Wake Forest coach charged in deadly Queens attack on tourist

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
Punching a guy who is pretty defenseless(inebriated), is by definition a sucker punch. Only way this coach is not guilty of manslaughter is if the drunk guy was physically assaulting him.
Or banging on multiple cars with multiple people punching him.

Defense will argue the 1st guy did significant damage.
 

Trueblue25

Cali Award Magistrate
Joined
Apr 16, 2013
Messages
23,237
Like
35,127
Am i the only person that read 2 different people punched him within minutes?

I don't think I've ever been punched in my face outside of stupid kid fake boxing in my entire life. at least never that i can remember. Let alone twice in 1 day. Let alone twice because i was bothering people for a commotion that i allegedly started. Maybe he caused people to be mad at him? Did they "need" to punch him? Probably not - but maybe he was acting a fool and bothering people and slamming on cars.
The drunk guy or the coach? I haven’t seen that
 

CuseFaninVT

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
24,356
Like
29,975
Why not? Szabo lost everything he has over that 1 punch, with no opportunity to get any of it back ever. People make mistakes, but they also have to be prepared to suffer the consequences of their actions.

World would be a much better place if people's first instinct when they get annoyed wasn't to hit, shoot or stab someone.
Trayvon Martin agrees.

If the coach was in his car, he crossed the line when he reached for the door handle.
 

qdawgg

All American
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
6,154
Like
6,430
"A local resident heard the ruckus and came out of his home to confront Szabo, who then punched that person in the face, according to the sources."
Thanks, I've probably read 6 - 8 articles and hadn't seen that at all. I'm probably reading the same AP article from all 6 - 8 papers lol.
 

SUbear

Starter
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
1,680
Like
1,439
Or banging on multiple cars with multiple people punching him.

Defense will argue the 1st guy did significant damage.
Under NY law none of that is a defense for second degree manslaughter. No intent is necessary by the perp and self defense is the only legitimate defense under this scenerio. The drunk being annoying or banging on your car is not a defense. You may have a case for defense if you can prove you were defending a third party from physical assault.
This is just a terrible thing for all involved, but the coach is in major trouble.
The things you mention may apply as extenuating circumstances at time of sentencing, should he be convicted.
 
Last edited:

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
The drunk guy or the coach? I haven’t seen that
THis is from the article posted in the original post. Which was also the 1st article I read on the subject so it certainly swayed me to think Szabo isnt exactly an innocent victim (NOT THAT HE DESERVED TO DIE THOUGH)

"Szabo, 35, banged multiple cars in front of 41-10 29th St. at around 1:15 a.m., sources said.

A local resident heard the ruckus and came out of his home to confront Szabo, who then punched that person in the face, according to the sources.

Jones then approached Szabo and slugged him — causing him to fall to the ground and hit his head on the pavement.

Szabo was taken to the hospital in critical condition and succumbed to his injuries on Tuesday."
 

CuseFaninVT

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
24,356
Like
29,975
Another article I read said that the coach and a 17 year old witness helped Szabo to a sitting position after the fall, but then the coach sped away. He must have been drinking. Or fearful of the cops.
 

qdawgg

All American
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
6,154
Like
6,430
I never read the article posted here because I had read about this already but this is the article and type of article I had read numerous times which had formed my opinion on the situation.

"A person familiar with the investigation told The Associated Press that Szabo may have been drunkenly banging on car windows before Jones allegedly confronted him. The person spoke on the condition of anonymity because the person was not allowed to speak publicly.

The coach got out, followed Szabo to the sidewalk, clocked him and sped off, police said. Szabo never regained consciousness and was taken off life support on Tuesday."


I guess we'll see how it all plays out. I looked last night and this morning and what appears to be more the more "updated" articles, I haven't read anything about Szabo punching someone before being punched by the coach. So I don't know if it's just not being reported now, witness statements were initially mixed up, or something else.

https://abc11.com/wake-forest-university-asst-basketball-coach-charged-in-new-york-punch-death/3918094/
 

Cheriehoop

Moderator
Joined
Aug 17, 2011
Messages
7,838
Like
17,731
Only mention I saw was the guy punching someone, but not him getting punched by anyone but the coach. Didn't see it mentioned in other articles. Haven't read where Szabo was punched by anyone else before the coach that CuseFanAtl posted about.

From this article:
Report: Wake Forest assistant charged in deadly New York City attack on a tourist


"Among the cars Szabo allegedly approached was one driven by Jones, which led to their confrontation. The Post reported that Szabo was “apparently drunk” at the time of the incident and had already punched a local resident who had come outside to see who was causing such a ruckus. "
 

CuseFaninVT

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
24,356
Like
29,975
Wake Forest assistant basketball coach arrested after single punch kills marketing exec in N.Y.

