Ville wants out

[Townie72]

I recall seeing a thread or an article that said it was ESPN who suggested UConn. The ACC asked ESPN how they could reopen their contract and negotiate for more money, and the ACC told them ("suggested") they should expand and add SU and UConn. Then BC got involved and vetoed UConn.

Ahhhh, Doc ... you aren't suggesting the ACC didn't know what was in the contract they signed, are you?

Seriously, there was a clause in the ACC - ESPN contract that specifically stated that the contract could be renegotiated if the ACC were to add two more teams.

When the market price of college football went up --- shown by the PAC 10 deal -- the ACC decided to trigger this re-negotiation by adding two new teams. Unless they added two teasm they couldn't open up the contract and take advantage of the new market price.

It may or may not have been that the ACC asked ESPN formally or informally which teams would add the most value during the renegotiation phase. It's doubtful that information will be shared. No body knows. And there's nothing illegal about any of this.

The ACC probably considered anumber of factors in deciding who to invite and strengthening ACC basketball was almost certainly one of them.

The UConn people believe that BC blackballed them. Maybe so. But maybe the BC people just reminded them about the lawsuit that UConn led agianst the ACC that cost everyone a ton in legal fees.

 

[MaxwellCuse]

Just a matter of time before Boise pulls a TCU.

Yeah. The piece by Matt Harrigan posted on syracuse.com about 40 minutes ago contained this nugget that I hadn't heard before:

"Others schools joining the Big East in 2013 -- San Diego State, Houston, Southern Methodist, UCF and Memphis -- have all withdrawn from their respective conferences. CBSSports' Brett McMurphy said it's possible the MWC discussed helping Boise State pay the $5 million exit fee to leave the Big East. If Boise waits until July 1, 2013 or after to exit the Big East, it would have to provide 27 months notice and pay a $10 million exit fee."

Boise, it would seem, has never been quite as commited to membership in the BE as the other newbies.

 

[Townie72]

Kind of remember this now. I do recall discussions about BC "being the one that blocked UConn". But if that article is correct, then no one really cared about UConn. Sounds like the ACC said "how about UConn". And BC said "nah, look at Pitt instead". And the ACC said "ok, whatever".

That article reads to me as they wanted SU and didn't really care who came along. They needed 2 to renegotiate, and wanted 1 in particular.

How about, the ACC said, "How about UConn". And BC said, "Aren't they the SOBs that led the filing of that lawsuit against us?"

And the ACC said, "Yeah, that's right. Screw them. We'll take Pitt. They joined the suit, but it was UConn who originated the thing."

 

[rrlbees]

Hindsight says we did the right thing not joining that lawsuit. Don't burn bridges, you never know what the future holds. UConn was dumb to think that was the end of expansion.

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[Chip]

How about, the ACC said, "How about UConn". And BC said, "Aren't they the SOBs that led the filing of that lawsuit against us?"

And the ACC said, "Yeah, that's right. Screw them. We'll take Pitt. They joined the suit, but it was UConn who originated the thing."

Staying miles away from that lawsuit seemed like a great idea at the time. I had no idea how great of an idea that would end up being. Score one for Buzz? I guess the fact that we were in the top 3 and were pushed aside by a perfect storm of events, both nonsensical (UNC, Duke) and political (UVA), we knew we had a good chance of getting a phone call again in the future. The other schools had no such thought, so figured why not sue. Ahhh, hindsight.

 

[javadoc]

Ahhhh, Doc ... you aren't suggesting the ACC didn't know what was in the contract they signed, are you?

Bad phrasing on my part, of course ESPN knew what was in the contract. In essence, the ACC asked ESPN which teams they should add. There was some concern that if this went to court, ESPN could look bad for getting involved in that capacity. There were threads discussing the legal implications of interference with contract etc.

 

[Townie72]

Hindsight says we did the right thing not joining that lawsuit. Don't burn bridges, you never know what the future holds. UConn was dumb to think that was the end of expansion.

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The lawsuit was the brainchild of political opportunist AG Blumenthal. The UConn people weren't strong enough or smart enough to keep it from happening.

