Virginia's offense is bad

[pearl31]

nm

 

[cuseattle]

I was thinking a few years ago that Hop an Bennett would become a huge rivalry.

 

[OrangeDW]

I remember when teams like theirs were middle of the pack in their league, tough teams to play types. Could knock you off, hard to play against, but ultimately limited.

#2 in the country though? SMH. College hoops...yikes.

 

[cuse10]

I remember when teams like theirs were middle of the pack in their league, tough teams to play types. Could knock you off, hard to play against, but ultimately limited.

#2 in the country though? SMH. College hoops...yikes.

Yeah. College basketball is in a really bad state right now. Arguably the worst season of hoops in the last five years. They're not a #1 seed.

 

[Knicks411]

Their offense isn't great, 38th in the country, but their defense is off the charts good. #1 in adjusted defensive efficiency, 2 points per 100 better than #2, and 5 per 100 better than number 3!

We scored 61 in 57 possessions, that's actually a hell of an effort. North Carolina scored 49 points in 59 possessions, West Virginia got 61 in 62 possessions. Quickly scanning their schedule, we're the only team to crack a point per possession on them. Pretty crazy

 

[OrangeDW]

Yeah. College basketball is in a really bad state right now. Arguably the worst season of hoops in the last five years. They're not a #1 seed.

They strike me as a 20-10(9-7) 7 seed from a good league type team. But that’s based on old standards that I sometimes have trouble letting go of and realizing this is the new reality of college hoops.

 

[Knicks411]

They strike me as a 20-10(9-7) 7 seed from a good league type team. But that’s based on old standards that I sometimes have trouble letting go of and realizing this is the new reality of college hoops.

I don't know, like I said, they have by far the #1 defense in the country. That alone has to mean something.

I'm a little biased, my dad went there, so I follow them somewhat closely. They are incredibly well coached. Bennett is a fantastic coach. Can't say the style of play does it for me, but I guess you can't have it all.

 

[orangecuse]

I don't know, like I said, they have by far the #1 defense in the country. That alone has to mean something.

I'm a little biased, my dad went there, so I follow them somewhat closely. They are incredibly well coached. Bennett is a fantastic coach. Can't say the style of play does it for me, but I guess you can't have it all.

It's somewhat puzzling, as it's not as if they appear to have great athletes, decent, but certainly not great. I would argue that our guys are generally more athletic than theirs, yet none of our guys seemingly are ever capable of guarding anyone on their own...I wonder how Bennett does it? Does he threaten his players that if they don't lock in with that mental toughness necessary to guard/defend, he'll just go to zone 100% of the time?

 

[Hoo's That]

We had an unbelievably terrible shooting night against Wake (40%). It's hard to say whether that can be totally blamed on being a road game since we shot 49% vs. VPI in their dank and dismal Barn and 46% vs. Ga Tech (the 1st half was like vs. Wake, much better shooting in the 2nd half boosted the %). Not tremendously great, but not as bad as against Wake.

 

[jncuse]

They have the best adjusted defensive efficiency rating (83 pts /100 possessions) in the history of KP rankings. (Since 2002).

Part of that is tempo. While intentionally being deliberate on offence will hurt your own per possession numbers, it also kills the flow and ability of the other team to get easy baskets off the break. It's partly a trade off.

Let's not act like they are the only stall ball to have success. Wisconsin has often been in the national top 8 since 2000... although that 2015 Wisconsin team that lost to Duke, was actually a joy to watch because while they were a bit deliberate it seemed with a purpose and was a decent flow.

 

[orangecuse]

They have the best adjusted defensive efficiency rating (83 pts /100 possessions) in the history of KP rankings. (Since 2002).

Part of that is tempo. While intentionally being deliberate on offence will hurt your own per possession numbers, it also kills the flow and ability of the other team to get easy baskets off the break. It's partly a trade off.

Let's not act like they are the only stall ball to have success. Wisconsin has often been in the national top 8 since 2000... although that 2015 Wisconsin team that lost to Duke, was actually a joy to watch because while they were a bit deliberate it seemed with a purpose and was a decent flow.

