We’re now a mid-major

[shandeezy7]

He redshirted. And his decision to leave Nebraska might have had little to do with where he stood on the depth chart -- maybe he just didn't like Lincoln, or he wanted to shift closer to home, or decided to bail when the HC he committed to got let go.

Again, I understand your point -- he's unproven relative to Carter / Duce -- but he was an elite 2022 recruit. Not just a kid with potential -- a kid that ALL of the blue blood football programs pursued and would have gladly welcomed.

The question is, why aren't you choosing to view it through that lens?

I fully acknowledge that maybe he doesn't end up being as good as Carter. Or maybe he busts. But guys like Gould [and Bellamy] have the potential to have both higher floors and higher ceilings than the players we've lost, as evidenced by their eye-popping offer lists.

That’s definitely a positive way to look at things, but replacing proven starters, all-ACC caliber guys (who otherwise would be staying at SU most likely if not for the new system) with unproven commodities on an annual basis doesn’t really seem like an advantageous situation to be in. I recognize that we aren’t the only program being affected in this manner, but I still fail to see how the positives outweigh the negatives for our program as things currently stand.

 

[RF2044]

That’s definitely a positive way to look at things, but replacing proven starters, all-ACC caliber guys (who otherwise would be staying at SU most likely if not for the new system) with unproven commodities on an annual basis doesn’t really seem like an advantageous situation to be in. I recognize that we aren’t the only program being affected in this manner, but I still fail to see how the positives outweigh the negatives for our program as things currently stand.

No, it's a pragmatic way to look at things.

Add more talent than you lose, upgrade roster.

Mission accomplished with those three relative to the three we lost.

 

[shandeezy7]

No, it's a pragmatic way to look at things.

Add more talent than you lose, upgrade roster.

Mission accomplished with those three relative to the three we lost.

We have upgraded our roster? Seems like an orange colored glasses opinion versus reality. It could end up playing out that way, I suppose, but we lost high quality starters and replaced them with guys that have recruiting stars but have proven nothing. If given the choice, I’m taking the proven guys 10 times outta 10.

 

[RF2044]

We have upgraded our roster? Seems like an orange colored glasses opinion versus reality. It could end up playing out that way, I suppose, but we lost high quality starters and replaced them with guys that have recruiting stars but have proven nothing. If given the choice, I’m taking the proven guys 10 times outta 10.

Sorry, shandeezy, love your posts in general, but I am not wearing orange goggles. I outlined the difference between the offer list of the two defensive backs we lost compared to the two we gained, and Linton versus the defensive line that we gained.

The facts speak for themselves.

Net-net, we've gained more than we lost across all positional units, except for wide receiver.

Fingers crossed that we can add quality players to a depleted unit that lost Alfred and Jackson.

At the other positions, we've improved relative to what we've lost.

Happy to break it down in more detail to dispel half-baked analysis, if that proves useful.

 

[shandeezy7]

Sorry, shandeezy, love your posts in general, but I am not wearing orange goggles. I outlined the difference between the offer list of the two defensive backs we lost compared to the two we gained, and Linton versus the defensive line that we gained.

The facts speak for themselves.

Net-net, we've gained more than we lost across all positional units, except for wide receiver.

Fingers crossed that we can add quality players to a depleted unit that lost Alfred and Jackson.

At the other positions, we've improved relative to what we've lost.

Happy to break it down in more detail to dispel half-baked analysis, if that proves useful.

Once a guy has experience actually playing D1 college football, I couldn't care less about what their offer list or stars were coming out of high school. NFL teams don't draft guys because they were a 5 star recruit. We lost two defensive back starters to Ohio State and LSU and a rotation D-lineman to Texas Tech. Those guys must be pretty damn good - and they've proven it in Power 5 college football.

In return, we got some highly rated guys out of high school that couldn't crack the rotation at their respective schools. Could it work out for us? Sure, I guess. But I fail to see how we've definitively gained more than we've lost when what we lost were proven commodities that went to top end college football programs while the guys that we have brought in have barely played any snaps at all at the collegiate level.

 

[RF2044]

Once a guy has experience actually playing D1 college football, I couldn't care less about what their offer list or stars were coming out of high school. NFL teams don't draft guys because they were a 5 star recruit. We lost two defensive back starters to Ohio State and LSU and a rotation D-lineman to Texas Tech. Those guys must be pretty damn good - and they've proven it in Power 5 college football.

In return, we got some highly rated guys out of high school that couldn't crack the rotation at their respective schools. Could it work out for us? Sure, I guess. But I fail to see how we've definitively gained more than we've lost when what we lost were proven commodities that went to top end college football programs while the guys that we have brought in have barely played any snaps at all at the collegiate level.

"Couldn't crack a rotation" = false.

They redshirted.

Agree to disagree. College sports is about attrition. Every team loses good players every year -- to graduation, to injury, and now to the portal -- and replacing those players with capable alternatives is something that has to occur every year. "Couldn't care less" about offer lists is convenient to your argument, because it overlooks the caliber of the replacement portal transfers we brought in.

I certainly acknowledge that we've lost proven commodities, and that the DBs were pretty darn good. But the name of the game is acquiring talent.

And from that standpoint, we've landed players with higher ceilings -- which means that the talent level is improving.

Except at WR. Alford / Jackson departures have depleted that positional unit.