Lots of lessons here. No matter how bad things get, no matter how outrageously or unfairly you have been treated, be gracious. Smile. Congratulate the winner. Make them think more of you. It'll pay dividends down the road.

Because things change --- often in unpredictable ways --- you'll frequently benefit big time.

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

 

[TexanMark]

Staying miles away from that lawsuit seemed like a great idea at the time. I had no idea how great of an idea that would end up being. Score one for Buzz? I guess the fact that we were in the top 3 and were pushed aside by a perfect storm of events, both nonsensical (UNC, Duke) and political (UVA), we knew we had a good chance of getting a phone call again in the future. The other schools had no such thought, so figured why not sue. Ahhh, hindsight.

Being left at the altar allowed Cuse (for SU anyways) to aggressively move forward on facilities improvement and new marketing initiatives...not a bad thing.

 

[All4SU]

The lawsuit was the brainchild of political opportunist AG Blumenthal. The UConn people weren't strong enough or smart enough to keep it from happening.

Lots of lessons here. No matter how bad things get, no matter how outrageously or unfairly you have been treated, be gracious. Smile. Congratulate the winner. Make them think more of you. It'll pay dividends down the road.

Because things change --- often in unpredictable ways --- you'll frequently benefit big time.

Friends come and go. Enemies accumulate.

Absolutely true.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Staying miles away from that lawsuit seemed like a great idea at the time. I had no idea how great of an idea that would end up being. Score one for Buzz? I guess the fact that we were in the top 3 and were pushed aside by a perfect storm of events, both nonsensical (UNC, Duke) and political (UVA), we knew we had a good chance of getting a phone call again in the future. The other schools had no such thought, so figured why not sue. Ahhh, hindsight.

Not to take away credit where it's due, but...
Since we made it so close to the final cut, would SU joining the lawsuit have been detrimental to the "case"? Possibly to the point of if they wanted in, that they were advised against it (either by their own lawyers or the Blumenthal team)?

And did the lawsuit cost SU money in any way? We weren't on the hook for the legal fees, but were any subsequent moves made by the conference to help the litigants make up their losses?

 

[Townie72]

Not to take away credit where it's due, but...
Since we made it so close to the final cut, would SU joining the lawsuit have been detrimental to the "case"? Possibly to the point of if they wanted in, that they were advised against it (either by their own lawyers or the Blumenthal team)?

And did the lawsuit cost SU money in any way? We weren't on the hook for the legal fees, but were any subsequent moves made by the conference to help the litigants make up their losses?

No. They paid there own significant legal bills.

The suit accomplished nothing ... except the ACC schools did agree to give the BE schools some games.

 

[Moontan]

Just a matter of time before Boise pulls a TCU.

How would they do that?

I can see them changing their minds and staying in the MWC.
To really pull a TCU, they'd need a better offer from another conference.

I would expect them to play hardball with the NNBE and wait to commit until they see the actual $$ figures. In the end, I believe they stay in the MWC. Without Boise, I suspect SDSU may start reconsidering as wel.

 

[WoadBlue]

I am of the opinion that IF ND were to ever become #15 in the ACC they, and they alone, will decide #16 as a condition of their joining.

yep

ND will not join the ACC unless ND fully approves #16. And I am all for that.

I think ND would want Navy for football and be happy with either St Johns or Villanova for basketball: two schools sharing the 16th slot, 1 for each revenue sport.

 

[kingottoiii]

yep

ND will not join the ACC unless ND fully approves #16. And I am all for that.

I think ND would want Navy for football and be happy with either St Johns or Villanova for basketball: two schools sharing the 16th slot, 1 for each revenue sport.

Why would they want Navy as #16 in FB when they can just play Navy OOC in either Texas or SD as "road" games? That would be perfect for ND as they could play every other year in LA (USC), once in 4 years in Dallas (Navy), and once in 4 years in SD (Navy). They would have those two OOC games plus 8 ACC games that would span the entire country. Then they can maybe keep Michigan as well and add a cupcake for the 12th game.