Tony's Bennett's pop, Dick, coached at Wisconsin. Tony got his baptism from pops...like father, like son.

 

[Knicks411]

It's somewhat puzzling, as it's not as if they appear to have great athletes, decent, but certainly not great. I would argue that our guys are generally more athletic than theirs, yet none of our guys seemingly are ever capable of guarding anyone on their own...I wonder how Bennett does it? Does he threaten his players that if they don't lock in with that mental toughness necessary to guard/defend, he'll just go to zone 100% of the time?

It's a good point. And if you look at the statistical indicators that can be used as proxies for "athleticism" (block%, steal%), we're ahead of them.

I think a lot of it is just they are that well coached. They make you work for a shot, they don't let you get a second shot, they don't send you to the line, they just know what they're doing on that end of the floor. (Also worth pointing out, we have a really good defense too. 13th in the country)

 

[jncuse]

The top 3 are the same in the polls as KP. (Villanova, Purdue, Virginia)

#1 Villanova's strength is offensive leaning (#1 offence / #27 Defence).
#2 Purdue is balanced (#5 offence / #7 defence)
#3 Virginia is defence leaning (#38 offence / #1 Defence)

Based on my observations the team that does the best of these type come tourney time is the offence leaning team. When times get intense it's always easier to ramp up your defence. In preparing for games it can be argued that it's easier to implement a defensive tactical change.

I don't remember any "elite" team that is highly defence leaning winning the tournament.

 

[orangecuse]

It's a good point. And if you look at the statistical indicators that can be used as proxies for "athleticism" (block%, steal%), we're ahead of them.

I think a lot of it is just they are that well coached. They make you work for a shot, they don't let you get a second shot, they don't send you to the line, they just know what they're doing on that end of the floor. (Also worth pointing out, we have a really good defense too. 13th in the country)

No doubt our defense has been solid this year, with a few exceptions. The larger issue, imo, is how 100% of zone has contributed/bled into our offensive struggles and current state. At the end of the day, the first & foremost fundamental objective of basketball is putting the ball through the hoop.

 

[Knicks411]

The top 3 are the same in the polls as KP. (Villanova, Purdue, Virginia)

#1 Villanova's strength is offensive leaning (#1 offence / #27 Defence).
#2 Purdue is balanced (#5 offence / #7 defence)
#3 Virginia is defence leaning (#38 offence / #1 Defence)

Based on my observations the team that does the best of these type come tourney time is the offence leaning team. When times get intense it's always easier to ramp up your defence. In preparing for games it can be argued that it's easier to implement a defensive tactical change.

I don't remember any "elite" team that is highly defence leaning winning the tournament.

Interesting point, I feel like usually the teams that win though are the ones that are awesome on both ends, but the exceptions probably lean toward offense.

Without looking it up, I want to say Duke 2010, Duke 2015, and UNC last year were meh on defense and good on offense.

After looking it up; not really. All those teams were around 10 in defense. Though I do think it would be tough to find a team ranked 40 in either metric that won. 2014 UConn was 39 in offense, 10 in d, fwiw. They're an outlier though

 

[jncuse]

The top 3 are the same in the polls as KP. (Villanova, Purdue, Virginia)

#1 Villanova's strength is offensive leaning (#1 offence / #27 Defence).
#2 Purdue is balanced (#5 offence / #7 defence)
#3 Virginia is defence leaning (#38 offence / #1 Defence)

Based on my observations the team that does the best of these type come tourney time is the offence leaning team. When times get intense it's always easier to ramp up your defence. In preparing for games it can be argued that it's easier to implement a defensive tactical change.

I don't remember any "elite" team that is highly defence leaning winning the tournament.

I was looking at the 2015 Wisconsin team as compared to the 2018 Virginia team. Despite being deliberate they were really polar opposite of each other.

Wisconsin 2015 had the best offensive efficiency rating of any team EVER in the KP era in 2015.
Virginia 2018 has the best defensive efficiency rating of any team in the KP era

Wisconsin 2015 was #1 offence since 2002/ #35 defence
Virginia 2018 is #38 offence / #1 defence since 2002.

Wisconsin, while deliberate, fit the profile of a team that can do well in the NCAA. And they have historically done fairly well in the tournament because they are a deliberate team that executes well offensively.

