Waiters

[Melancer46]

I know he only had 2 assists but he was setting up his teammates all night. He got to the basket at will, like others have said his shot will come around, and when he's actually focused on defense he's been defending well. Also kendall Marshall looked terrible last night so that's one pick worse then Dion.

No it isn't. Marshall was a fringe lottery pick. Waiters was a top 5 pick, and people questioned it when he was chosen there.

Wouldn't you think when a guy is hearing people questioning whether or not he should have been a top 5 pick, he'd come out hungry to prove the doubters wrong and show why Cleveland took him instead of reporting to camp out of shape and not really looking like he gives a crap?

 

[kjb120]

No it isn't. Marshall was a fringe lottery pick. Waiters was a top 5 pick, and people questioned it when he was chosen there.

Wouldn't you think when a guy is hearing people questioning whether or not he should have been a top 5 pick, he'd come out hungry to prove the doubters wrong and show why Cleveland took him instead of reporting to camp out of shape and not really looking like he gives a crap?

Your exact words were I can't think of one player in this draft that has looked worse, and I know Kendall Marshall was the 13 pick but he still did not look like he should be a lottery pick or even top 20. Waiters should have come in better shape there's no disagreeing with that but overall he's showing he can get to the rim at ease which coming into the draft was his biggest asset. Like I said there were some possessions where he did play good defense, granted he didn't do it too often but like others have said this is a summer league. I also think his shot will come back around and hopefully he loses 10-15 pounds.

 

[albanycuse]

here is what Cavs beat reporter Michael Curry wrote after Dion's Game 2 performance:




And this is what he wrote this morning:

And

 

[Su Grad Wannabe]

Summer league? You talking about Summer league? C-mon we all know Dion plays his best when the lights is on..he is just bull sh!tting and you know this man!!

(hence the off balance jump shots)

 

[suthrills]

It looks like the Cavs got the Freshman Waiters not the Soph Waiters.
Inexcusable to be out of shape and not play hard.

 

[SoBeCuse]

I think the Cavs beat reporter is a bit harsh on him. His speed is fine even as out of shape as he is (which he is). He was getting to the rim in other games also he was just more aggressive yesterday. Yes his shot has been terrible and his mechanics but he has been setting up his teammates pretty well. On WKNR today they have a name for him. Dion "Pork Belly" Waiters. Oy.

 

[Orangezoo]

Melancer - you can't have it both ways.. if 16 pts and getting to the rim isn't enough effort.. what is.. 9, 6,5? My point was I agree he hasn't been impressive but to casually throw out he has just sucked doesn't really say much... add some expectations in there at least to make your point. He has been getting better however. One thing I think everyone has to take into account is how young the Cavs are. Its all great that so many of these guys are averaging bigger numbers on different teams. Lets remember that there are several guys on the Cav's summer league roster looking for touches, who will see regular minutes in the regular season. Samuels,Zeller,Thompson all are going to factor in significantly. Dion hasn't shot well, he also for the most part has not been forcing the issue. I will be honest, I was skeptical about Dion's rise, after seeing some of the workout videos I was a lot higher on him. His jumper isn't broke. He just has to get back into shape and get into rhythm. When he sheds the weight, he can get better lift on his jumper. Also remember, the role he was playing was next to Kyrie.. and then Kyrie busted his hand.

The fact Dion has progressively gotten better is a good sign.. his defense will pick up when Byron gets on him.. way too much over reaction.

 

[Melancer46]

Melancer - you can't have it both ways.. if 16 pts and getting to the rim isn't enough effort.. what is.. 9, 6,5? My point was I agree he hasn't been impressive but to casually throw out he has just sucked doesn't really say much... add some expectations in there at least to make your point. He has been getting better however. One thing I think everyone has to take into account is how young the Cavs are. Its all great that so many of these guys are averaging bigger numbers on different teams. Lets remember that there are several guys on the Cav's summer league roster looking for touches, who will see regular minutes in the regular season. Samuels,Zeller,Thompson all are going to factor in significantly. Dion hasn't shot well, he also for the most part has not been forcing the issue. I will be honest, I was skeptical about Dion's rise, after seeing some of the workout videos I was a lot higher on him. His jumper isn't broke. He just has to get back into shape and get into rhythm. When he sheds the weight, he can get better lift on his jumper. Also remember, the role he was playing was next to Kyrie.. and then Kyrie busted his hand.

