Washington vs Arizona St

[Orange Barrel]

Some seriously short sighted comments in this thread. Hop's career is in its infancy. JB still has a few years to go. But . . . yeah we've got it all figured out here.

 

[Cusefan0307]

overreactions aplenty

Arizona State is not good. They got some nice early season wins against Xavier and Kansas. That's good. But they're 4-6 in, optimistically, the 4th best conference in college basketball. It wouldn't be crazy for them to not even make the tourney.

Hop is doing great. Crushing expectations, in fact. But to say we have the wrong coach (meaning you're saying Hop is better than JB right now) is categorically stupid.

Did we not run an offense with Flynn at the helm? We didn't run an offense with GMac and Melo? The Andy and Wes team didn't run offense? JB plays a pro style that is reliant on playmakers. We don't have playmakers. It's a personnel/recruiting issue, not a strategy issue. Nobody is calling JB an offensive genius, he obviously hangs his hat on defense, but no offensive-minded coach would make this mashup of players into an even average offensive team. There's no PG and no post scorer. That'd be fine if the team had 3 point shooters, but they don't have those either.

Howard and Battle are more talented than Crisp and Nowell. Nowell is a freshman, top 70ish recruit and his numbers are better than Battle. The one advantage they have over us is a post prescence, but the rest of the guys are mehhhh.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

When Hop went 4-5 you people all wanted him run out of town.

Now you're all sorry he's gone.

 

[AZOrange]

We kept the wrong coach.

No no no Mase...remember we just needed Hop to head somewhere else to “prove” himself...

Lmao. Dummies

 

[Fly Rodder]

you people all wanted him run out of town.

Now you're all sorry he's gone.

Are these the same posters?

 

[AZOrange]

Remember when people thought ASU was a contender and loaded...?

 

[Alsacs]

When Hop went 4-5 you people all wanted him run out of town.

Now you're all sorry he's gone.

Way to generalize.
Hop was coaching JB’s team in JB’s style while leaving JB’s chair open.

Kaiser led the charge against Hop.
Go talk to him.
JB is why Hop left.
This season was suppose to be Jb’s Last year.
Hop wasn’t being allowed to shop for his own groceries.
Hop knew JB didn’t want out he left.
But yeah score cheap points and blame fans for Hop leaving.

 

[Cusefan0307]

No no no Mase...remember we just needed Hop to head somewhere else to “prove” himself...

Lmao. Dummies

There’s people here who would still rather have Buzz Williams smh.

 

[Alsacs]

Remember when people thought ASU was a contender and loaded...?

They are still a contender.
The gap between 5-40 isn’t large.
Villanova, Duke, Purdue, Arizona have the most talent.

 

[Alsacs]

No no no Mase...remember we just needed Hop to head somewhere else to “prove” himself...

Lmao. Dummies

Hop left because JB didn’t want to leave.
JB probably 5 years ago didn’t think he would still want to coach.
Hop left now because he didn’t want to force his mentor out and because the roster was mismanaged come out of the gate struggling and lose the fanbase patience.
If next year’s roster was loaded when Hop was here he might not have left.

JB didn’t even know Lydon signed with an agent last year at his extension PC after Hop left.

 

[MikeSU02]

We kept the wrong coach.

Agree... But, wow.

I've been on this board since 2001 and never thought I'd see this post.

Want to be clear - I'm in agreement.

 

[AZOrange]

When Hop went 4-5 you people all wanted him run out of town.

Now you're all sorry he's gone.

It was a terrible argument then and now...he’s not using his timeouts properly! He’s a deer in headlights! We need Shaka Smart! Ugh.

 

[Fly Rodder]

We need Shaka Smart!

I'd like to have Mo Bamba on SU ...

 

[DoctorBombay]

This thread is like...

 

[AZOrange]

I'd like to have Mo Bamba on SU ...

Yeah...but Shaka is still 14-8...

 

[Sherman20]

overreactions aplenty

Arizona State is not good. They got some nice early season wins against Xavier and Kansas. That's good. But they're 4-6 in, optimistically, the 4th best conference in college basketball. It wouldn't be crazy for them to not even make the tourney.

