Wake Postgame

[GHLF]

It’s just remarkable the difference in defensive effort and intensity we saw versus Houston compared to the disgraceful ole defense we saw today.
Has any player gotten better as the season has progressed? Kingz maybe?
This board is getting carried away regarding Donnie. Yes he’s inconsistent, not overly athletic, doesn’t go to the hole enough and at times soft. But he’s an excellent college player averaging 16 and 7 who will flourish with the right coaching. You may recall that Hodgson was his main recruiter at Alabama.

He is an absolutely horrific defender who lacks drive, He is an embarrassment defensively at this level. He certainly has deficiencies athletically and body composition wise however none of that is made up with effort. Kiyan simply is not ready at this level, If he does not quit I believe he can be serviceable

 

[kingtidge]

If Pitt beats us next Sunday, and the two teams each end up 6-12, what would the tiebreaker be?

I suppose Wake might also be involved at 6-12, in a 3 for 2 tiebreaker.

They automatically win all tiebreakers because they fired Heather Lyke and then we hired her...

 

[OrangeXtreme]

They automatically win all tiebreakers because they fired Heather Lyke and then we hired her...

She was the PTBNL in the Judah Mintz trade.

 

[blust2i3d4]

If we have a good coach, SU basketball should be always in top 10 or top 20 because of the size of the dome.

 

[SUforme]

It's ovah...

 

[IthacaMatt]

Outrebounded by 11 by one of the worst rebounding teams in the country…

I told people we needed a center when they put this roster together last fall.

Many people scoffed, and said that's not how the game is played anymore, with dominant big men.

Funny, but the good teams still seem to have 2 or 3 of them who can actually play, not just look big when they get off the bus.

How many games have we lost under Red and during the 'Boeheim Bunch' years, because we didn't have a quality center?

Oh, sure, Jesse Edwards put up numbers after a couple years, but his low post game was always a mess, and he traveled an awful lot when he got the ball with his back to the basket. He was far better facing the basket and attacking with one or two dribbles. And he could block shots, but he wasn't a guy you could count on to close out a game.

But otherwise, that's a big part of why we have been so poor.

 

[IthacaMatt]

i will give you a hint - he has 2 j's in his name

When he went out with about 7 minutes to go, Red had Kingz, George, Freeman and White on the floor.

We had 3 empty possessions (including that Donnie shot clock violation).

That's when it went from a 2 point to a 7 point deficit before Red put him back in.

That was Wake's working margin. They had not had a lead the whole game until just a play or two before JJ went out, and then we went down 7 in about 2 minutes, and it was over.

 

[sweetpea]

I hardly think the culture is bad because the head coach is from the SU family.
The culture is bad because Red is a bad coach and frankly has no clue how to inspire the team or hold them accountable.
Gerry turned the loser culture of Siena into a winning culture in 2 years.

Whether in or out of the SU family, the new coach has to change the culture to one of accountability, working hard, max effort and never surrender on the court.
If BH is the new head coach, hopefully that is a priority for him.

It is also vitally important when the team is being assembled to bring in a player who can be the unquestioned leader on the team and who can produce results in crunch time.
Right now, this team has literally no leader and never had one under Red.
Intangibles are important

Great post!

 

[IthacaMatt]

Or at all.

Yeah, they only combined for 15 assists, 5 rebounds, 4 steals, and only 4 turnovers.

That's not even a 4-1 assist to turnover ratio!

THEY SUCKED.

THEY ARE DEFINITELY THE REASON WE LOST.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I hope White and Kingz are back. The rest can leave. Feel awful for Fennell. What a waste of a year for him.

I think George will be better next year, if he comes back.
Him and Kingz is a pretty good backcourt, nice size, 2 guys who can drive or shoot the three. Both are pretty big guards, and can defend.

 

[IthacaMatt]

We need guys who can dribble by guys. George, Donnie, Kiyan ... nobody but JJ can use their dribble to get by a defender.

That's why he keeps getting minutes.
He makes the defense react and opens things up for other guys.
He had 5 assists tonight and absolutely did not force his offense.
When he was out, we were easier to defend.