The fact Dion has progressively gotten better is a good sign.. his defense will pick up when Byron gets on him.. way too much over reaction.

I expect him to go out and put forth a good effort. Attempting to move his feet on defense instead of just letting guys by every possession and then lazily try to get the backtip. It just looks awful because you see guys like Jeremy Lamb who had the "doesn't really want it" label going into the draft and he's balling like crazy right now and then you see Waiters who had the "nobody wants it more than this guy" label and he just looks disinterested for long stretches.

His last game was definitely his best game so far. He didn't force the issue too much, and he had a couple nice looks on passes (I remember one to Zeller who had popped out to the perimeter and another where he drove and skipped to the opposite corner but the pass was off). He was absolutely forcing the issue in his first game, and still doesn't show great shot selection. I really wanna see him work on getting quicker/smoother with his shot; it's a very choppy motion right now. His shooting so far has been god awful. I never really thought of him as a good shooter even this past year, but man, this just isn't how you'd like to make your debut in the NBA. And then I believe they mentioned that he forgot his jersey as well as showing up looking like Raymond Felton with all that flab. It just isn't a good look for a guy that people questioned as a top 5 pick to begin with.

I'm not going to write him off, because he has a lot of potential, and it's only summer league. But he doesn't seem to be taking it seriously at all while everyone else is out there playing their asses off for the most part.

 

[Gabjon]

You people are nuts! Summer league is where they take rookies and push them to the breaking point! Everyday is a game and a practice or two practices and Bryon Scott is known for running one of the roughest practices in the NBA! People who aren't in shape don't survive, people are in shape are in pain from day two or three on... everything is sore! It's like basketball boot camp and it's really meant for TV. The older players don't do all the practices and sometimes don't play in all the games.

 

[OttoMets]

here is what Cavs beat reporter Michael Curry wrote after Dion's Game 2 performance:

- The jump-shooting problem falls on bad mechanics and bad shot selection, but Waiters' troubles near the rim are just as problematic. He is starting his gather - the point where he picks up the ball and tries to power his way to the hoop - too far away from the basket. This leaves him having to use his momentum laterally just to get to the hoop, rather than using it to raise up above the defense for an easier finish at the rim. Waiters did show a little creativity in getting his shot up around the defense, but things would be much easier for him if he could penetrate deeper into the lane before picking the ball up for the shot...

This is a great observation (good beat guy; we never see this kind of analysis of Syracuse players). Dion found himself with the same problem during his February swoon; he'd gather too far from the hoop, waste his lift on lateral movement, not get the right elevation, and be stuck taking a low-percentage floater. He's really at his best when he takes off within five feet of the hoop and can either dunk or use glass.

Kid needs to play to his strength; he's never going to knock down jumpers with enough consistency (especially if they're wild fadeaways). Got to take it down low and play above the rim.

As for lack of fitness and effort on defense, heck, that's not good.

 

[reedny]

I think all this is premature. The Cav's writers have him under a microscope, and he's carrying 10 extra pounds. But that'll go away, as summer league isn't just games, it's also practices the same day. The pace and talent level are elevated. I agree that Dion's defensive focus has been spotty, and he's forcing his outside jumper (e.g., leaning back when he's unguarded). However, last night's game showed that he can not just set people up, but can get to the rim at will. We're all frustrated he hasn't exploded offensively, but clearly he has the talent to play as projected. The outside shot will come with 24/7 basketball and all the tutelage he'll get on mechanics. It's July, so let's not have a hissyfit because Waiters is not scoring 20 a game (yet).

I've been watching Austin Rivers play, and he's on his ass more than he's been upright -- he gets stuffed every time he gets inside, and picked every other time down the court. I doubt the Dukies have given up on him. Like Dion, he's a baller.