An anonymous 17-year-old witness told PIX 11 on Wednesday that he helped the SUV’s driver to prop Szabo upright before the ambulance came, so that he would stop choking on his own blood. But before the paramedics showed up, the driver had fled the scene.

Why was the coach there in the first place? Was he waiting on someone that he thought he may have to defend from this drunk guy?

Stay in the car people...
 

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
Only mention I saw was the guy punching someone, but not him getting punched by anyone but the coach. Didn't see it mentioned in other articles. Haven't read where Szabo was punched by anyone else before the coach that CuseFanAtl posted about.

From this article:
Report: Wake Forest assistant charged in deadly New York City attack on a tourist


"Among the cars Szabo allegedly approached was one driven by Jones, which led to their confrontation. The Post reported that Szabo was “apparently drunk” at the time of the incident and had already punched a local resident who had come outside to see who was causing such a ruckus. "
Yeah and actually the more i read what was in the NYPost - i may have misread that as thinking the local resident punched Szabo. when in fact it was Szabo who punched him. If that's the case, that probably helps the coach's case more anyway.

"A local resident heard the ruckus and came out of his home to confront Szabo, who then punched that person in the face, according to the sources. "

It also makes my comparison to puncher vs puncher and crime committed earlier in the thread a bit more interesting.
 

NineOneSeven

2018-19 Iggy Hoops Leader Scorer
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
21,140
Like
30,004
Pretty sad story. Also, a very freak accident. People get punched all the time. Unfortunately this was the perfect, negative storm that unfortunately took a man's life.
 

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
And don't flee the scene afterwards. Doubling down on bad moves.
Its too early to tell that. I feel like plenty of fights lead to someone leaving. Did he know that the guy dying? A punch is not known to be a deadly weapon. Even if he knocked him out cold - I don't want to keep harping on past sins (especially because i love the guy) but i've literally watched current Syracuse coach walk out of chucks after knocking a guy old absolutely cold with a chair.
 

CuseFaninVT

Living Legend
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
24,356
Like
29,975
Its too early to tell that. I feel like plenty of fights lead to someone leaving. Did he know that the guy dying? A punch is not known to be a deadly weapon. Even if he knocked him out cold - I don't want to keep harping on past sins (especially because i love the guy) but i've literally watched current Syracuse coach walk out of chucks after knocking a guy old absolutely cold with a chair.
He knew the guy was messed up enough to be choking on his own blood, such that he elevated his head to prevent further damage.
 

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
He knew the guy was messed up enough to be choking on his own blood, such that he elevated his head to prevent further damage.
just saw that... that certainly looks bad. To an extent that is panic setting in but I'll agree with Cheriehoop dont double down on the problem at that point though.
 

qdawgg

All American
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
6,154
Like
6,430
"An assistant Wake Forest University basketball coach could face murder charges now that the death of a man he fatally punched has been declared a homicide, officials said Friday.


Jamill Jones, 35, had already been charged with misdemeanor assault for punching Sabor Szabo during a confrontation in Long island City on Sunday. He was released on his own recognizance after a brief court hearing Thursday evening.

Officials said the charges against Jones could be upgraded during his next court appearance, which is set for October."


Florida tourist's death declared homicide, punchy basketball coach could face murder charges: police - NY Daily News
 

Brooky03

I hate you all
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
5,968
Like
9,270
The original version of the story was that Szabo was a little drunk and innocently looking for his Uber, knocked on a car door and got punched for it. Based on updated reports, that's not what happened.

Szabo apparently punched a man before being confronted by Jones and was loudly banging on multiple cars accordingly to multiple sources. It sounds like he was being quite the public nuisance, not just a drunk guy trying to find an Uber.

What we don't know is the interaction Jones had with Szabo before he punched him. If Jones witnessed Szabo banging on cars belligerently and witnessed him punch the other man, that's justification to get out of his car to intervene. So the argument that Jones should have stayed in his car goes out the window. If you witness somebody assault another person and you're in a position to stop the assailant, it's reasonably to confront him. That doesn't mean he had automatic justification to punch Szabo. But, if Szabo acted in a threatening manner towards Jones, physical intervention was likely warranted. If Jones was aware that Szabo had just punched another man, then he has justified reason to believe Szabo could try to punch him. If somebody is drunk and aggressive and you have reason to believe they're about to get physical with you, you have a right to defend yourself even in a non-'stand your ground' state. You don't have to wait for them to actually take a swing at you.

