We’re now a mid-major

[PhatOrange]

We're not but ok. People only have the Syracuse view of these things, but a number of ACC schools had players jump around within conference. Now that would suck having these two go to FSU or Clemson. But go look at the moves kids are making. Syracuse is nothing special there are dozens of these moves happening. Factory to Factory, Factory to low P5, low P5 to Factory. Look at the school in the left hand column. Texas A&M had something like 20 players enter the portal.

from > going to
UVA > FSU
South Carolina > FSU
Alabama > Miami
NC State > Kentucky
Texas A&M > LSU
Nebraska > Michigan
Missouri > Georgia
Texas > Purdue
Arizona State > Michigan
FSU > Texas A&M
Texas A&M > Michigan State
Michigan > Iowa
Maryland > Alabama
Alabama > LSU

The above list is a small sample of good players moving around. We lost a couple of all-leaguers. So did a lot of other schools. We kept a couple to and we're adding factory freshman and 1 flyer. In the grand scheme of things we're pretty far from mid-major.

Syracuse
>LSU
>Ohio State
Alabama >
Notre Dame >
Nebraska >

 

[RF2044]

Looking at where people are transferring/going, Syracuse is officially a mid-major feeder school.
6, 7, 8 win seasons - at our peak - won’t compete against B10, SEC, and B12 programs - with way more cash and title aspirations.

At least on the basketball side, outside of a couple Oregon transfers, the destinations seem like downgrades.
But Duce going to LSU and J’Had to The OSU really makes me feel like a doormat.

The minor leagues of college football.

Mid-major is too harsh.

IMO, there is nothing surprising that the portal transfer / ability to transfer without having to sit out benefits factories, who can mine every other program out there for proven talent. That doesn't make us a mid-major -- it makes us < factory programs.

The key is replacing those players. I'm very unhappy that we lost Carter / Duce, but we replaced them with inbound portal transfers that blew our former players' offer lists away. Now -- they'll have to do it on the field, but we made out okay in that exchange on paper.

In fact, unlike a mid-major, we pulled talent from "higher order" programs like Notre Dame, Alabama, and Nebraska [historically, not recently].

The portal taketh, and the portal giveth away. If we're focused on the latter and accord ourselves well, we'll be fine. That's the new normal of the current rules -- it's devolved into out-and-out free agency.

Again, none of that should be a surprise.

 

[mscanlo]

Lower tier-Power 5 is a better categorization.

Agree with most on here. With the portal, Syracuse will be subject to lose a few rising stars. However, net net (i.e. transfers in), might not be too bad.

 

[hoopsupstate]

The bottom line is if we offer Duce and Carter what OSU and LSU offered, they would still be at Syracuse.

 

[OrangeDW]

Make coaches sit for a year too.

I’m good with that.

 

[djorange1989]

The bottom line is if we offer Duce and Carter what OSU and LSU offered, they would still be at Syracuse.

Not necessarily. A wee bit easier to win a title at their new schools, and if the money is the same, go big

 

[GoSU96]

The bottom line is if we offer Duce and Carter what OSU and LSU offered, they would still be at Syracuse.

Do you lose wax ,Gadsden, and who else? If carter really got 250k, it would be stupid to match. Up can replace his production with what’s on the roster and who you bring in

 

[Orangefizz]

Looking at where people are transferring/going, Syracuse is officially a mid-major feeder school.
6, 7, 8 win seasons - at our peak - won’t compete against B10, SEC, and B12 programs - with way more cash and title aspirations.

At least on the basketball side, outside of a couple Oregon transfers, the destinations seem like downgrades.
But Duce going to LSU and J’Had to The OSU really makes me feel like a doormat.

The minor leagues of college football.

Just curious, where would you put TCU?

 

[Whitey23]

(something for the kids)

 

[Scooch]

Horrible subject line, bad post.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We might lose some starters to the big programs, but we can and should get starters from G5s or FCSs. And we should get 2nd teamers from the big boys who could become stars if given the chance to play. Kids we would never have a chance at coming out of high school. And anyone who transfers to SU is stuck here until they graduate. Which is actually better than getting a talented HS kid who can leave at anytime. I think can be a net positive for SU.

