (not five) seasons (which obviously was impacted by our sanctions since prior to that we were a 3, 1, 3, 1, 4, and 3 seeded team in NCAAs). The year we didn't make it was the year we were actually decent on offense scoring 76.1 pts per game on .458 fg%, .379% 3pt%, and .795 ft%. We just stunk defensively. lol

I certainly would like to see a nice tight 8-man rotation playing both good offense and defense. I believe JB wants the same thing. We will never lead the league in offensive scoring like Nova did this year. However, 73-77 pts per game should be the goal. Do you doubt that if Bazely had come and put forth a team oriented effort that we wouldn't have attained that next year with Brisset, Carey, Marek, Hughes, and a healthy Sidibe on the team? I don't.

JB will, of course, eventually retire. But put me in the camp that many on here who want him gone will eventually miss him after he is gone. They may enjoy the offense but finding a coach with consistent NCAA success is hard to replace.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[samspann1]

The perpetual drama is what's most tiresome. Would be nice to just have a normal offseason, and be excited about what we're building.

Wish I could like this post more than just once.

 

[Townie72]

Can I use this post next time Townie lectures somebody about being an ungrateful fan?

Won’t work.

This is a disgruntled fan who declares SU to be an eyesore and no fun to watch.

Sounds like he’s on the way out the door since he is unfettered by any connection to the school other than being a fan of the way things used to be.

 

[SmilinBob]

I enjoy watching Nova play offense and D and they go after free balls hard consistently.

 

[rrlbees]

Just dawned on me that Philly and their fans just got the NC just a few months after winning the Super Bowl.

 

[cuseattle]

Someone at the end of the broadcast called it Super/Nova.

 

[Alsacs]

Won’t work.

This is a disgruntled fan who declares SU to be an eyesore and no fun to watch.

Sounds like he’s on the way out the door since he is unfettered by any connection to the school other than being a fan of the way things used to be.

I am being honest you should be requested by every public school in the country in the nation to speak to Freshman entering HS.

As I think millennials need to hear your message. I am being honest and complementary with that.

However your opinions on Syracuse fandom I completely disagree.

 

[tbonezone]

heard the numbers this am but don't have them at hand. but it sounds like NOVA's draft classes typically rank in the 30's and 40's ?

 

[Townie72]

I am being honest you should be requested by every public school in the country in the nation to speak to Freshman entering HS.

As I think millennials need to hear your message. I am being honest and complementary with that.

However your opinions on Syracuse fandom I completely disagree.

Well, I can’t imagine what I could possibly tell millennials. So let’s leave that lay. They are going to learn some hard lessons, but it isn’t my job to explain it to them.

You don’t think I understand where you are coming from. But I do.

This isn’t any different from the saloon (Ivy Inn) in my neighborhood at home. The talk of sports was never-ending. The arguments went on and on starting with subjects like “Who is better Mantle or May’s?”

The difference between here and the Ivy Inn is how sensitive people are to anyone challenging their opinions.

Not that this would be news to you, but I think Boeheim is a smart guy with a huge amount of experience who wants to win every game more than anybody, including any poster on this forum. So on matters of strategy or players, he knows what he is doing. The likelihood that someone watching games in the family room actually sees something he is doing that is wrong or has a better idea is almost nonexistent.

I also think that many fans have a misunderstanding of the how competitive the world of college basketball has become for players, for coaches, and for wins. They have an inflated view of SUs current stature. We cannot choose the recruits we get. (We have an advantage in that we are looking for a slightly different type of player and that means we aren’t constantly going head-to-head with everybody else for the same guy)

As to what it takes to be a fan, and I have said this before, if you don’t like Boeheim, SUs style of play, the recruiting strategy and the players, then what is it you do like?!!!