Again, landing 4 star recruits is a good thing. You'll see.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We're not but ok. People only have the Syracuse view of these things, but a number of ACC schools had players jump around within conference. Now that would suck having these two go to FSU or Clemson. But go look at the moves kids are making. Syracuse is nothing special there are dozens of these moves happening. Factory to Factory, Factory to low P5, low P5 to Factory. Look at the school in the left hand column. Texas A&M had something like 20 players enter the portal.

from > going to
UVA > FSU
South Carolina > FSU
Alabama > Miami
NC State > Kentucky
Texas A&M > LSU
Nebraska > Michigan
Missouri > Georgia
Texas > Purdue
Arizona State > Michigan
FSU > Texas A&M
Texas A&M > Michigan State
Michigan > Iowa
Maryland > Alabama
Alabama > LSU

The above list is a small sample of good players moving around. We lost a couple of all-leaguers. So did a lot of other schools. We kept a couple to and we're adding factory freshman and 1 flyer. In the grand scheme of things we're pretty far from mid-major.

Syracuse
>LSU
>Ohio State
Alabama >
Notre Dame >
Nebraska >

Moving On GIF - Moving On Up - Discover & Share GIFs

Click to view the GIF

tenor.com

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I understand the point of view you're expressing, but I think your perspective doesn't apply the correct lens on the transfers we brought in.

We've gone through this analysis before. Jaeden Gould had COMMITABLE offers from Alabama, USC, Penn State, Michigan, Notre Dame, Clemson Florida State, Texas -- to go along with dozens of offers from programs like Tennessee, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, A&M, Florida, and on and on. Let that list sink in before you keep reading.

Jayden Bellamy had offers from Notre Dame, Clemson, Penn State, Ohio State, LSU, and Michigan -- to go along with dozens of offers from the likes of Oklahoma, Wisconsin, Tennessee, Nebraska, etc.

Braylen Ingraham had committable offers out of high school from Alabama [where he ended up], Georgia, Ohio State, Michigan, LSU, Clemson, and Texas to go along with Auburn, Florida, Oklahoma, Florida State, Wisconsin, and many others.

You can't lament losing players to bigger programs, and then dismiss what the coaching staff has done bringing in transfer replacements with BETTER offer lists than the guys we lost.

How will it shake out in the end? We'll see -- but our fanbase would have gone berserk if we'd landed any one of those players out of HS, and we landed three.

Which is why -- contrary to the theme of your OP -- the portal is an opportunity for Syracuse to elevate the overall talent level. We're going to lose guys, too -- but that doesn't mean that the sky is falling. Every year is going to be out-and-out free agency.

Redirect Notice

 

[shandeezy7]

"Couldn't crack a rotation" = false.

They redshirted.

Agree to disagree. College sports is about attrition. Every team loses good players every year -- to graduation, to injury, and now to the portal -- and replacing those players with capable alternatives is something that has to occur every year. "Couldn't care less" about offer lists is convenient to your argument, because it overlooks the caliber of the replacement portal transfers we brought in.

I certainly acknowledge that we've lost proven commodities, and that the DBs were pretty darn good. But the name of the game is acquiring talent.

And from that standpoint, we've landed players with higher ceilings -- which means that the talent level is improving.

Except at WR. Alford / Jackson departures have depleted that positional unit.

Again, landing 4 star recruits is a good thing. You'll see.

I'm not dismissing the fact that the guys we're bringing in could be very good players for us, and I hope that we utilize the portal to our advantage. That being said, gun to my head would I rather have Ja'Had and Duce or Gould and Bellamy on the Cuse roster next year? I'm taking the proven commodities 10 out of 10 times, regardless of high school rankings and especially in light of the fact that Ohio State and LSU recognized that talent and poached them.

 

[RF2044]

I'm not dismissing the fact that the guys we're bringing in could be very good players for us, and I hope that we utilize the portal to our advantage. That being said, gun to my head would I rather have Ja'Had and Duce or Gould and Bellamy on the Cuse roster next year? I'm taking the proven commodities 10 out of 10 times, regardless of high school rankings and especially in light of the fact that Ohio State and LSU recognized that talent and poached them.

That's fair.

I agree on Carter. Duce [my opinion only] is a bit overrated by our fanbase.

But gun to my head, I would rather roll the dice with higher rated players with elite offer lists. Because as studies have shown, getting better players generally equates to improved program performance. And using the portal to reel in players that we wouldn't ever land out of HS is EXACTLY how a program like SU should view the portal -- as an opportunity to land highly rated players on the rebound, supplement a quality base, and elevate the overall talent level in the locker room. And that's exactly what the coaches are doing.

Losing Carter / Chestnut hurts. Landing elite prospects to take their place takes a lot of the sting out of the departures.

Losing Linton -- an undersized platoon DE -- and replacing him with a much bigger kid with similarly elite offers to Gould / Bellamy is a net gain. Especially in light of us already having proven commodities like Geer, Okechukwu, and Jobity running it back at DE. Is there a risk involved due to Ingraham's injury history? Sure. But risk isn't always bad -- it can also be an opportunity, if the player pans out.

Personally, I'm more worried about losing players like Tucker, Jones, and Williams. But I think we're going to be equipped to handle those departures more from within the program than via the portal.

For example, Allen looked very solid in the bowl game. Jones is immensely talent, but his departure will be more than partially offset by the return of Thompson. Williams... well, let's just say that Bellamy better live up to the hype.

 

[MSOrange]

 

[721Comstock]

Isn’t The Ewe always amongst the most optimistic and overhyped programs every offseason?

And then the actual season happens.

And they underwhelm.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[orange79]

They must have deemed RutgersAl's posts 'unreliable data' and not used it.

 

[tep624]

Rivals Transfer Portal Rankings - I'm sure this is the typical Rivals ranking job (Syracuse results in being cast into oblivion) but a data point nonetheless.

 

[shandeezy7]

 

[orangepassion]

With Alabama losing their DC to Ole Miss, does that make Alabama a Mid-major?

 

[hoopsupstate]

With Alabama losing their DC to Ole Miss, does that make Alabama a Mid-major?

Of course! They didn’t win the national championship two years in a row. How can Saban still have a job?

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

A+M is the real head scratcher here.