 

[suorange08]

Focusing on the positives of Syracuse football is soooo much more fun than focusing on the negatives. Especially when the positives far outweigh the negatives like they do this offseason.

Our ceiling is playing in Charlotte this December. Who cares if a couple guys left for blue bloods? We took in transfers from blue bloods. Our OC is nationally recognized as a soon-to-be stud. Our DC invented the version of the defense that we run. We are getting dudes drafted and retaining tons of difference making talent.

We're going to be very good this fall. Be happy and optimistic. I'm having fun.

The issue with the transfers is that we know what we lost, and have no idea what we are getting in the incoming transfers since they never played. It's ok to question it and freak out some about that.

This staff has done a good job of evaluating transfers, so I'm in the camp of trusting them, though it is still disconcerting to place hopes on players we haven't seen play at this level.

 

[cusefan88]

CFB Playoff is expanding to 12 and Cuse plays in a P5 Conference. Have a legit chance 2 or 3 times per decade to get into the playoff is not mid-major.

The 90s are over. Accept where Syracuse is and hope for the best.

 

[Pyle]

So yeah this sucks but I think part of the complaining comes from this mindset that we were somehow succeeding overall in recruiting over the past 20 years. We aren't. We get a few gems but overall, we aren't winning the croots game as it was being played. We may lose a piece of filet/ribeye here and there but I think we will get way more sirloin than top round moving forward, unlike the game of the 00's/10's.

 

[atlanticuse]

sorry for dropping a turd and running in this thread, but having watched the Lions yesterday, I feel we're them - a chance to be spoiler (i.e. vs. Clemson) - not a chance to make the playoffs (metaphor for top-tier bowl).

And the folks saying "well we've got 'Bama transfers" - these aren't top-of-the-depth-chart guys.

Yet ours WERE. We "lost" (if you can call it that) guys who are the identity of the team. Losing Chestnut to LSU -- what if we lost Andre Cisco?

 

[Scooch]

sorry for dropping a turd and running in this thread, but having watched the Lions yesterday, I feel we're them - a chance to be spoiler (i.e. vs. Clemson) - not a chance to make the playoffs (metaphor for top-tier bowl).

And the folks saying "well we've got 'Bama transfers" - these aren't top-of-the-depth-chart guys.

Yet ours WERE. We "lost" (if you can call it that) guys who are the identity of the team. Losing Chestnut to LSU -- what if we lost Andre Cisco?

There is zero comparison between the NFL and college. Less than zero, to be more accurate.

Every player who commits to a 'Bama-type program is someone we'd take, period. So it's great that we're getting some.

 

[GoSU96]

sorry for dropping a turd and running in this thread, but having watched the Lions yesterday, I feel we're them - a chance to be spoiler (i.e. vs. Clemson) - not a chance to make the playoffs (metaphor for top-tier bowl).

And the folks saying "well we've got 'Bama transfers" - these aren't top-of-the-depth-chart guys.

Yet ours WERE. We "lost" (if you can call it that) guys who are the identity of the team. Losing Chestnut to LSU -- what if we lost Andre Cisco?

So is your expectation that SU should have 100% retention rate?

 

[kcsu]

right now it's a scrap fest to say the least to put a solid roster together every year and regardless of how one feels about high school recruiting dino has proven he can hold things together and he knows the objective. Guys will come and go. Agree 100% with KCSU, gotta make the kids that truly are the difference makers the portal guys as right now they are the most stable because they have already transferred once. We must be successful in the portal to offset defections. It's going to be the lifeline of the program. We also have to fight tooth and nail to retain our solid current players as many as we can, we will lose some and win some here and that people are just going to have to accept. Is what it is. Money talks.