 

[orangefan13]

From what I saw Dion had about 10 points at halftime. To start the second half he was doubled teamed sometimes tripled with a big in the lane. Because of that, he made a few nice passes to start the second half. There was a obvious difference in the offense when Dion had the ball. He stands out and Few rookies do.

 

[longislandcuse]

How do you guys feel about the Cavs maybe trading for Bynum. Kyrie/Dion/Bynum?

Or maybe just Kyrie and Bynum since ESPN is reporting Waiters and Thompson could be involved...even though I dont think Waiters can be traded for 30 days?

 

[Melancer46]

How do you guys feel about the Cavs maybe trading for Bynum. Kyrie/Dion/Bynum?

Or maybe just Kyrie and Bynum since ESPN is reporting Waiters and Thompson could be involved...even though I dont think Waiters can be traded for 30 days?

Really? I had heard it's just Anderson Varejao and future draft picks that they'd be giving up.

 

[longislandcuse]

Really? I had heard it's just Anderson Varejao and future draft picks that they'd be giving up.

It was an interview with Ric Bucher where he just in passing mentioned the possibility of Waiters/Thompson being involved in a deal. I think the framework is Varejao/picks/cap relief from Cleveland. I doubt they give up any of their young players, although if I was a Cavs fan and Tristan Thompson prevented Bynum from becoming a Cavalier, I would go nuts.

 

[Melancer46]

It was an interview with Ric Bucher where he just in passing mentioned the possibility of Waiters/Thompson being involved in a deal. I think the framework is Varejao/picks/cap relief from Cleveland. I doubt they give up any of their young players, although if I was a Cavs fan and Tristan Thompson prevented Bynum from becoming a Cavalier, I would go nuts.

Yeah definitely agreed regarding Thompson lol. I don't even like Bynum, but Thompson's ceiling is as a good roleplayer/fringe starter IMO.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

It looks like the Cavs got the Freshman Waiters not the Soph Waiters.
Inexcusable to be out of shape and not play hard.

I just don't understand how he got out of shape so quickly if its as bad as everyone is making it seem. Too much wining and dining by potential agents? How does he not at least maintain his conditioning following the season and then the draft workouts?

 

[Melancer46]

I just don't understand how he got out of shape so quickly if its as bad as everyone is making it seem. Too much wining and dining by potential agents? How does he not at least maintain his conditioning following the season and then the draft workouts?

Well remember? He didn't work out for anybody. Easy to slack off when nobody's watching.

 

[Sgt Cuse]

Well remember? He didn't work out for anybody. Easy to slack off when nobody's watching.

Yeah, if Cleveland really gave him that guarantee, they are idiots. Were they really afraid of losing Dion to the first 3 picks? They then desereve having to work Dion back into shape.

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah, if Cleveland really gave him that guarantee, they are idiots. Were they really afraid of losing Dion to the first 3 picks? They then desereve having to work Dion back into shape.

Nah, Waiters said they weren't the team that promised him. I think it was the Suns or Raptors if I had to guess, although the Raptors strongly rejected that idea too.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Well remember? He didn't work out for anybody. Easy to slack off when nobody's watching.

Oh, I get it now. And this whole summer league thing must have been a complete surprise and shock to him then.

 

[Melancer46]

Oh, I get it now. And this whole summer league thing must have been a complete surprise and shock to him then.

Lol, if you've been reading my other posts in this thread, you'll know I'm not cutting him any slack either.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Lol, if you've been reading my other posts in this thread, you'll know I'm not cutting him any slack either.

I know. I was just being a bit of a wisea$$. Stuff like this drives me crazy.

If I'm a guard drafted 4th overall, no way do I want to be known as the guy who shows up fat. That's for centers and linemen in football.

 

[Melancer46]

I know. I was just being a bit of a wisea$$. Stuff like this drives me crazy.

If I'm a guard drafted 4th overall, no way do I want to be known as the guy who shows up fat. That's for centers and linemen in football.

Agreed 100%. Especially when people were saying the Cavs reached for him. I'd be showing up ready to prove everybody wrong.

 

[igor]

It would be nice if he'd actually guard someone. He's losing his man nearly every time down court.

put 2 and 2 together jackson