 

[All4SU]

I think the ACC is too smart to go partial membership with anyone.

 

[kingottoiii]

I think the ACC is too smart to go partial membership with anyone.

If they are willing to do partial why not offer ND all but FB now? Screw the BE BBall schools.

 

[cusenole9]

Interesting idea...the idea here would be to give ND FB an easy place to land if they get squeezed into a conference?

 

[WoadBlue]

If they are willing to do partial why not offer ND all but FB now? Screw the BE BBall schools.

If ND were to get ACC membership for everything but what the ACC needs from ND, football membership, ND would be using the ACC.

If, on the other hand, the ACC can benefit by having partial members, and the partial members also benefit, then everybody is a winner.

BE football will be forever reduced to what many of us call mid-major when we talk about basketball. So the only way Navy can be part of Big Time football is if it gets into the ACC. And Navy is not stupid enough to think it could try ACC basketball. So Navy would benefit immensely if it could be the ACC's 16th football school. And the ACC would benefit immensely if taking Navy gets ND.

Similarly, a St Johns or Villanova would profit immeasurably as a member of ACC basketball. And either would add to ACC basketball.

ND will not be admitted to the ACC unless it joins for football. But if ND wants Navy for football, we would be insane not to have Navy for football and some nom-revenues and St Johns or Villanova for basketball and some non-revenues.

 

[WoadBlue]

Why would they want Navy as #16 in FB when they can just play Navy OOC in either Texas or SD as "road" games? That would be perfect for ND as they could play every other year in LA (USC), once in 4 years in Dallas (Navy), and once in 4 years in SD (Navy). They would have those two OOC games plus 8 ACC games that would span the entire country. Then they can maybe keep Michigan as well and add a cupcake for the 12th game.

WE are going to play 9 league games once Cuze and Pitt join. If ND plays 9 ACC games and Navy and SoCal, it has 1 game per year it can schedule. That is not going to fly half as easily as Navy being part of the 9 ACC games, leaving ND two open games per year.

 

[sufan]

that article kind of contradicts itself. b12 looked at pitt, so the acc moved into action. but they moved to Syracuse & storz??

wasnt that article debunked later on too?

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My impression is that the ACC timing was among other things strongly influenced by news that the Big 12 were considering Pitt as a possible new member.


My guess is that Pitt has a much stronger football history than UConn and RU and was favored by the "football" schools in combination with SU.


BC may have expressed their opinion re UConn but I doubt that was the deciding factor.

 

[SU2NASA]

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My impression is that the ACC timing was among other things strongly influenced by news that the Big 12 were considering Pitt as a possible new member.


My guess is that Pitt has a much stronger football history than UConn and RU and was favored by the "football" schools in combination with SU.


BC may have expressed their opinion re UConn but I doubt that was the deciding factor.

I don't think Rutgers was even a serious option at any time - the ACC was looking for schools that would boost it's basketball profile again - I can't imagine Rutgers was even considered.

 

[kingottoiii]

WE are going to play 9 league games once Cuze and Pitt join. If ND plays 9 ACC games and Navy and SoCal, it has 1 game per year it can schedule. That is not going to fly half as easily as Navy being part of the 9 ACC games, leaving ND two open games per year.

9 games is the plan but if ND wants 8 the ACC would be nuts to not go back to 8. There really is no reason to have 9 if you go to 16 teams with a pod system. As to the other post about ND for all but FB, don't you think that when/if ND ever joins a conference it would be a lot easier if the ACC already has a relationship with ND? If the ACC really is willing to do Navy/Nova as #16, then why in the hell would they not be willing to do a ND as #15 for all but FB if it IMPROVES the chances of ND one day coming for FB? When that time comes do you really think ND would pull all sports from the ACC (paying a $20 million exit fee) so they can go play FB in the B1G? I think the ACC would be a lot easier sell to alumni, boosters, and fans if ND is a partial member first. Also having ND become a partial member will keep the ACC football schools happy. They would be crazy to leave for $10 million more per year knowing that one day ND could join in FB.