Virginia has been the opposite the last 5 years. Really strong defensive ratings, not so good offensive. And they have struggled in the NCAA tournament never making the final 4.

 

[jncuse]

Interesting point, I feel like usually the teams that win though are the ones that are awesome on both ends, but the exceptions probably lean toward offense.

Without looking it up, I want to say Duke 2010, Duke 2015, and UNC last year were meh on defense and good on offense.

After looking it up; not really. All those teams were around 10 in defense. Though I do think it would be tough to find a team ranked 40 in either metric that won. 2014 UConn was 39 in offense, 10 in d, fwiw. They're an outlier though

Wisconsin was #35 in defence in 2015, and they made the title game and should have won. That is as probably as big as an outlier you will see.

 

[TinyManInside]

I was looking at the 2015 Wisconsin team as compared to the 2018 Virginia team. Despite being deliberate they were really polar opposite of each other.

Wisconsin 2015 had the best offensive efficiency rating of any team EVER in the KP era in 2015.
Virginia 2018 has the best defensive efficiency rating of any team in the KP era

Wisconsin 2015 was #1 offence since 2002/ #35 defence
Virginia 2018 is #38 offence / #1 defence since 2002.

Wisconsin, while deliberate, fit the profile of a team that can do well in the NCAA. And they have historically done fairly well in the tournament because they are a deliberate team that executes well offensively.

Virginia has been the opposite the last 5 years. Really strong defensive ratings, not so good offensive. And they have struggled in the NCAA tournament never making the final 4.

The 2015 Wisconsin team was a joy to watch.

 

[Knicks411]

Wisconsin was #35 in defence in 2015, and they made the title game and should have won. That is as probably as big as an outlier you will see.

Good one. I kinda throw UConn out because of how much of a fluke they were. Wisky was a good team.

09 UNC was 18, maybe that was the UNC team I was thinking of. Still, 18 isn't bad.

 

[Col. Bleep]

Their offense isn't great, 38th in the country, but their defense is off the charts good. #1 in adjusted defensive efficiency, 2 points per 100 better than #2, and 5 per 100 better than number 3!

We scored 61 in 57 possessions, that's actually a hell of an effort. North Carolina scored 49 points in 59 possessions, West Virginia got 61 in 62 possessions. Quickly scanning their schedule, we're the only team to crack a point per possession on them. Pretty crazy

The Orange played a good game.
But UVA's offense was good enough to put up enough points to win... and the SU defense isn't too bad itself.

A reasonable conclusion: it would be nice if the Orange had Virginia's offensive game...taking care of the ball and almost never putting up a bad shot.
But that would require movement and passing...and a couple of more guys who could actually put the ball in the net.

 

[FrancoPizza]

nm

 

[HtownOrange]

Based on the above, and the tail end of the game between UVA and SU, JB should tweak the running game and let the horses loose. When we get a defensive rebound, look for the transition opportunity, if it isn't there (Mr. Battle), fall back I to the half court offense.

We have not really run transition this season from the games I have watched. I was thinks ng this was due to the shallow bench and not having a true poi t guard. However, UVA is a highly disciplined team, the best way to beat a well disciplined team is to take them out of their element. SU probably has the better athletes and should run when possible.

The press screwed with UVA, need to mix easier to in to mess with their heads, but not enough to where they become familiar and find the holes. A disciplined team will find holes, that is what they do. Keeping the running and not allowing them to me to get in their groove is the way to beat them.

Plus, we haven't run like a JB team this season, time to let loose.

 

[jhmoss1812]

I'd prefer to describe our offense as efficient mediocrity. Very little interior scoring puts too much pressure on our guards to hit jump shots, even if our offensive sets do create a lot of open looks. But our defense is elite and will keep us in most games this year. Keep in mind that we started this season unranked. We are far exceeding expectations but I do think we have too many offensive deficiencies to actually cut down the nets this year. The emergence of DeAndre Hunter at the offensive end is promising though.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Syracuse's offense is bad. nm.

 

[pearl31]

Syracuse's offense is bad. nm.

And I was saying otherwise, right?