 

[IthacaMatt]

He has weaknesses as a coach, but there's no denying that many players on this team have not played their hardest in every game this year, and have given up completely at this point. A coach can only light a fire so much.

Red never seemed to understand how to use the bench as a teaching tool.

After a poor effort play, a dumb play, sit down next to me, and I'll tell you what you did.

Boeheim would get angry and bench a guy for the rest of the half, but you don't have to go that hard at the guys if that's not your personality.

Steve Kerr isn't a yeller, but if you don't play hard you're going to sit.

 

[AZOrange]

I didn’t watch most of the game. But I see that Kyle got 27 minutes with zero shot attempts, 1 rebound and 0 blocks.

White had 12 points on 8 shots and 3 boards… and got 12 minutes.

Are we sure Red is human? He might be one of those very lifelike mannequins.

White scored 8 in a row and Red pulled him

 

[AZOrange]

JJs personal +/- today was about minus 52

 

[BigNastyJon]

I watched 0 of this game, and now that I’m in bed and woke up to pee, I checked the score. This has to have been the longest I’ve been unaware of an SU bball score since 1st grade. I wish I was kidding.

 

[bigmike]

As a fan, this is level 5 misery. That is all.

 

[TinyManInside]

I told people we needed a center when they put this roster together last fall.

Many people scoffed, and said that's not how the game is played anymore, with dominant big men.

Funny, but the good teams still seem to have 2 or 3 of them who can actually play, not just look big when they get off the bus.

How many games have we lost under Red and during the 'Boeheim Bunch' years, because we didn't have a quality center?

Oh, sure, Jesse Edwards put up numbers after a couple years, but his low post game was always a mess, and he traveled an awful lot when he got the ball with his back to the basket. He was far better facing the basket and attacking with one or two dribbles. And he could block shots, but he wasn't a guy you could count on to close out a game.

But otherwise, that's a big part of why we have been so poor.

Jesse is the best center we've had in ages. He wasn't perfect, but dissing on him when everyone since has been hot rotting garbage is... weird.

 

[hoopsupstate]

I think George will be better next year, if he comes back.
Him and Kingz is a pretty good backcourt, nice size, 2 guys who can drive or shoot the three. Both are pretty big guards.

I’m not sure about that. George doesn’t defend. He has a lot of fake effort on defense and Kingz is not a natural ball handler to play the two. He’s also been a turnstile on defense the past several games. On great teams they would both be bench pieces.

 

[Orangefan1]

I didn’t watch most of the game. But I see that Kyle got 27 minutes with zero shot attempts, 1 rebound and 0 blocks.

White had 12 points on 8 shots and 3 boards… and got 12 minutes.

Are we sure Red is human? He might be one of those very lifelike mannequins.

Red also pulled White out of the game when he was playing great and I was thinking why pull him? I don’t understand it

 

[Orangefan1]

Jesse is the best center we've had in ages. He wasn't perfect, but dissing on him when everyone since has been hot rotting garbage is... weird.

We should of paid him more money and called it a day

 

[23Zone]

Red also pulled White out of the game when he was playing great and I was thinking why pull him? I don’t understand it

Substitution logic all season

Hodgson

 

[Irt4su]

The Betsey over White at the end of the game made so little sense to me as well.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

White scored 8 in a row and Red pulled him

Red also pulled White out of the game when he was playing great and I was thinking why pull him? I don’t understand it

According to the radio, White asked to come out because he needed a little breather.

 

[Cusefan0307]

His defense has been steadily getting worse. He’s got the JJ and George “Blowby Syndrome.”

There’s a reason for that. He hurt his knee a few games ago. He’s asked to come out multiple games at certain points because of it. Notice the sleeve on his leg.

 

[Cusefan0307]

When he went out with about 7 minutes to go, Red had Kingz, George, Freeman and White on the floor.

We had 3 empty possessions (including that Donnie shot clock violation).

That's when it went from a 2 point to a 7 point deficit before Red put him back in.

That was Wake's working margin. They had not had a lead the whole game until just a play or two before JJ went out, and then we went down 7 in about 2 minutes, and it was over.

The strangest defense of a player I’ve ever seen. There’s excuses for him every game. We lost because we couldn’t get stops. No one could and he wasn’t helping there.