It seems like a lot of people are eager to believe Jones was simply annoyed that a man touched his car and punched and killed him for it. That's a possible explanation but far far less likely than Jones defending himself/others, imo. Admittedly, none of us are working with all of the facts, which is why I used "if" liberally.
 

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
It seems like a lot of people are eager to believe Jones was simply annoyed that a man touched his car and punched and killed him for it. That's a possible explanation but far far less likely than Jones defending himself/others, imo. Admittedly, none of us are working with all of the facts, which is why I used "if" liberally.
"occams razor" to me, this paragraph still makes the most sense. i'm not going to bet my house on it, but if i were a betting man - i agree with this.
 

qdawgg

All American
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Messages
6,154
Like
6,430
The original version of the story was that Szabo was a little drunk and innocently looking for his Uber, knocked on a car door and got punched for it. Based on updated reports, that's not what happened.
I'm not writing this as a way to argue but I've looked at stories all morning and all of the updated reports I've read are saying exactly what you wrote above. Other than people posting on here, I've yet to read anything written this morning that says Szabo had punched someone before being confronted by the WF coach.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm actually more perplexed that we are all looking online at news reports and seeing different stories. I've read nypost, nydailynews, 2 espn articles, a story from a local WF paper, and other random news stories (CNN, Fox, USA today). It's just interesting.

The fact the police upgraded this to a homicide this morning is pretty telling to me. Curious how this plays out because I hate the idea I've probably now read close to 30 articles and might not be seeing some information that is important to form an opinion but other people are seeing articles with information I'm not.
 

CusefanATL

2018 Iggy Post Season Record NCAA Winner
Joined
Aug 30, 2011
Messages
9,999
Like
10,590
I'm not writing this as a way to argue but I've looked at stories all morning and all of the updated reports I've read are saying exactly what you wrote above. Other than people posting on here, I've yet to read anything written this morning that says Szabo had punched someone before being confronted by the WF coach.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm actually more perplexed that we are all looking online at news reports and seeing different stories. I've read nypost, nydailynews, 2 espn articles, a story from a local WF paper, and other random news stories (CNN, Fox, USA today). It's just interesting.

The fact the police upgraded this to a homicide this morning is pretty telling to me. Curious how this plays out because I hate the idea I've probably now read close to 30 articles and might not be seeing some information that is important to form an opinion but other people are seeing articles with information I'm not.
The NYPOST certainly said that Szabo was involved with another punch. Its literally the article that started this thread and has been quoted ~5 times in this thread.
 

AZOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
13,232
Like
16,369
If the facts stay as is there’s no way those charges are not increased
 

AZOrange

Living Legend
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
13,232
Like
16,369
I'm not writing this as a way to argue but I've looked at stories all morning and all of the updated reports I've read are saying exactly what you wrote above. Other than people posting on here, I've yet to read anything written this morning that says Szabo had punched someone before being confronted by the WF coach.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm actually more perplexed that we are all looking online at news reports and seeing different stories. I've read nypost, nydailynews, 2 espn articles, a story from a local WF paper, and other random news stories (CNN, Fox, USA today). It's just interesting.

The fact the police upgraded this to a homicide this morning is pretty telling to me. Curious how this plays out because I hate the idea I've probably now read close to 30 articles and might not be seeing some information that is important to form an opinion but other people are seeing articles with information I'm not.
We live in an era where we have multiple sets of facts/truths. Surprised this is surprising.
 

Brooky03

I hate you all
Joined
Oct 29, 2012
Messages
5,968
Like
9,270
I'm not writing this as a way to argue but I've looked at stories all morning and all of the updated reports I've read are saying exactly what you wrote above. Other than people posting on here, I've yet to read anything written this morning that says Szabo had punched someone before being confronted by the WF coach.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, I'm actually more perplexed that we are all looking online at news reports and seeing different stories. I've read nypost, nydailynews, 2 espn articles, a story from a local WF paper, and other random news stories (CNN, Fox, USA today). It's just interesting.

The fact the police upgraded this to a homicide this morning is pretty telling to me. Curious how this plays out because I hate the idea I've probably now read close to 30 articles and might not be seeing some information that is important to form an opinion but other people are seeing articles with information I'm not.
Did the police upgrade the charge to homicide? The coroners report ruled it a homicide but that doesn't mean a homicide charge will follow.
 

Online statistics

Members online
212
Guests online
556
Total visitors
768

Top Bottom