Hop is doing great. Crushing expectations, in fact. But to say we have the wrong coach (meaning you're saying Hop is better than JB right now) is categorically stupid.

Did we not run an offense with Flynn at the helm? We didn't run an offense with GMac and Melo? The Andy and Wes team didn't run offense? JB plays a pro style that is reliant on playmakers. We don't have playmakers. It's a personnel/recruiting issue, not a strategy issue. Nobody is calling JB an offensive genius, he obviously hangs his hat on defense, but no offensive-minded coach would make this mashup of players into an even average offensive team. There's no PG and no post scorer. That'd be fine if the team had 3 point shooters, but they don't have those either.

There’s no way the pac 12 is the 4th best conference in CBB. ACC, Big 12, Big East and SEC are all better. Big 10 is probably better too.

 

[Brooky03]

Howard and Battle are more talented than Crisp and Nowell. Nowell is a freshman, top 70ish recruit and his numbers are better than Battle. The one advantage they have over us is a post prescence, but the rest of the guys are mehhhh.

They play against more meh opponents in the Pac 12 than Howard and Battle do.

I don't know enough about Washington's roster to talk about each player individually, but if they have a real post presence and a real PG (not a big PG/SG hybrid), then I think that gives them the decided personnel advantage on offense. That said, I'd like our chances against Washington at home or at a neutral site.

 

[Brooky03]

There’s no way the pac 12 is the 4thbeat conference in CBB. ACC, Big 12, Big East and SEC are all better. Big 10 is probably better too.

I agree. I was trying to be nice.

 

[Cusefan0307]

They play against more meh opponents in the Pac 12 than Howard and Battle do.

I don't know enough about Washington's roster to talk about each player individually, but if they have a real post presence and a real PG (not a big PG/SG hybrid), then I think that gives them the decided personnel advantage on offense. That said, I'd like our chances against Washington at home or at a neutral site.

They have four quadrant 1 wins. We have 1.

 

[Brooky03]

They have four quadrant 1 wins. We have 1.

If Arizona State is quadrant 1, then lol at quadrants.

 

[Cusefan0307]

If Arizona State is quadrant 1, then lol at quadrants.

They beat Kansas who we lost to by 16.

 

[SoBeCuse]

They beat Kansas who we lost to by 16.

In Lawrence too. I’m a Pac-12 guy as most of you know but even I admit the conference is not good this year. But, ASU, barring a total collapse (granted they are heading there!) should get into the tourney and have the tools to do some real damage in that setting. Same with Arizona who you can argue has maybe the second most talent in the country next to Duke. USC has had injuries with Boatwright and Metu and those guys have been in/out of the lineup. They recently committed to playing harder on D. UW is playing great. It’s a four bid league max.

Our beloved ACC is not THAT good this year, however. These teams in the middle of the league on down are not good. VT, Miami, NC St, Louisville, Wake, us, GT, Pitt is as bad of a middle-bottom in P6, IMO. I think UNC and FSU are very overrated. ND is meh. I think only Duke has a chance to go to the F4 from our league. Virginia will get smoked by another team with athletic/better guards who can shoot like how Florida destroyed them.

 

[cuseinseattle]

They play against more meh opponents in the Pac 12 than Howard and Battle do.

I don't know enough about Washington's roster to talk about each player individually, but if they have a real post presence and a real PG (not a big PG/SG hybrid), then I think that gives them the decided personnel advantage on offense. That said, I'd like our chances against Washington at home or at a neutral site.

I love that you like our chances while in the same post acknowledging you don't know their roster. They have no PG they have a 6'1" 2G playing point. They don't have two players better than Tyus and FH but they have multiple people better than the everyone on our team outside of the top 3. Thybulle, Dickerson, Nowell are good. Also I love JB and I'm not saying that Hop is a better coach them him already. That would be ridiculous. Watching every game both teams have played however it does seem like Hop has his individual players improving more during the year and seems to be making more adjustments to put them in positions to be successful than we have. I always knew we would have a tough year so it is what it is. The whole you can't criticize anything Boeheim does without throwing out all his accomplishments gets really old.