Not for the timid and calling Syracuse a mid major when they have a seat at the P5 table is exactly that. Buckle up. We have never been able to compete with the factories off the field in any shape or form

Bowl games or bust minimum objective every year moving forward

Spot on. Also look what we have accomplished in 1 year with a competent staff.
Dino is well positioned as the CEO and we have an excellent staff. I think Beck and Long might actually be better than Doc and White.
Spend NIL on retention. Cast a solid net in our key areas and reload with young portal talent.

 

[Pyle]

sorry for dropping a turd and running in this thread, but having watched the Lions yesterday, I feel we're them - a chance to be spoiler (i.e. vs. Clemson) - not a chance to make the playoffs (metaphor for top-tier bowl).

And the folks saying "well we've got 'Bama transfers" - these aren't top-of-the-depth-chart guys.

Yet ours WERE. We "lost" (if you can call it that) guys who are the identity of the team. Losing Chestnut to LSU -- what if we lost Andre Cisco?

Su is nothing like the Lions. If SU had 1 bowl victory since 1992 they would be like the Lions. Trust me, I'm a fan of both teams. That said, Lions are in a better spot to compete for the division next year than SU is.

 

[cuse309]

Unproven or not we have picked up kids from Alabama, Nebraska and Notre Dame so far this off season? In past few years we have got receivers from Michigan State, and Maryland? Far from a feeder school. The ACC next year will have two pre season top 10 teams and probably a 3rd in top 25. I don’t think that’s the minor league compared to big 12?

Every doormat team is picking up players from similar schools you listed.. We aren't exclusive. The portal has made most middling programs excited about the 4star guys they're getting. I'm not sure it's really separating us from anyone.

 

[Dick_in_MI]

Looking at where people are transferring/going, Syracuse is officially a mid-major feeder school.
6, 7, 8 win seasons - at our peak - won’t compete against B10, SEC, and B12 programs - with way more cash and title aspirations.

At least on the basketball side, outside of a couple Oregon transfers, the destinations seem like downgrades.
But Duce going to LSU and J’Had to The OSU really makes me feel like a doormat.

The minor leagues of college football.

We are not a mid-major. We are a P-5 program, albeit one that has found consistency hard to come by. Only the future will tell us whether we can consistently be a lousy, mediocre, or good P-5 program but we are not a mid-major. We may eventually not be able to keep up with the arms race that currently is moving at the speed of light. At that point, we may indeed drop to mid-major status by choice. But that's not where we currently are.

 

[cuse309]

Half the roster needs to be kids who transfer to SU. We need to offer every solid 4 star and up kid in our recruiting territories. Keep tabs on them and be in position if they decide to transfer. Juco also has to become a priority. HS kids are a crap shoot and if they pan out we know what can happen.

Yup. TCU built tonight's football team from the portal from what I understand. Haven't looked into it, but I've heard it mentioned.

 

[Pyle]

Doesn't anyone think that this whole portal/NIL thing is like a new bike? IT's all shiny and everyone wants to ride until it's not shiny anymore. My point is once guys like Chestnut keep getting poached, as more and more don't take over that #1 spot on the 2 deep then word will get around that maybe it's better to stay a big fish in a little pond where you can make visible waves. I think there will be churn at the very top but I think the rest of this calms down in 3-5 years.

 

[kcsu]

Here is another point.
During the last 20 years we have been piss poor. So the old system certainly didn't benefit Syracuse. It cant get any worse under the new system. Personally i think we will do much better going forward.

 

[Cuse181]

sorry for dropping a turd and running in this thread, but having watched the Lions yesterday, I feel we're them - a chance to be spoiler (i.e. vs. Clemson) - not a chance to make the playoffs (metaphor for top-tier bowl).

And the folks saying "well we've got 'Bama transfers" - these aren't top-of-the-depth-chart guys.

Yet ours WERE. We "lost" (if you can call it that) guys who are the identity of the team. Losing Chestnut to LSU -- what if we lost Andre Cisco?

Okay, and? Like what is the argument? It’s not fair that the minor leagues of the NFL get the best players?