 

[cuseinseattle]

In Lawrence too. I’m a Pac-12 guy as most of you know but even I admit the conference is not good this year. But, ASU, barring a total collapse (granted they are heading there!) should get into the tourney and have the tools to do some real damage in that setting. Same with Arizona who you can argue has maybe the second most talent in the country next to Duke. USC has had injuries with Boatwright and Metu and those guys have been in/out of the lineup. They recently committed to playing harder on D. UW is playing great. It’s a four bid league max.

Our beloved ACC is not THAT good this year, however. These teams in the middle of the league on down are not good. VT, Miami, NC St, Louisville, Wake, us, GT, Pitt is as bad of a middle-bottom in P6, IMO. I think UNC and FSU are very overrated. ND is meh. I think only Duke has a chance to go to the F4 from our league. Virginia will get smoked by another team with athletic/better guards who can shoot like how Florida destroyed them.

I love the ACC is murders row argument. I mean we have lost to G Tech, Wake and ND at home without their two best players.

 

[SoBeCuse]

overreactions aplenty

Arizona State is not good. They got some nice early season wins against Xavier and Kansas. That's good. But they're 4-6 in, optimistically, the 4th best conference in college basketball. It wouldn't be crazy for them to not even make the tourney.

Hop is doing great. Crushing expectations, in fact. But to say we have the wrong coach (meaning you're saying Hop is better than JB right now) is categorically stupid.

Did we not run an offense with Flynn at the helm? We didn't run an offense with GMac and Melo? The Andy and Wes team didn't run offense? JB plays a pro style that is reliant on playmakers. We don't have playmakers. It's a personnel/recruiting issue, not a strategy issue. Nobody is calling JB an offensive genius, he obviously hangs his hat on defense, but no offensive-minded coach would make this mashup of players into an even average offensive team. There's no PG and no post scorer. That'd be fine if the team had 3 point shooters, but they don't have those either.

edit: I've decried JB's offensive gameplans this year almost as much as the next guy. The high ball screens are dumb. But Georgia Tech exposed the players on this team for what they are. After the long break between games, the team came out and showed much better off-ball movement and the offense looked like it was finally starting to click. JB has a historically young team on his hands and it looked like he was finally able to get them to run a few extra wrinkles on offense after the added practice time.

That all stopped when GT put ball pressure on our guards and got in the faces of just about everybody. The players couldn't handle it because they don't have the skills/experience to beat ball pressure like that. The only way to beat a team that gets in your face like that, when your guards can't effectively penetrate, is with a playmaker and/or scorer in the post. Not having one of those is this team's biggest weakness. I don't know what a head coach could do on offense to overcome that.

Yeah. I’m mostly in this camp as well. There are just too many flaws and limitations. Still, there are trends that are a recurring theme year in/out in regards to bad basketball/bad IQ that are either not addressed or the aptitude is not there to learn them. I’ll only bring up one scenario. This happens over and over again regardless of roster. We had a bunch of shooters last year and it happened too much. Charging/plowing into a help defender. Over and over we plow into the help and put it in the officials’ hands to make these 50/50 calls. Just somebody make a goddamn extra pass. Somebody make themselves available when somebody else is doubled. Now this current cast of characters is limited for sure but this happens a LOT every season.

Also, like I mentioned, I agree that Boeheim is pretty much doing what he can with this team generally. Sure there are schematic things I loathe right now but I doubt another coach would make enough of a difference. Re: GTech. Tyus was THE only one getting by GTech. BTW, we are making them seem like a vaunted Oklahoma St. Tony Allen team, WVU currently, or Villanova. Even average PGs on Clemson, FSU, etc., are having no problems with GTech guards. I think Tyus playing PG most of the game against them would’ve been a better result. He made a couple of drives and dish. He also made some terrible layup attempts and, as per usual (lol), we saw the same issue above. Players not making themselves available on his drives, sigh. Frank against these kinds of teams (not that they are that good and/or even hound him that much) is a freaking ch!t show.